Hilleberg Tent thread

[Crow]

Last night we had a hard rain, and though we were camped on grass we ended up with some water coming in on the sides of the Anjan splashing up from the ground. Not a whole lot but enough to dampen our down bag somwhat and the floor underneath the sleeping pads. Luckily I woke up and removed my electronics from the pockets as those would have gotten soaked. Looking around the packed campsite on the AT this morning, I saw every other tents’ fly sheet did not come down to the ground, and overheard others complaining of getting wet in the same manner. It really made me wish I had been using a heavier 4-season tent like the Keron though – I may try to trade the Anjan for a Nallo. I also prefer a groundsheet that covers the vestibule floor, which the Anjan’s does not do (not sure how useful that would be in so hard of a rain though – our vestibule became a swimming pool!) The bathtub floor worked well at keeping out whatever water didn’t leak in from the sides though.

As for the previous question about the porch configuration – it was easy enough to do. I just needed to loosen the straps on the poles to get the extra fabic over the top of the pole. I will say though, owning both the Keron and Anjan, that while the yellow label tent is light while still strong, it does cut a few too many corners for my tastes. Even before the hard rain getting inside, I was already thinking of getting a red label 4-season tent for a lighter alternative to the Keron that cut less corners. The Anjan is definitely a nice tent – don’t get me wrong – but the black label Hillebergs really spoil you. :)

[Crow]

Nice Tipi! That is exactly what I do if there’s been any rain – take out the inner first and pack it up, than remove and clean/dry the footprint (one reason I prefer taking a footprint – keeps the bottom of the inner clean), then lastly towel down the outer tent inside and out before taking it down and packing it up. Even with a full disassembly and reassembly like this, the tunnel Hillebergs with full pole sleeves are quite fast to put up and take down.

[Tipi Walter]

Casey—I thought about unclipping the Keron into two separate wads but it’s a real hassle on a day-to-day basis and I’m not fastidious enough to worry about it.

And the ground cloth I do bring I use inside the tent but to keep my Keron floor from mud I usually place fresh dead leaves on the ground, as below—

I like to use a ground cloth INSIDE the tent for various reasons—protect my Thermarest inflatables from thorn holes (an extra layer of protection), condensation problems between pad and floor, possible errant water leaks, easier to shake out than entire tent, etc.

Another big reason for an inside tarp is in gully washing rainstorms where the ground becomes a small lake for a short length of time.  With an outside ground cloth these water pools collect between the cloth and the tent floor and never drain.

 

[Crow]

@tipiwalter – I’ve watched that video before and have experienced the same thing firsthand!  It’s funny because you think you’ve pitched the tent in a reasonably good location, but when it really rains the water runs under your tent no matter what.  Unless I guess, you’re centered on top of a mound.  Good luck finding that perfect site!

I do not normally separate the tent parts, but do so if it’s gotten significant condensation in between the tent layers, or as you suggested, in between the bottom of the inner tent and the footprint.  The condensation is a bigger problem with the Anjan than the Keron – the dual upper vents are a really nice asset on the Keron and one of the main reasons I think I’d prefer at least a red label tent for very humid conditions and rainy weather, along with the outer tent coming all the way down to the ground preventing water splashing onto the inner tent and seeping in.

I like the idea of a groundcloth used inside the tent – what do you use for this purpose?  I like the footprint for adding a second layer of protection, but for addressing condensation, leaks, and easy shaking out.

[Crow]

A couple more pictures of the Anjan:

Morning condensation on the inside of the outer tent and dripped onto the inner tent (glad it’s not mesh):

Inner tent dropped (but still attached at the bottom) to dry the condensation in the outer tent prior to packing up:

Last night I found a better solution to avoiding condensation in high humidity – wouldn’t work in the rain but worked great last night as the sky was clear:

[Tipi Walter]

Great pics, Casey.  Your condensation pic reminds me of a pic I took from inside my Keron in December 2015 during a 75 hour butt cold rainstorm—

I use this pic in conversations about 1) the disadvantages to single wall tents (where do you think this dripping water is going to go—onto you and your gear) and 2), why a open mesh canopy is not your friend.

I believe some Hillebergs have a bigger tendency to produce condensation because of their fly configuration whereby the fly hugs the ground all around the perimeter.

And regarding ground water and “lake effect” (pools under the tent as in my vid example), well, I can hear people now:  You should’ve practiced better site selection!  But as you say, in a deluge rainstorm this water will hit the tent in buckets and drip all around the fly perimeter and this water has to go somewhere.  The roof of a tent produces a huge quantity of water in a deluge.

When this water hits the ground is travels under the tent in whatever direction it wants to go—high side to low side—and there will invariably be pooling.

[Tipi Walter]

And I like your first pic.  Many of my makeshift campsites are located on old logging side roads as in your example.  They are level, private, not too brushy—although sometimes it’s hard to get stakes into the old bulldozed ground.

[Crow]

Hah!  Good eye, it was indeed an old logging side road, at least as far as I could tell.  Sure was convenient when all of the surrounding terrain was a 45 degree angle.

Couldn’t agree more about the disadvantages of single wall and mesh inner tents.  I heard one hiker commenting to another about how his Fly Creek UL2 fabric “isn’t really waterproof, but only water resistant”, since he gets wet during rain and speculated that some rain was coming through the fabric – interesting theory but I reckon it’s just condensation building up and being knocked off by the impact of raindrops on the other side.  Either way that mesh inner tent doesn’t help compensate.  I find it surprising how popular that tent is.  I have a different single wall tent but it’s got steep sides so condensation tends to run down the sides and out of the tent through the vents – even so I’m happy to carry the extra weight of a double wall on most trips.

[BlackHatGuy]

I like your second pic, especially that big smile on your little one’s face! What a lucky child!

[Crow]

Well since you liked that one, I reckon I should share some earlier ones with the Keron – he got an early start with Hilleberg. :)

[Tipi Walter]

Great pics.  It’s my opinion that kids belong in tents and are wired to live in tents and outdoors.  It immediately tickles their neanderthal roots.  Little kids find it easy and wonderful to run from inside a tent to the outside and back again a thousand times.  And tent living is safe for kids.

[Andy Berner]

Came across this on YouTube.  New stuff and changes for 2017. https://youtu.be/Q2f48zNGeNo

[Ken Thompson]

Thanks Andy, let’s do clickable

[Stuart .]

The Kaitum 4 makes a lot of sense. Despite the extra width at the centre, the taper of the Kaitum 3 at the doors meant that it was a snug fit for three adults on 20″ pads. The Kaitum 4 will be luxurious for three on LW pads, without having to step up to the Keron 4.

Looks like the Anjan / Rogen redesign is eliminating the awkward pole setup, and reverting to the tried and tested pole sleeve / cup used on all the other tunnel models. I still prefer vents higher up, but the cat cut on the bottom of the flysheet is a creative way to allow airflow while allowing a little better protection from splashback.

[Tipi Walter]

Anyone know about the current floor fabric situation on the red label tents?  The reason I ask it because a guy on Whiteblaze started a discussion on his leaking tent floor and it made me wonder if Hilleberg dropped their floor fabric quality or deniers or coatings etc.  See thread here—

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/120216-Hilleberg-tent-is-a-pool-seamgrip-failed

[Crow]

Happy to see the Anjan updates – sadly I won’t get them, but can definitely wish I had them!  The pole change is the nicest thing as it does take extra time to run around the tent and deal with both sides on the current version, both when taking up and taking down.  Sad to see no reintroduction of the Keron 2!

[Crow]

@tipiwalter, according to http://us.hilleberg.com/EN/about-our-tents/materials-uncompromising-quality/, the red label tents have the same thickness of floor fabric as black label, however they have less polyurethane for lighter weight, which reduces the hydrostatic head from 10,000mm to 5,000mm (I have no idea when/if this matters in practice).

Their FAQ states, “You do not need to seam seal our tents as we use a stitching method that makes the seams really strong and durable. We use a flat fell-seam in all our tents and our sewing machines employ cooling jets around the needles. This means that every stitch goes through four layers of fabric and the size of the hole is minimized by preventing heat-producing friction. The end result is a very precise, very reliable seam that has remarkable durability and water resistance.”

I’ve found my own tent seams to be waterproof so far without any treatment, but I wonder if that will change with time and more use.  I’ve also not sat through really long extended rain like you have yet.

[Aaron Dodds]

Slight diversion to the recent discussion, but I am curious to know what people are using as footprints in the vestibule area of their Anjan GT? I emailed Hilleberg and they nicely explained that the Anjan fly not coming to the ground means that the standard foot print hasn’t been extended into the vestibule area like the 4 season tents (and the Nallo GT footprint will not work in the Anjan as that was the question I asked). The winter camping here in the north island of NZ is mainly temperate with no snow but a lot of rain and hence water logged ground. I’ve thought of making a separate sheet out of Tyvek but just thought I’d ask whether others had any solutions…

[Richie S]

So, Unna, Soulo or Niak. I do have winter alternatives but I’d like to hear experiences with each.

[Crow]

@forest328 – I would have guessed the Nallo’s footprint would have worked with the Anjan as the dimensions seem pretty much the same.  I didn’t realize that the footprint would not cover the vestibule for the Anjan before I ordered it, and it was a pretty big disappointment.  I realize it would get rain splatter onto it but that doesn’t really bother me – I could always disconnect the vestibule connection points and roll it up to get it out of the way, it wouldn’t get water into the tent itself since the inner tent’s floor is also waterproof, and when it’s not wet I really like the vestibule footprint as a clean (or semi-clean, anyways) place to sit down to take my boots off or use my stove just outside of the tent, etc.  The Keron’s footprint will get wet even with the lower outer tent sides, so not really sure why that’s used as the reason for them not covering the vestibule in the yellow label tents.

I’d considered making my own, using the same mounting method as the Hilleberg one, to cover just the vestibule area.  If you didn’t care about reinforcing your tent floor this would be a lighter weight solution than a full footprint anyways, even if heavier fabric were used.  However, at this point I’m thinking that switching to a Nallo 3 is the better bet for me, as I definitely prefer the “4-season” features of my Keron, even in the hot summer, and the GT vestibule is really not something I need.

[Crow]

@landrover – my personal preference would be the Unna.  No vestibule but plenty of room to have your gear all inside with you, and if needed you could leave your gear outside and fit two people in that tent, which really isn’t an option with the other two you mentioned.  I use an external frame pack so can prop it up at an angle, and leave it sitting outside with a rain cover and it’ll stay pretty dry, plus all the water-sensitive contents are in dry bags besides.  A vestibule is really useful if you do need to cook during bad weather, but you could partially unclip he Unna’s inner tent to get it out of the way for this purpose.  The Niak is larger and gives you a (non-freestanding) vestibule, but is a 3-season design, which I personally have decided I don’t really like the tradeoffs of after experience with the Keron and Anjan.

[Crow]

Anjan 3 GT, properly guyed out:

With the sides set evenly, this is how much of a gap you have between the outer tent and the ground, and the second picture illustrates how high up water must splash to possibly leak inside the inner tent:

Keron 3 in the exact same location yesterday morning – I definitely prefer the upper vents in high humidity conditions, not to mention when it rains.  And did I mention the Keron feels absolutely HUGE inside in comparison?:

Most of the time, I’m too lazy to use the guylines or 6 pegs around the sides of the tent.  Though when I use the Keron, I feel obligated to use 6 pegs, rather than the minimum of 4.  Taken this morning, after light rain:

[Andy Berner]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2zvuDFGMNk

A clickable link! Petra explaining the new changes.

[Crow]

Anjan 3 GT at night:

[Crow]

I really prefer the 4-season design with the outer tent coming down to the ground. Rain is just not as much fun in the Anjan…

Above is the outside of my inner tent door after a fairly short rain. Yeah, even with the huge GT vestibule over and around it. Some of this was probably from condensation, some from splashback.  Of course, it was spraying in through the mesh door onto my face, too, making me really wish I could zip shut a solid panel like on the 4-season tents.

The biggest problem though is condensation – splashback doesn’t actually leak through the yellow fabric as I thought – rather it splashes onto the black floor fabric. The evaporating water along with any passing breeze coming in the bottom cool down the sides of the floor, so then a lot of condensation forms on the inside and gets everything damp. The outer tent coming down to the ground, and possibly the thicker floor fabric on 4-season tents, seems to effectively prevent this problem.

[Author]

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