Hilleberg Tent thread

[Ryan Gardner]

Paul and Roger… do you feel like despite the Kaitum being their red label that the Kaitum could withstand (with a margin of safety) the storms that can be seen on Denali?  If I got the Kaitum I’d probably switch out the 9mm poles for 10mm poles.

[Crow]

Given that the 3P is barely taller than the 2P, and the slope is more gradual, I’d actually expect less wind disturbance on the 3P model, given the same thickness of poles…

As for poles – I personally find the 10mm poles vastly superior.  My Keron is rock solid in strong wind as long as it’s guyed out properly (granted not quite as solid as a geodesic), but the Nallo & other tents with 9mm poles flex and move a lot more in the same conditions.  They haven’t yet failed me as I don’t encounter that extreme of conditions personally, but the 10mm poles feel much more secure.  I’ve purposefully pitched the Keron on peaks where the wind is highest during storms and really enjoyed the experience.  With the thinner pole tents, I instinctively tend to find more protected locations.  Depending on the terrain, the windier location may well be safer (less risk of tree branches falling on the tent, etc.).

I believe I posted somewhere earlier on this thread about the relative strength measurements of the poles, guylines, fabrics, etc. between red and black label tents.

[Roger Caffin]

I do not understand the Hilleberg rating system fully. I would rate the red label Kaitum higher than some of their black label tents. For instance, the black label Nammatj 2 has only two poles.

For what it is worth, my 4-pole winter tent weighs 1.8 kg with 7.5 mm carbon fibre poles, and it has taken 100 kph storms all night without any problems. It did wobble a bit one morning, which worried me, but it turned out that it had lost 6 out of 8 side guys at that stage. The Spectra cord had been rubbing over sharp edges on new Ti snow stakes all night and frayed through. (That part of the stake design has since been rectified!) Then I could not find the stakes anymore: they were buried and digging for stakes in a 100 kph storm is not amusing.

What to use on Denali? Dunno – what wind speeds can be expected at normal climbing times? If not much above 100 kph, I would use my red tent. If seriously higher I might go for a geodesic dome with 5 or 6 poles.

Part of the secret with a tunnel tent in really bad weather is to use internal storm guys. With them in place that whole structure becomes very rigid. By and large, modern tent fabrics, even the very light ones, are quite strong enough.

HTH, Cheers

[Crow]

The Hilleberg rating system indicates the strength (and weight) of the various components – the denier of the Kerlon and floor fabric, the thickness of the guylines, the thickness of the poles, etc.  Black label tents are not for the UL’er; they’re for the person who puts durability and security over lighter weight, and they deliver that well.  While you might criticize the weight, what you get for that added weight is quite substantial.  From memory which I’m sure is a bit off, I believe the 10mm poles are more than 50% stronger than 9mm with a much lower percentage weight penalty.

Of course, for many situations, many people, etc. the lighter tents are indeed strong enough, but that’s not universally applicable.  Some people are harder or their gear, or use it more or in different situations.

[Tipi Walter]

If you want to know the difference between black label and red label, just study the guyout tabs.  My Keron’s 6 guyout webbing tabs are significantly beefier than the Kaitum.

Had a friend up on a mountaintop in a gale wind and a couple of his guyout loops ripped off his Allak.

[Crow]

I should correct myself – UL is a mindset rather than a certain weight limit.  With that viewpoint, even Hilleberg black label tents can qualify as valid UL choices, I think.  If you really need the durability they offer, the weight really isn’t bad for what you get compared to some other offerings on the market.  I prefer a few key items such as my tent to be really durable and comfortable, and compensate for that weight and bulk by using a lot of other UL components in my pack.  My pack generally weighs at least 50lbs, and often more, but that’s because I’m carrying the majority of gear and food for 2 adults and 3 small children (up from 1 when I first posted in this thread, haha).  In Tipi’s case, he’s carrying supplies for a longer period away from civilization.  I think both of us prefer not to replace or perform significant repairs on gear after every outing, but it’s not as though we’re carrying purely stupid weight – it’s simply that some of the gear choices deliver advantages that make the added weight worthwhile.

I could get by on some trips with a Big Agnes UL tent (and I have quite a few times), but I’d be frequently repairing torn fabric and replacing the whole thing periodically, while my Hillebergs have seen hundreds of nights out in all sorts of conditions, deflected falling branches and debris with at most a tiny puncture to patch that would have left me exposed and wet in the middle of the night in a ripped-to-shreds UL-fabric tent (not a fun experience), and are still in fantastic overall condition.

I don’t personally usually need a black label tent, and thus I often use the Nallo instead of the Keron.  But if it’s extremely cold in the middle of winter, with heavy snowfall possible, potential lack of protected cover to camp in, and a need for enough vestibule space to store all our gear as well as cook inside of, the Keron always wins.  The last thing I want is have my tent fail miles away from civilization in frigid temperatures with 3 very young children at risk.  I’m pretty sure trips like this one qualify as actually benefitting from the extra weight penalty.  I learn from every trip and make gear adjustments when it makes sense.  The Keron and Nallo (a pre-2003 model so around 2 decades old!) are investments I’ve never come to regret, while the Anjan proved insufficient so I gave it to some friends who are more fair-weather in their outings.  While I’m sure the Kaitum is a fantastic tent for many situations, I’d be more inclined to buy a Nammatj at this point because the dimensions of the Nallo were changed unfavorably in 2002 and I really prefer the thicker poles.

As expected, my last statement about the relative pole strength was off, but the point is still valid.  Here are the actual stats for the 9mm poles versus 10mm poles, quoted from my old post on this thread.

“Check out: http://dacpole.com/html/stiffness_new.htm In short, a 10.5% increase in weight for a 21.5% increase in strength when comparing the 9mm and 10mm NSL’s. For the Keron 3, you’d only save 2.6oz (74.8g) and significantly increase the risk of pole failure.”

Those are strengths when it comes to break point, but the overall feel and movement of the poles in harsh conditions is a more significant difference than that in my opinion.  The fabrics, guylines, tabs, etc. are all similar – there is a bigger percentage gain in strength than the percentage increase in weight.

[Roger Caffin]

Guyout tabs – cannot argue there. Some of them on some tents seem to be little more than a loop of 1/2″ tape held by a single line of sewing. Very tourist.

My guyout tabs are triangular, with about 3″ length at the seams, and with at least 3 lines of sewing holding them in place. Those little tape tabs you see on some tents are just fraud.

Cheers

[Timothy D B]

This has been a very interesting thread. I am looking at either a Jannu or Nammatj 2 for winter solo multinight ventures in the Intermountain region.

Great info here.

Much appreciated.

Tim

 

[Paul S]

I saw one of the green Hilleberg tents recently. Man, their “green” is nearly black these days.

 

[Chris C]

Here’s a pretty extensive review of the Jannu:

https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/reviews/camping-and-hiking/4-season-tent/hilleberg-jannu

Although I haven’t used a Nammatj yet, I can sing the praises of the Jannu, ease of setting up a free-standing tent, its economical footprint, its good to use in a lot of different terrain, and good ventilation during temperatures as warm as the low 80s F–but not experiencing direct sunlight. Definitely not excessive for 1 person. You could chip off two pounds and get a Soulo but if you are stuck in the tent for hours, it’s up to you on how much space you need before you get cabin fever.

[Timothy D B]

Chris,

I have the Soulo and love it, but really would like a bit more room for multiday winter trips. I am a big fan of the self-supporting(dome) design of the Soulo which is why I am leaning towards a Jannu. That glowing review of it tha you linked above helped also!

[Chris C]

@tdb67  If you haven’t already done so, there is a fantastic Facebook group called “Hilleberg Owners Group” that you can join even if you don’t have a Hilleberg yet. There are fans/owners of all models with gorgeous camping adventure photos and terrific tips.

[Joshua S]

I recently purchased an ENAN used and don’t know the provenance of the tent. Is there an easy way to identify if it is the original Kerlon 600 or the revised version with Kerlon 1000?

 

thanks in advance for any help!

[Franco Darioli]

Not 100% sure but I think all of the 1000 green are of the new very dark green. The red is also different.

Take a look at the photos in this link :

https://www.moontrail.com/hilleberg-enan

In theory the 600 version should be 1.1 kg and the 1000 1.2 kg, so if yours is close to 1.1 kg it should be the 600 type.

I had another look, maybe the green is about the same , just a studio shot compared with one in the wild

[Joshua S]

Thanks for that!  I think mine is the K600 since the outer+inner+poles is 810g. I don’t have the stakes or the bag that came with them. But when I look at the website, it states the minimum weight as those three items without mentioning the stakes. But if the stakes are to be included I would be closer to (16g*8) + 810g= 938g

argh confusion grows. The old tri-pegs were 9g each. So with 8 of those my total weight would be 72g + 810g for a total weight of 882g.  That puts me (I think) squarely in the K600 camp unless I am missing something.

Again in thanks for the help!

[Ryan Gardner]

Hey all,

I’m taking my Nammatj 2 to Rainier in a couple weeks, and I was wondering for these conditions whether or not you guys would stake down the “main body” where the poles meet the ground.  The few winter trips I’ve used the Nammatj on, I used MSR Blizzard stakes to stake out the 4 “loose ends” (the ends where the doors are), the 4 guylines on the sides, and the 2 guylines that keep the vents taught.  But I didn’t actually put stakes in the four spots where the tent poles touch the ground.  It seemed pretty bomber, but I also wasn’t at 10,000 feet on Rainier in June.

Should I stake those spots down as well?  (I ask to make sure I bring enough stakes and/or items to make deadmans with).

[Michael F]

IMHO the extra ounces of the stakes far and away justify the safety they provide. Keep in mind for dead-manning you can use your skis on the outer guy lines and use the stakes for the body. Likewise, trekking poles can be used to secure the tent. The bottom line though is in an alpine environment where wind can be pretty ferocious, I’d make sure everything is staked down.

[Crow]

Those stakes prevent the sides of the tent from pushing inward when there’s a lot of snow.  In my earlier posts where I was in 30” of snowfall, the outer tent was being pressed in to where it was touching and pressing the inner tent inward – without those the poles may have bent, especially when I got up, removing my body weight, to go outside and clear snow…

[Ralph Burgess]

Re Timothy’s comment a while ago:

I have the Soulo and love it, but really would like a bit more room for multiday winter trips. I am a big fan of the self-supporting(dome) design of the Soulo which is why I am leaning towards a Jannu. That glowing review of it tha you linked above helped also!

I hope it’s not bad etiquette to post a plug on this thread when it’s reasonably topical.   I had a Soulo that I found too cramped, picked up the much more spacious Unna on sale at a great price to replace it, but I’m just not doing enough winter hiking to justify it.  I just put it on Gear Swap at a bargain price, brand new.

[Roger Caffin]

I didn’t actually put stakes in the four spots where the tent poles touch the ground.
I have never done so either, summer or winter, and in fact my tunnels do not even have any provision for doing so. The side guys, the ones on the poles, keep the pole ends firmly ‘attached’ to the ground, even in snow.

Cheers

[Joshua S]

So took my new Allak 3 out in the field for the first time and I have to say a bit wonky on the setup. Admittedly this was on a car camping pad so getting the tent laid out correctly was a bit of a challenge. But it worked wonderfully and I can’t wait to take it out again!

[Gunnar H]

Least common denominator between BPL and Hilleberg?

[Roger Caffin]

Anaris – an A-frame tent.
I had an A-frame in the early 60s.
Very progressive …

Cheers

[Edward John M]

Perhaps a little lighter and more versatile than my old cotton japara PaddyMade tho Roger. There is a market there for Retro and you can’t really blame them for chasing sales if people are willing to buy.

[Garrett]

”If you want to know the difference between black label and red label, just study the guyout tabs.  My Keron’s 6 guyout webbing tabs are significantly beefier than the Kaitum.”

I believe they have since upgraded all their red label tents to match their black labeled tent in terms of guyout webbings and zippers. Just if anyone ran across this thread and was considering between the two.

 

 

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