Hilleberg Tent thread

[Crow]

Maybe that makes sense on a smaller tent – I can't see it making any sort of reasonable dent on a larger one. Think twice about switching to lighter poles – the increased stiffness of the thicker DAC poles is quite significant, while the weight difference is not. Check out: http://dacpole.com/html/stiffness_new.htm In short, a 10.5% increase in weight for a 21.5% increase in strength when comparing the 9mm and 10mm NSL's. For the Keron 3, you'd only save 2.6oz (74.8g) and significantly increase the risk of pole failure. On the other hand, weight is weight. Scandium poles may also be worth investigation. http://www.fliegfix.com/zelte/zeltzubehoer/gestaenge/scandium-alu/589/fliegfix-scandium-zeltgestaengeset-11mm-fuer-hilleberg-keron-3-gt-vier-gestaengeboegen You could save 3.0oz (85.1g) by changing out the 3mm guylines to 2mm. The strength of the lines would be reduced by 25% and they wouldn't be as comfortable to use, particularly with cold fingers. You could save 28g by ditching the line runners and using knots instead. You could ditch the stuff sacks to save 5.6oz (159.9g) and make yourself a single lighter one for the fabric pieces. This is pretty significant. You could save 1.7oz (46.8g) by using Toaks Titanium V Stakes without cord loops instead of the Hilleberg Y Stakes. All of the above combined will save you 394.6g, or 13.9oz You can save weight by not carrying the spare pole piece or repair splice (which I accidentally forgot to include in my list above, will do that later). Of course, you don't have to carry the footprint, which is quite heavy at 1lb 5.3oz, bringing the total weight down to 8lb 4.5oz for the Keron 3 A few grams would surely be shaved by removing the tags, "Hilleberg" labels, and if you didn't want them, the reflective patches. As you suggest, metal zipper pulls could be replaced for a little more. Or you could just go with a Kaitum 3 and start with 7.5lb rather than 9.1lb. As with the comparison of Poles and Guy Lines above, the overall tent durability is reduced by 20-25%, but since the heavier things like the fabric is reduced, the weight savings is 18% so not a bad tradeoff. UL is always a sacrifice for weight savings and there are no universal best choices – but I think it is good to really understand the degree of sacrifice and benefit to weigh each choice. I feel like if you buy a Hilleberg, it is because you prioritize some things over light weight, but still get a lot of bang for your gram. So trying to lighten it up by a few ounces and reducing the advantages you have chosen to prioritize seems silly. If you don't want the ultimate in durability and ruggedness, go with a Red Label tent. If you don't need a 4-season tent, go with a Yellow Label.

[Ryan ALLISON]

Thanks for taking the time to write me. I like your pie chart and your reply. It definitely seems like you have a science background. I appreciate that. I agree, it seems very silly to me to do this to a Hilleburg. I read of people doing this and I was just curious how much they are actually saving. I don't think I'll actually ever do it to mine. It's just too darn expensive and beautify to modify. For summer use, I was thinking maybe it could be worth it, but I just don't think it would be worth ruining such an expensive tent. I also have other options that are lighter for summer. The only thing that I would may be consider is the metal zips, but no time soon.

[Richie S]

I did it to an older Akto, all. It the pole basically. I swapped out the stuff sacks for Cuben as well – I did do the end struts. I got it down to Just over 3lbs I think – without losing any functionality.

[Crow]

For the record should anyone care, the Pole Repair Kit for the Keron is 46.2g. I plan on: * Not carrying the repair kit. The 10mm poles should be plenty strong for any conditions I am likely to encounter. Duct tape and a stout stick will have to suffice if something bad happens. * Using lighter/fewer stuff sacks – maybe a separate small one for the inner tent in cases where I want to pack it separately in rain so that it stays dry. The footprint stuff sack is unnecessary, and the pole stuff sack may also be unnecessary. * Using Toaks V-stakes instead of the Hilleberg Y-stakes (because I like them from previous experience and they are more compact though not much lighter. I don't feel a need for pull loops on the stakes (which makes them take up more space) when I can just use a random bit of cordage or even a branch to pull the stake up by it's hooks * Removing tags & labels as I do all products (though not the reflective patches) That'll reduce the weight by almost 9oz minus whatever my lighter stuff sack(s) end up weighing, but that's not my reasoning. My reasoning is simply preferences I generally adhere to regardless. The outer zippers have special metal pulls with big loops that connect to a toggle, to keep severe wind from forcing them open. So I wouldn't touch those. The other zipper pulls may end up replaced, more to reduce noise in windy conditions than weight, but that's not something I'm inclined to do yet.

[J P]

Casey and Gina–great posts on the weight breakdown and weight reduction strategies for the Keron. Thank you for taking the time to share the information. I hope you enjoy your new Keron as much as I have enjoyed mine. I have not used a footprint with mine. So far, the only thing that I don't like about it is that I miss not having something on the vestibule floors. I may try to make a ground cloth for the vestibules only with Tyvek.

[Stephen M]

Hi JPR, I am thinking of making up some Tyvek floors also for the vestibules. Good call.

[Greg Mihalik]

" The other zipper pulls may end up replaced, more to reduce noise in windy conditions than weight, but that's not something I'm inclined to do yet." Examine the zipper sliders before removing pulls to see it they are "locking ". They can be identified by a "pointy spring" that engages the teeth/coils until the pull moves it up to allow it to slide. Replacing a metal pull with a cord may result in not lifting the lock. If you feel the locking feature is of little use, the locking spring can be removed.

[Ryan ALLISON]

Here's a comparison of my two tents. I have to admit that I love my Hilleberg more. I do love the weight of my MLD, but she's more like the stripper girlfriend, and my Hille is more like the church going girlfriend. Front: Front open: Unna with pads:

[Tipi Walter]

As regards to a tight Hilleberg stretching when wet, well, it's a common feature of the Hilleberg line. Kerlon loses alot of tension going from bone dry to wet. Here's an example of slack kerlon. Not generally a problem if you're willing to go outside in potentially crappy weather to fix. The corollary is this: A slack kerlon tent will dry at times and severely so. Bone dry conditions can happen with a re-pegged slack tent and cause the fly to get super tight, pulling apart the hoop seams slightly and causing the sew holes to open a bit. Ergo it's vital every new Hilleberg tent is sufficiently seam sealed with McNetts silnet and/or seam grip.

[Stephen M]

Hi Tipi, How many hours beforehand would the Keron have been tightened? Cheers, Stephen

[Tipi Walter]

Stephen—Not sure I understand your question. Generally when I set up a bone dry tent it will slacken quickly in any amount of moist air (or rain or wet snow). Easy to fix as mentioned and once fixed will stay tight in any amount of rain. Drying happens quickly too. Packing up a wet tent on a trip results in setting up a wet tent at the next campsite, and then if conditions are dry the tent will quickly dry and tighten, often too much. Easily fixed by peg adjustment/mvt.

[Stephen M]

Hi Tipi, Was just trying to find out the time frame from tightening up the tent to when the photo was taken.

[David Ure]

Wow – hopefully we will never hear about a slack Tarptent from Tipi. Lest we use this picture of a saggy Keron.

[Crow]

The amount of TarpTent trolling in this *Hilleberg* thread is quite ridiculous. Reading through this entire thread was difficult for that reason alone. Why not go start a TarpTent thread for that instead of continually ruining this one for those of us who prefer Hillebergs? Tipi has an invaluable perspective of extensive experience to share that some of us appreciate. No tent, or piece of equipment for that matter, is perfect and it is perfectly reasonable to share experience with the shortcomings and how to work with them is perfectly reasonable and does not warrant continual references to some other product that you've already spammed this thread about many times. There is no reason to be so bothered by others making a different gear choice than yourself.

[David Ure]

A. Tipi is not an expert in anything, including Hillebergs. B. There IS a Tarptent thread that he trolls any chance he can. C. Given I have owned and used several Hilleberg and Tarptent shelters, I can comment extensively on their use. Tipi has never owned a light weight shelter. That is one of the most pathetically set up Kerons I have ever seen. But of course, it has been qualified with a weather comment as if that is the only reason it looks like a well used sausage casing. Expert indeed.

[Crow]

A. Matter of opinion. I respectfully disagree. B. So, two wrongs make a right? C. Then why not comment exclusively on your experience with Hillebergs here? Why all the pushing of TarpTents and personal libel? Those questions are rhetorical, btw.

[David Ure]

C. I have. Just read through the thread. "Packing up a wet tent on a trip results in setting up a wet tent at the next campsite, and then if conditions are dry the tent will quickly dry and tighten, often too much." Can we sticky this and add it to the Ultimate Book of Backpacking Knowledge? Or can we have Tipi answer Stephen's question?

[Tipi Walter]

To answer Stephen's question— I set this tent up dry and tight the day before in Cold Spring Gap in Citico wilderness and that night got hit with a sleet storm with high air humidity. By morning when I got up the tent looked like this. Point is, kerlon silnylon does stretch enough to be noticeable. Plus, the older the kerlon the more it seems to stretch. My green Keron at this point had hundreds of bag nights and was faded along with some amount of UV damage. Wet snow will also cause the kerlon fly to stretch and sag. Here's a pic of my Keron when it was new. The newer the green kerlon the brighter it is versus the faded green of older tents.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

As a Tarptent fanboy I still say Hilleberg makes the best winter tents and the Kerlon is one of them. A hoop-type design with cone shaped ends/vestibules like the Kerlon is an excellent design. Yeah, I've "winterized" my Tarptent Scarp 2 by running the optional crossing poles beneath the fly and adding fly hem stake loops and saw it hold up well to 65 mph gusts. But If I had to ride out a winter storm I'd choose the Kerlon for its wind worthiness and ability to handle a snow load. Now, on the topic of one person tents, if Hilleberg would just offer an optional lengthwise pole to go under the ENAN's fly that would make it a good 4 season tent.

[Ken Thompson]

Keron is a model Kerlon is the fabric You are shameless Eric

[Matthew H]

Hey guys, interested to see which Hilleberg might be best suited to me. Need a winter shelter only for here in Colorado, as well as trips up to Wyoming/Canadian Rockies and the PNW. Trying to stay as light as possible, though I know no shelter that can stand up to these weather conditions will be “light” like my Stratospire 2.

It would need to comfortably fit myself (6’1) and my wife (5’4) with out 20 and 25 inch pads.

Currently thinking the Katium 3 might fit the bill.

[Stephen M]

Hi Mathew,

As I mentioned earlier the Kaitum 3 would be perfect, also check out the Nammatj and Keron.

[Matthew H]

Hi Stephen, appreciate your assistance. The Kaitum definitely feels like the best compromise. The Keron is 1.5lb heavier, and the Nammatj is said to have not enough leg room for someone my height.

[James Marco]

Tipi, yes, all the stretching, then drying can cause some damage to an older tent. I split the back panel on mine when I staked it out in the yard after I got back from a week trip in wet weather. It dried out from quite wet…a nice clean fabric tear. It was 10y old though, with all the UV damage. (I will likely patch/seal it.)

[Stephen M]

Hey folks,

Came across this Enan review by Chris Townsend.

 

Enan Review

[Author]

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