Hilleberg Tent thread

[Ken Thompson]

I said most for a reason Dave. Don't call it Fungus Corners for nothing.

[Charles Jennings]

I choked at the price of the Enan when I saw it. I asked Petra about it, and she told me that the Kerlon 600 is harder to make and harder to sew. Apparently they pay more for the Kerlon 600 from their suppliers.

I too like the triangular shape of the Enan, more so than the Akto. it was a pain for me as well to set up the Akto without wrinkles in the fabric. The Enan sets up really quickly and easily. I love the weight of it and the small packaged size. Plus, I like the door of the inner with more screen.

[Stephen M]

Hi Charlie,

I have never pitched the Atko but have seen plenty in the field, for me I was able to get a perfect pitch with the Enan in a couple of minutes.

This is definitely a keeper.

I wonder will they be developing other tents with the 600 material, that should bring their costs down due to economy of scale, I am really happy with my Anjan 3GT and Keron 4 GT but would like to see a lighter solo winter tent. Around here we get too much snow to use the Enan in deep winter.

[Jeff Doshi]

For those who own the Enan, did you go w/ a footprint of any type? I have never used a footprint, but with such an expensive tent am tempted to protect my investment. It kills the weight equation though…

[Charles Jennings]

I use the Akto footprint to keep the tent clean and to have coverage inside the vestibule. It fits perfectly. Bear in mind that all Hilleberg tents, including the Enan, uses a very robust fabric on the floor. It is not a delicate fabric at all. Yes, there is a weight penalty, as a trade-off, but I prefer a tougher floor fabric on my tents.

[Stephen M]

I was going to cut a footprint for my Enan out of Tyvek.

[David Ure]

The best 4×4 trucks have mud on them. Shows they are being used for their intended purpose. Thankfully a good wash and as good as new.

It's just a tent. Wash it when you get home. ;)

[Stephen M]

Even though I own an Unna (and previously owned a Soulo)
I ended up getting a used Soulo to directly compare against the Unna.

More to follow.

[Stephen M]

First look at both of them together.

The Unna inner is bigger but obviously it does not have a vestibule, also the Unna only has mesh at the very top of the inner door. The Unna pitches quicker bit not by much.

Maybe I should be bourgeois and keep both.

Will keep them both pitched until tomorrow as they are in the basement.

[Khoa Tran]

I just bought a second hand Nammatj but im not sure of its exact age. The information tag on the inside has an email address as a contact so it must be within this decade? The poles are grey DAC featherlite, not the yellow featherlite nsl poles seen with the newer tents. Anybody have any idea how old this tent might be? Or know of any other signs i could look for?

[Stuart .]

The yellow/gold poles are used on the Red Label tents like the Nallo, not the Black Label models. If you have grey/blue poles then those are appropriate for the Nammatj.

Since 2013 Hilleberg have had two labels inside the inner tent. One written in English, one in Korean. If yours lacks the Korean label, and there's no indication it's been cut off, then it's likely to be more than two years old.

Another fairly recent change is the addition of reflective strips to the end vents on the outer tent, that happened in the last four years I believe.

The pegs were gradually switched over from a straight Y design to a curved Y design, rather like the MSR Groundhogs. That transition happened last year.

The flysheet colour has changed fairly recently. Sand was introduced around 2012, first in a really light shade, and then a year or two later as a more bronze rendition. In the last 12 months the green has darkened dramatically, looking almost black under artificial lighting. I don't believe the red has changed much, though.

Finally you could try weighing the tent. The official weights have been revised upwards over the last three years, although they started creeping up as early as 2008. If your tent is significantly lighter than the published specs, yours is probably pre-2009/2010.

Hope that helps. The Nammatj is a brilliant tent, regardless of its age. I foolishly sold mine last fall when I was briefly tempted by the GT version. Just last week I had a chance to pitch one side by side a Jannu and an Allak. The Nammatj has the most usable interior space of all three thanks to the steep walls. I'll post pics when I have a chance.

Edited for typos

[Doug Smith]

Here is my Jannu after a recent SAR training weekend. It is in front of my ultimate off-roading machine. A Crown Vic with 160k miles can go just about anywhere. I'm thinking of entering it in the Baja 1000 next year. Hahaha ;-)

[Tipi Walter]

Stuart writes—
The Nammatj has the most usable interior space of all three thanks to the steep walls. I'll post pics when I have a chance.

The Nammatj while beefy only has steep walls on the side and head door and NOT at the foot end where the yellow inner slopes sharply. When this inner is wet with winter condensation it will wet the foot of your sleeping bag when you're on a 2 or 3 inch high sleeping pad (think Exped downmat at 3.5 inches) and using an 8 to 10 inch lofted down bag.

Most Hilleberg tents are just too short to prevent this footbox wetting, and it hasn't been fixed as Hilleberg still recommends putting a rain jacket over the bottom of your sleeping bag, a sorry solution for a tent costing upwards of a $1,000. So do they throw in this necessary rain jacket? Heck no.

This short stubby problem was apparent on my Staika and my Nammatj when camping in soggy winter conditions. I solved the problem by getting the Keron which really does have steep walls from head to foot and on the sides. No more wet sleeping bag footbox.

Beyond this, an older Nammatj tent will have a 100 denier floor, the new ones have the 70 denier floors (although with a higher thread count).

The biggest problem and flaw of the Hilleberg line is their continued use of black elastic connecting the inner to the outer fly. This elastic stretches over time and the inner tent gets smaller—the incredible shrinking tent. My old green Keron had permanently stretched elastic after about 5 years of hard use (800 nights?) which means my inner tent got slack and could not remain tight.

I emailed the below picture to Hilleberg and they fixed the problem to my satisfaction.

[Stuart .]

My comparison was between the Nammatj 2, Allak and Jannu, all two person tents that weigh in the same range. All have at least one sloping wall. Between the three of them, the Nammatj 2 had the most usable interior space, in spite of the sloping foot.

On paper the Jannu has the largest square footage, but the slope at the foot was shallower and the door has a slight angle. That's a function of its wind-shedding design but it limits where two adults can sit up.

The Allak has the curve at the head and the foot end, and doors that follow the curve of the roof at the top. It's bathtub floor is supposed to be the same as the Nammatj 2 but it felt far narrower to me. Two adults are. Shoulder to shoulder in here.

Agreed, having two vertical doors makes for the most usable space in a tunnel. There is precisely one model in the lineup that offers two vertical doors and is sized for two people: the Kaitum 2. I didn't have that available to test, but I've owned the Kaitum 3 and returned it to Hilleberg because the inner tent sags inwards toward the doors. The Keron 3 is a big step up from any of these 2P tents discussed above.

BTW I own the Enan and the Keron 3. I've owned the Nammatj 2 before and foolishly sold it. The purpose of this comparison was to see whether there was a 2P model I could use solo in winter, or for two adults year round, as the Keron 3 is for my 3P trips. Doug Smith very kindly loaned me his Jannu and I really wanted to love it. I keep coming back to the simplicity of the Nammatj 2 though.

So, Tipi, do you actually like Hillebergs or not? You seem to have a love/hate relationship with them.

[Tipi Walter]

Stuart's Quote—
So, Tipi, do you actually like Hillebergs or not? You seem to have a love/hate relationship with them.

Do I like Hillebergs? Of course. See–

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/keyword/staika/

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/keyword/red%20staika/

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/keyword/keron/

I just assume backpackers and users of the Hilleberg line will use these products to the point of failure and THEN have something important to say. I see too many Hilleberg tent reviews with no comments on the aforementioned flaws. This makes me wonder how far the tents have been tested.

Of course I love my green and red tents—they hold up in the wind no matter the storm and are the driest and most waterproof tents I have used. Do I hate them? No way, in fact a Hilleberg goes with me on every trip I do.

But no piece of gear is perfect and certainly no tent is perfect. We must use them enough to find their weak points and even Hilleberg has its weak points.

In fact, I'd like to see users for other tents who come on here whenever their tents are mentioned to preach to the choir and yet rarely if ever have anything honestly critical to say about their tents and in which way and whatever way they fail.

It makes me think these guys never use their tents for 500 nights in all four seasons.

[David Ure]

"It makes me think these guys never use their tents for 500 nights in all four seasons."

Might be because apart from the Scarp, all Tarptents are considered 3 season.

You carry a 4 season 9 pound tent in summer conditions. I am thinking the elevator doesn't go all the way to the top but realistically, this is backpacking LIGHT, so many of your comments regarding lightweight backpacking are considered obtuse. You knew that, however.

[Tipi Walter]

Family Guy's Quote—
"Might be because apart from the Scarp, all Tarptents are considered 3 season.

You carry a 4 season 9 pound tent in summer conditions. I am thinking the elevator doesn't go all the way to the top but realistically, this is backpacking LIGHT, so many of your comments regarding lightweight backpacking are considered obtuse. You knew that, however."

The first sentence is relevant, the second has nothing to do with our Hilleberg discussion, Hilleberg tent flaws, or the sloping foot ends of lighter Hilleberg tents like the Soulo or the Allak or Jannu or others.

We are not discussing lightweight backpacking but discussing the Nammatj tent in particular and the sloping foot ends of most Hilleberg tents. And you offered no opinion about the Hilleberg elastic connectors which stretch permanently over time. Knee jerk reaction as usual.

Now, let's get to the first sentence: ". . . all Tarptents are considered 3 season." Granted, but even a 3 season tent can fail in those 3 seasons, even a Tarptent like a Hilleberg is not perfect, and so let's see an honest review of a TarpTent after 500 nights of 3 season use.

Something like this—

http://navigatingthesurface.com/2014/06/15/lets-talk-about-tarptents/

[Doug Smith]

I appreciate your observations Walter. You've got far more experience in Hillebergs than I do, and I value your opinion on them. I disagree a little bit with your statement that in order to have an opinion on an item of gear you have to have used it to the point of failure. That has a little bit of a bravado tone to it, but hopefully I'm just reading that into it.

All things considered, 500 nights in a shelter made of nylon and zippers, in rough circumstances speaks volumes to it's quality. Even if you paid through the nose for a Keron 4 GT at $1,225, over 500 nights you ended up paying a little over 2 bucks a night. That's pretty darn cheap. :)

[David Ure]

"The first sentence is relevant, the second has nothing to do with our Hilleberg discussion, Hilleberg tent flaws, or the sloping foot ends of lighter Hilleberg tents like the Soulo or the Allak or Jannu or others. "

You have made it relevant by bringing up and comparing to Tarptent instead of sticking to the discussion of Hilleberg on this thread.

This isn't the first time.

Here is a Tarptent review from someone who actually has used it in inclement conditions.

http://www.thehikinglife.com/2014/11/tarptent-protrail-review/

The link you posted is bogus for three primary reasons: First, the Big Agnes tent mentioned is not freestanding even thought the writer suggests it is (13 pegs for a tight pitch is not freestanding). Second, all Tarptents can be pitched right to the ground because their height is defined not by a static pole structure but by using trekking poles, which are adjustable in height. For example, you can see pictures posted on these forums of the Tarptent Notch pitched directly to the ground taking in snowy conditions (and it isn't a 4 season shelter). And third, this comment by the writer, "Most [Tarptent Notches] failed that first night at kickoff this year" sounds so unreasonable as to suggest an ulterior motive and is completely opposite to what many 'harder core' hikers report by using the tent. Please don't link such dribble again or I am quite sure someone will tear the information apart (easily).

"so let's see an honest review of a TarpTent after 500 nights of 3 season use." Use your Google Fu and you will find countless reports of using Tarptents and similar shelters for entire thruhikes. Please educate yourself.

Now back to the Hilleberg (love) thread.

[Tipi Walter]

This conversation has got to me thinking about my Hilleberg usage so I counted them up—therefore as a meaningless footnote and bag night detritus here are the numbers so far—
623 nights in the Staika, 814 in the Keron and 54 in the MSR Fury tent.

[David Ure]

"623 nights in the Staika, 814 in the Keron and 54 in the MSR Fury tent."

How many in a Tarptent?

[Stephen M]

Wow, 4 years in a tent, I am jealous.

I maybe have 2 years in a tent over the last 30 years

[Randy Nelson]

"Granted, but even a 3 season tent can fail in those 3 seasons, even a Tarptent like a Hilleberg is not perfect, and so let's see an honest review of a TarpTent after 500 nights of 3 season use.

Something like this—

http://navigatingthesurface.com/2014/06/15/lets-talk-about-tarptents/"

Are you joking? That's not a review by someone who's spent 500 night in a tarptent. It's from a stereotypical newb long trail hiker who buys gear just for that hike.

"After the rain at kickoff was a tarptent and zpacks tent destruction zone. Most failed that first night at kickoff this year."

Which apparently refers to this:

"At first it was little pings of rain, bouncing off my tent, then more, and then the wind started. I noticed my tent seemed not as taut as it should be, but my stakes were holding so I tried to sleep, but then my stakes flew up and one crazy night began, I saw many other lights come on all over the campground."

So the destruction zone is because his stakes came free? And he didn't adjust the tension on his silnylon shelter when it sagged a bit? Yeah, that guy is a real expert.

[Tipi Walter]

This is probably more in line with what I'm talking about and is a short review of some TarpTent shelters used long term and extensively by German Tourist who pretty much stays out on a near permanent basis—

http://christine-on-big-trip.blogspot.com/p/what-breaks-when-and-why.html

Like me she's happy with her tent brand choice and like me wants to stick with the brand because it works.

And of course no tent is perfect and she points out a few flaws and longevity expectations. The only difference I can see is she finds her tents to last around 1 to 1.5 years while I can get about 5 or 6 years with a Hilleberg (with the consequent weight penalty).

Only one other caveat is worth mentioning—Christine does not do a lot of cold winter camping with moderate to deep snow. She did do a 30 day AT winter hike of 850 km and I'd like to see her do something longer and use a 4 season Tarptent and do a full review afterwards. See—

http://christine-on-big-trip.blogspot.de/search/label/Winter%20hike%20in%20the%20Appalachians

[Charles Jennings]

Compare the length of the Nammatj to the Keron and observe that the Nammatj takes up considerably less real estate.

Not everyone feels the same way as you, Tipi.

I do not and have never had an issue with the slant wall, here in the Rocky Mountains. My son is 6'4" tall and he slept on an Exped 9 right beside me in my Nammatj 3 GT. Did his footbox get a little damp? Yes.

Next night he put a jacket over the footbox. Problem solved.

To me and a lot of my customers, space means more to them for site selection than a little dampness.

I slept in the Anjan head first for a week in the Wind River Range and didn't mind it a bit.

I have worked with the Hilleberg family for the last 15 years and have always found that they really care about their designs and are willing to make changes if need be.

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