Zion Nat’l Park Traverse 2012, aka “The Trans-Zion”, BPL Group Run-Round #2

I noticed there are several shuttle services in the area, I'll see if they would be interested in an early pickup- most of the schedules they show are too late for our use; w/ 6-8 (more??) it might be pretty reasonable???

The basic issues I saw/questions I have are these:

**If we run from Lee's Pass to East rim (as discussed)…the trail finishes a long way from the campground and pedestrians/bikes are not allowed through the tunnel on the road to get back. There is, however, plenty of space to leave cars at the East Rim trailhead. Problem here, is who is going to wait for everyone? It's a comfortable enough spot, has a picnic table…but there could be many hours difference between the first and last finishers. Seems we need a few cars there for different finish times?

**If someone bails at the Grotto or Weeping Rock, down in the canyon, how could it be communicated to everyone waiting at East Rim? Unless a car is left at Weeping Rock or the Grotto overnight (which I'm not sure is allowed), it's still a good walk back to camp. Not sure it would save too much distance.

**There is a private campground up on the rim at the east entrance of the park. I checked…it's exactly one mile from the East Rim trailhead. That could be a good option to stay at because finishers could filter back to camp at their own pace. Only issue there: it eliminates being able to bail at Grotto or Weeping Rock unless a car was left there.

**A lot of this seems it might depend on a final headcount and how many cars we have.

Craig- where is the camp spot in the park that we are thinking about currently?

I emailed a couple of the shuttle services to see if they would even entertain an early shuttle. I'll post up when I find anything out.

MIke

a couple quick questions on the route (I haven't taken a serious look yet so may sound dumb).

1. Is the entire route on "offical" park trail or is some of it quasi cross country?

2. Is it one long trail, or a combination of several?

3. does anyone know the overall elevation gain of the route?

Art- it's official trail, several different trails, ~ 10,000' of gain (and roughly the same loss I believe)

MIke

Here's a post on today's run…it was a good one.

http://sweepingthegarden.wordpress.com/2012/08/16/cucamonga-peak-bighorn-peak-ontario-peak-81612/

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Let's get psyched! Post yer Trials of Miles or Miles of Trials!

Craig- looks like a great run-good rugged country! nice that you got so close to the Bighorns- one of the neatest animals we have in North America imo

I went for my first run since the race on Wednesday- ~ 6 miles hilly terrain, actually felt pretty good :)

I’m going on a 21 mile loop Saturday for work in the Crazies, I’ll be going w/ another warden so I probably won’t break into a run :) Should be getting ~ 6500′ of gain (and loss), about 3 miles will be off trail to complete the loop.

I plan on getting back into my four days a week run routine next week. My longest runs previous to the race were right at 20 miles, I hope to get a few approaching 30 miles prior to Zion.

Here’s some pics of a 18 mile run I did a couple of weeks before the race- Torrey Lake- elevation 9100′, it’s in the East Pioneer Mtns in SW MT

Jacobson Meadow- a neat mountain meadow that was over 3 miles long

Tweedy Mtn (11,500′) on the way up

Torrey Lake

Torrey Mtn (11,600′)

our 22 mile jaunt Saturday

Crazies DIAD

don't know if this is something we're still interested in, but sounds like they are willing to accommodate us, got an email back today- I'll call for exact pricing

"Hello,

Sounds fun! Sure we typically do run the Lee Pass shuttle at requested times (or close to.) Please give us a call to find out availability, time and pricing. If you have 12 or more, we can give you a 10% discount.

Thank you,

Zion Rock & Mountain Guides
Bike Zion
1458 Zion Park Blvd.
Springdale, UT 84767
Ph. 435.772.3303
Fax 435.772.3133
http://www.zionrockguides.com"

Sounds good.
I have a feeling we'll have a smaller group and might not have enough cars to leave at both ends.
Maybe we could leave a few cars at the East Rim trailhead and hire the shuttle to Lee's Pass if it's not too pricey…

Unfortunately, the East Rim Trailhead finish is MANY miles of road from the main campgrounds and passes through the tunnel- no pedestrians allowed. So faster finishers will have to wait at the East Rim trailhead to collect everyone and drive back to camp together. A couple cars there would spare the faster finishers too long of a wait for the slower ones.
There is a picnic table there and it's a comfortable enough place to hang out. If food/drinks/coolers, chairs, changes of clothes, etc. are left in the cars there, the wait would be comfortable enough. We could almost setup a makeshift camp. I'll have to call the rangers to see if the gate to that trailhead ever gets locked..pretty sure it's open, as many people backpack from there.

Only thing I don't like about that plan: if someone at the back of the pack has to bail or can't go on, there's no way to get word to the people waiting at the cars…

Craig- called the shuttle service, looks like it's $35/person (less if we get 10+) to shuttle us from the campground to Lee's Pass. I have to call them to see if they accommodate a very early start.

Depending on how many folks we have we can certainly shuttle multiple vehicles to the East Rim TH the evening before (just have enough vehicle(s) to get us back to camp. If we have 3-4 vehicles there, the faster guys can take a vehicle back, medium guys a vehicle back, slow guys a vehicle back. If someone unexpectedly bails and shows up at camp, then one of the faster guys might have to drive back to the East Rim to let the remaining folks know they can head "home".

Mike

$35 a person is totally reasonable to me. It's a long drive.

As for people bailing early (like at the Grotto or Weeping Rock) I'm not sure how practical it is. Unless a car is left at one of those parking lots (which I don't believe is allowed overnight) or the free canyon shuttle service is still running, it's still a pretty long walk back to camp…likely not that much shorter than just finishing at East Rim. We should definitely find out what the shuttle hours are during Fall.

as luck would have it looks like the free park shuttle runs through 10/28 :), ~ every 15 minutes from 7:00 AM to 7:45 PM

7am will be a late start.

4-5am start sounds right yeah?

We will be working with less day light.

agreed- those are just the times the free park shuttle that runs up the main corridor in the event someone needs to bail at the Grotto- that way they don't have to walk back to camp :)

4-5 AM sounds about right to me, we'll want to get a hour or two w/ headlamps and get a good head start for the day

I'm calling the shuttle outfit tomorrow to confirm that they can pick us up early, they might charge a little more to pick us up outside their normal shuttle hours?????

4-5 AM start sounds good…meaning we'd need to be picked up nearly 1 to 1.5 hours earlier for the drive and dropoff. Ouch.

sounds like they're willing to pick us up at 4:00 AM, said it will cost a little more to do so, but not much more

he also said it's a 50 minute drive from the campground to Lee's Pass, we'll have very close to a full moon (full moon on the 29th) so that might help a little; sunrise is 7:54 so we should have decent light around 7:30- that'll mean roughly 2.5 hours w/ headlamps

sunset is 6:30 PM, so we should have decent light until 7-ish

Nice!

That's not bad at all. I think I was up @ 330 the R2R2R in anticipation. If it's anything like running the trails in my area under a full moon, headlamps may not even be necessary. ;-)

Thanks for doing all the planning legwork guys, I appreciate it. I haven't had much of a presence on this thread but I am most definitely in.

The 4am pickup sounds great to me. I'll be up and jittery by then anyway!

BB

This all sounds good to me!

what are you guys thinking for packs? I was thinking two handhelds- one water, one Perpetuem and then a small pack w/ a 2.0 liter bladder- that should get a guy through the longer stretches water wise

do you think the Nathan HPL 020 or Ultraspire Surge would be big enough? I'd like to try a vest pack this go round if possible

Mike

I'll likely use a 70oz bladder in one of my packs……with possibly 1 hand held if I'm feeling like I need extra capacity.

I've been using 3 different running packs(Nathan, MH Fluid 6 and Camelbak Marathoner) lately and I really like all of them.

The Nathan has been my standby for several years. It's a great pack with it's main drawback being storage capacity and bladder filling when the pack is stuffed full.

The MH Fluid 6 is a neat pack. Very lightweight with a large amount of storage. The pockets on the front of the straps are smaller than the Nathan pockets but the main pack body is huge. The other benefit of the MH pack is that the side pockets are big enough to carry a bottle on each side.

The Camelbak Marathoner pack is really interesting. The pockets on the front of the straps are large enough for a bottle on each side. I really like being able to stow my hand-bottles if they're empty and this pack is great for that. It also carries really well and it's easy to fill the bladder. There's fairly limited in terms of cargo capacity but if you don't need extra layers it should be enough for something like Trans-Zion.

Hope that helps a bit if you haven't bought anything yet. I think if I could only have one it would likely be the Nathan. I think it's the best mix of features/weight/size.

BB

Mike
like Brian, I run with the Nathan HPL 20 quite a bit.
it works great for 5-7 hour training runs, or long races with aid stations where you have a crew or drop bags with extra gear.
for a long self contained run like RRR or Zion I’m not sure it’s big enough for all the clothing you may want to carry in addtion to food and water.
Brian will be done so fast he won’t need extras, but for average guys like us … maybe something a bit larger than the Nathan.

I have been looking at the Ultraspire Omega. it is a vest pack but larger than the Surge. it was specifically designed for Krissy Moehl to win the UTMB a few years back (the classic European 100 miler).
It is a bit expensive, assuming you can get hold of one.

Another option I use for long slow self contained stuff (used it at RRR and Sierras this summer) is the Black Diamond Bbee. It is not running specific but rides decent enough if you’re not a speedster. its also only $50.

Ultraspire Omega

Nathan HPL 20 = 5 liters (maybe)(doesn’t hold much)
Ultraspire Omega = 8.2 liters
Black Diamond Bbee = 11 liters

If anyone is interested in the Fluid 6…..here's a really good deal.

http://www.o2gearshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1&products_id=49953&p=Mountain_Hardwear_Fluid_6_Pack&m=Mountain_Hardwear&zmam=55982562&zmas=3&zmac=648&zmap=49953&gclid=CMCY87zGgbICFQXhQgodly4Aog

BB

Depends on the forecast.

If I don't need many layers (shorts, t shirt, arm warmers, windshirt/maybe windpants, beanie, gloves will easily take me into the high 30s), I'll carry my Nathan HPL20 with a 2 liter bladder (no hose) and one 24oz. handheld. The storage space in the Nathan is limited, especially with a 2L bladder, but a small stuffsack of light clothing can easily be cinched to the shock cord on the outside and rides secure. I know I can fit a Houdini, arm warmers, Dynamo windpants, light beanie, and light gloves this way.

If I need more clothing/layers (rain shell and/or any further insulation), I'll carry my Black Diamond BB with a 2 liter and one 24oz handheld. I love this pack, it rides really well and can pack an amazing amount of stuff for its size.