Bic Mini vs. Bic Mini electric

[John G]

Ferrocium rods light stoves and cotton balls super easy.   Even if they are wet, cold, and at high altitude :)

[David Thomas]

Looks like this thread got revived.  Stuart’s most excellent post about Minimum Ignition Energy answers all of my questions (because I already knew that the dielectric constant of air INCREASES with pressure (and at a tiny, tiny rate) so that isn’t the issue).

Anyone who worked on carbureted cars knows that they run rich at higher elevations.  The same thing happens with our stoves because they have fixed orifices in their jets – they run richer at elevation (and therefore make more CO).  So if you want to use your piezo lighter at elevation, “simply” re-jet it to a smaller orifice.  If compasses are made differently for different latitude are lighters jetted differently for sale in Leadville, Lake Titicaca, etc?  (almost certainly not).

Again, it’s the air-fuel mixture that changes at elevation, not the piezo spark.  And the needed spark is SO much more energetic for a rich mixture as to be beyond simple tweaks to the piezo system.  Unfortunately, you want a SMALLER jet which is bothersome to do, compared to making an existing orifice a little bigger. My mini Bic’s jet is about 0.5 mm.  If the same is true for the Electric Mini Bic, maybe dipping a pin in high-temperature paint, running it into the orifice, and letting it dry would down-size the orifice enough.  Or plugging the orifice with JB-Weld and then drilling it out with a 1/64″ (= 0.4mm) drill bit.  I’m happy to mock up a few such piezo lighters, but here in Alaska, I’m rarely over 3,000 feet elevation (unless I’m at 33,000 feet in a 737).  If someone has a high-altitude trip planned (more than 10,000 feet), maybe I could send some out for testing.

[Ben H.]

Hey David,

I am mostly convinced by Stuart’s explanation, but it begs the question: Why are mini bic’s not affected in the same way?  I am guessing flint’s throwing sparks are much more energetic than the piezio.  (though it appears the piezio throws a more consistent spark when wet).  I guess that is why Brunton says a larger gap would help (more potential energy is built up before it arcs).

 

Finally, do you think you will end up with a smaller orifice after all of your effort?  It seems with a little bit of wobble your 1/64th inch bit will give you a larger than 0.4 mm hole (perhaps larger than 0.5mm)

[David Thomas]

Ben,

I think a hot chunk of the flint has so much more mass / energy than the piezo spark, that it can initiate a flame front even in the too-rich mixture that arises at elevation.

Some butane lighters have a variable flame.  Is there a variable flame piezo lighter that some of you Californians (Coloradans, Peruvians, Tibetians, Nepalis) could experiment with?  Although I suspect the valving for the flame is before the orifice – and it is the smaller orifice I’d want.  Less gas due the smaller cross-section of the orifice, but at the same velocity so it mixes with more air.

Yeah, not all my experimental lighters will have a smaller orifice on the first try.  I’m thinking I set up a jig on my drill press to hold the lighter as vertical and as steady as possible, because, yeah, a little wobble of the drill bit and I’ve made a BIGGER orifice.

[Ken Thompson]

Back when bics had an adjustable flame (remember) we would stick a needle in and open up the orifice. That would allow us to shoot out a two foot flame across a table. Good times.

[K C]

WOW, BPL community is awesome at digging up old threads, I forgot that I started this thread.  Funny thing is that I went back to the mini bic because it is more readily available and come in three packs at every grocery store, and out of habit I have to bring a brand new one every backpacking trip.  I may go back to the electronic, weird how you learn things, then forget them and go back to what you have been doing to begin with…..

 

[Nick Gatel]

I like the electronic because it is easy to light using my forefinger, which makes it easier to light a stove. If you hold a light close to the lighter it is easy to see how much fluid is left, so no need to take a new one on each trip. Here is my review of the Bic, which I think is the best piece of gear ever, and probably has more information about them than anyone ever needs to know.

 

[Stuart R]

Wow, I had completely forgotten that I had written that post! I use French brand Flam’Up piezo lighters which have a flame control, but I am nowhere near altitude to test. They have always just worked at up to 2000m without adjustment.

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