Montbell Super Stretch bag

Jonathan, i don't own the #4, but i do own the #5 and the #3. I'm guessing based upon my experience w/the #3 and the #5, that the #4 would be, for me, a +35F bag with base & mid layers (no high-loft insul. layer, but wearing 1oz down socks over PD socks and a PD Beanie or a Med. wt. or heavier Balaclava). Add my Coccoon and some thermawrap pants and I'd prob. go to +30F. I'm a cold sleeper. My MB SSDH#3 has more loft than my WM Highlite bag – i've measured them. The #4 might have about the same loft as my Highlite which is for me a properly rated +35F bag w/o high-loft (which won't work in that too tightly, for me, cut bag).

Maybe a VERY WARM sleeper could get the #4 down into the mid-20's with some added hi-loft garments? Don't know, but i'm a bit skeptical. Remember, i don't think too many of us would consider the #4 a +32F bag. Unless i don't understand MB's temp chart for their bags, they only consider the #4 an ~+37F-38F bag FOR COMFORTABLE SLEEPING. Add your hi-loft & you're probably, more realistically, IMO, looking at +32F at best, but if you're a VERY WARM sleeper maybe upper 20's with the hi-loft. Don't know 'bout pushin' it to mid-20's though. Again, i'm just guessin' here since i don't own the #4 & i'm a cold sleeper. The #4 wouldn't work for me though at the temps you want to take it to.

I'm way too short to even guess at your 5' 10" question. Sorry, i can't be more help. BTW, MB bags are my favorites, so keep that in mind if you re-read my above assessment.

I own a #3 (30F) and #7 (50F).

I see myself as an average sleeper, and I find MB's "comfort temp rating" to be spot on. MB rates the #4 as comfy to 38F. I have NEVER tempted fate by taking my MB bags down to their "minimum usable temp".

Given that you use your 32F to the mid 20's, then I would say that the #4 will be good to the low 30's — using similar sleeping arrangement.

Truth be told, I think the No. 4 might be a tad too cold for true 3-season use…

I love my MontBell U.L. Super Stretch #2 bag…
and I am a cold sleeper.
I would say go with the #3 or #2 for a 3 season bag.
I just hated the color was all…its a girl thing I guess.

I am 5'8" and got the regular length. I wish I had gotten the long…because the way the bag is designed with a bottom adjuster you can place your camera, batteries, things you need to keep warm there and not have them get tangled up in your feet. Plus you can stuff the entire bag into the last baffle, eliminating the need for a stuff sack.

Reading Gail's post above…

I'm 5'9" and the regular length is plenty — I am quite sure that at 5'10", you will be just fine. No worries about toes pressing against the end.

So, get the long version if you want the option of keeping things warm at the foot end — but the regular is fine for your height.

I like the weight of the #7 and I think it would do well in the late spring and early fall temps here in the smokies if I take my Down jacket as well, or just my down vest. I just thought if the #4 could be used down to the low 30s I might just go with it. I'm still on the fence. Thanks for your advice. No one at my local outfitter uses Montbell, but since purchasing the Alpine Light Down Jacket and reading so many positive things here, I look to them first when it comes to quality gear that is often cheaper than some other big name companies.

In my mind, "3 seasons" can go down to the mid 20's. But if the low 30's is the lowest that you expect to encounter, then the #4 plus putting on the UL Down (and something else for your legs) — will be fine.

If you are separately thinking about getting the No. 7 for summer use, then I would suggest getting MontBell Thermal Sheet instead. Basically, it's a hoodless #7 — and weighs just 13 oz! To me, a hood just gets in the way during summertime, and without the hood, the Thermal Sheet can be opened up and used as "a quilt with a footbed". The only caveat is that the Thermal Sheet is geared to folks with slim to medium build. It fits me just fine — and I'm 5'9" and I weigh 150 lbs.

I have the synthetic version of the #4. It's a mid-thirties bag for me while wearing a base layer. Any colder than that and I slip on a puffy jacket. Not sure if I could take it to the mid-twenties, though. I'm 5'9" and have a bit of length left, so I think 5'10" is accurate.

I don't have a Super Stretch bag but my concern would be whether the SS would compress the loft of your jacket. Of course you could always place the jacket over your chest on the outside of the bag, if you don't toss and turn much.

Another thing to think about is a margin of safety. Three seasons to me is 20 degrees. So I ended up going with a 20-degree bag and will use a jacket if things turn nasty.

I have really poor circulation so I ended up going with Western Mountaineering because of their reputation for being conservative in their ratings. As a test I underfed myself and slept on a concrete patio in temperatures between 22 and 20.5. I was cozy wearing thin long underwear, a thin balaclava, a dust mask (to minimize heat loss from respiration), and socks.

BTW that MB Alpine Light Down jacket is sweet. Will has a partial review of it at Backpacking Gear Test.

http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Clothing/Jackets/MontBell%20Alpine%20Light%20Jacket/Will%20Rietveld/Test%20Report%20by%20Will%20Rietveld/

I own a #3 long and two #7s, a long and an alpine. The #3 is my three season bag, and I really could not consider the 7s as such. Since your choice is 4 or 7, I recommend the 4, and the 'long' version. It gives you many more options for a little more weight:
– more room to layer clothing
– emergency room for two
– room for gear which needs to stay warm and/or get dry
– able to loan bag to taller friends
– open the bag as a huge down quilt at home :)
– many more as you will discover

I see you already know about the drawcord on the last baffle. It is a convenient way to bundle the sleeping bag inside the tent, or for placement in a large dry-bag.

PS, I own the MB Light Alpine Down jacket, and the inner baffles touch the jacket bag-length wise, and only compress it maybe 5%?

Let us know what you choose?

I am 6 feet and the regular #5 bag works for me down to 35F in a tent.

Steve, the SS will NOT compress loft of either the jacket's insulation or the bag's insulation. It is a very gentle s-t-r-e-t-c-h (nothing at all like a rubbere band; it's so gentle that if a similar springy resistance was used in your pants waist band, your pants would be falling down all of the time). The stretch feature allows both to loft as fully as might otherwise be possible. In fact, in this respect the SS is far better than more traditional bags. Two reasons for this:

1. it eliminates most of the extra air around one's body that one's body heat would otherwise have to warm up.

2. the too tight cut of many high-end UL mummy bags (attempting to save weight) would produce FAR MORE insulation compression than the SS system.

i know both of these facts from first hand experience using both a WM Highlite and various MB bags (both down & synth).

in the past 2+ yrs this same question/observation has been raised by other. it has been always raised by those who have NEVER used the SSS (super stretch system).

nothing wrong, IMO, of raising the issue however. good thinking on your part.

Jonathan, I just spent the night in my back yard with my synthetic #4, inside a tent, and on a 3/8" foam pad+inflatable torso pad. The low was 28F. My experience last night confirms my previous experience and that of the other posters in this thread. About 2:30 AM I had to slip on my Moonstone Cirrus jacket to stay warm. Just before dawn, I was a bit chilled, even wearing my jacket. I wouldn't take the #4 out in temperatures below 30F.

Thanks PJ for clarifying. I do think the MB bags are nicely designed. And was seriously considering a #2 until I read this report by Will Rietveld about the #3.

http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Sleep%20Gear/Sleeping%20Bags/MontBell%20Alpine%20Down%20Hugger%203/Will%20Rietveld/Long%20Term%20Report/

Being near the MontBell store in Boulder I dropped by to inspect at #2 they had in stock. When I laid it out on the bag table I was disappointed to find several baffles in the chest area that looked like they were short on down. I verifyed this by placing a hand below and above the area and feeling it, then compared it to nearby areas.

They obviously have (or had) some quality control problems with their bags. So that ruled them out for me.

That said, if I were Jonathan I would check the return policy on the bag before I ordered and try to test it in the conditions you expect.

Thanks for the advice. I just want a new sleeping bag and don't know if should by a new three season or just get a summer bag. To be honest, I am happy with how my current bag performs in 3 season conditions. So maybe i should just look for a summer bag, like the #7 or the thermal bag. Any other light summer bags out there that people would recommend? I've also considered making a synthetic quilt either a Ray-Way quilt or buying the materials from Thru-Hiker.

What kind of temps does summer mean to you? If it's 40-45, there are a lot of very light options out there for you, including the MontBell ones that you've already listed. Two "non-traditional" ones to consider:

Jacks R Better Stealth – down, 14oz, 1.5" loft, $200
Ray Way quilt – synthetic, ?oz, 1.5" loft, ~$70
new Cocoon 60 quilt – synthetic, 11oz, ?" loft, $?

The Stealth will be lighter, will pack smaller, and can be used as a serape, under a hammock, or on top of your bed at home. The Ray Way quilt works well (I made one myself), but the weight and large stuffed size might bother you eventually. However, you'll be $130 richer. The Cocoon quilt will no doubt be expensive, and you'd be waiting awhile.

Whatever you decide, you might try to get something that could be cinched around you on top of your current 3 season bag. That combo plus winter clothes and a VB could take you to some low temps. Good luck!

Jonathan:

I'm assuming that you are of slim to medium build and no taller than 5'10" since you have added the Thermal Sheet to your list of consideration. If that's the case, then aside from being a great summer bag in and of itself (i.e. an honest 50F plus the full zip allows use as a bag or as a quilt w/ footbed) — its slim and hoodless design also makes it a great liner bag! Slipping it into your existing 3-season bag will boost the latter's temp rating by about 15F.

Using my Thermal Sheet along with my MB #3 (32F) — I was quite comfortable down to around 17-19F. I slept only in lightweight long underwear. The pair probably could go even lower — esp. if I put on a jacket, but I haven't actually tried that.

I'm 5'10" and 170lbs. Summer here in the Smokies is no lower than 45. I do like the idea of getting something to use with my current three season bag, so a quilt or the thermal sheet seems cool. If I were to make a quilt, what thickness of synthetic insulation do I need to achieve that rating? The ray-way kit claims it is good to 20 degrees, if I remember correctly.

I'm 5'9" and I weigh 150lbs. I think 170-175 lbs will be nearing the upper limit of the thermal sheet — so you will definitely want to try before you buy — or buy from an outfitter that has a no-hassle return policy.

I have atrocious sewing ability — so I know I will make a royal mess if I try to make my own quilt. But if you have the talent and time, why not? I would if I could. :)

The standard RayWay kit is definitely not good to 20F. I used my quilt with the Alpine upgrade–two layers of .9"–and it seemed fine to around freezing. However, I sleep quite warm.

I'm not good at the clo stuff, I generally just go by loft. However, I'm aware that that doesn't always work as some synthetic insulations have a higher clo value than others. Do a search and comb the forums if you want more specific information.

If you do decide to do the Jardine quilt, just take your time, be sure to have good thread, and you'll do great.

I own the #3 SS down hugger and am very pleased with it. I regularly use it down into the high twenties with just a Micropuff vest and extra socks.

Temp ratings depend a lot on humidity, I've found. Damp ground steals at least 5 degrees from my #3. I have used my pack liner bag as a emergency vapor barrier for my feet and legs, as well as a micropuff pullover, when the temp dropped down to around 20.

I also own a Ray Way quilt …. 1.5 inches of loft is certainly a 40 degree quilt … $65 and 27 oz. Thru-hiker can sell you Climashield XP and nylon for about the same money, and it would be warmer as well as about 24 oz, but you'd miss out on the good instructions.

Another option would be the Thru-Hiker down quilt kit … 1.5 oz of loft would run you about $80 at around 15 oz, but a more challenging project.

If you are interested in trying a quilt Fanatic Fringe has an inexpensive 40 degree synthetic quilt that might be worth considering for $129.

I don’t have any experience with their products but it is a reasonable price.

At 170lbs I'm on the borderline for the thermal sheet too, so might go for the #7 instead. I just want something for hot summer camping: the hood is a bit superfluous for this.

Pity Montbell don't do a super stretch version of the thermal sheet, which might give a bit more space.

I went through the same analysis; thermal sheet vs #7?, but the #7 can be pushed down to 3'C by sleeping in an insulation layer and drawing the hood tightly around the nose and mouth. I dont believe the thermal sheet is that versitile, so I got the #7.
My system is the #7 down to 3'C, then the #3 down to -10C, then the #7 INSIDE the #3 down to ?'C (hope I never have to find out).. :)

Now Montbell has the bags on sale. I am still not sure what to get. The thermal sheet is down to $122 and the long #7 is $161. I've also been wondering about the Marmot Atom because it recently went on sale at Backcountrygear.com. Why is this so hard, or rather, why am I so poor?