ticks in your gear while you’re in the bug bivy?

[Hamish McHamish]

In bug season many people sleep in a bug tent or bivy under their tarp. Usually these bug-free havens have little room for your gear, so your stuff lays under the tarp but outside the bug tent. I have a MLD solo bug bivy that I plan to start using on my next overnighter.

In tick country, do you guys worry about ticks getting into your gear as it lays unprotected, then after you pack up in the morning getting into your packed clothes, quilt, etc? I wonder because Ray J. describes getting ticks on his pack after laying it down during a break.

Tick season has arrived in the Southeast USA. I was dayhiking this weekend and even on a good trail without brush, I caught a monster tick crawling up my calf with all the gusto of an alien facehugger (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-uK03Yj6po). It got me to thinking about battling them as the weather continues to warm up.

[drowning in spam]

That's why I bring my gear inside, but then I worry that there might be ticks on it that I've brought inside for the night.

I got a tick on my pack after putting it down for a short moment on the side of the trail. I was going to make camp there until I saw the tick crawling up my pack. I hiked another mile and slept in the middle of the trail. Last month I encountered lots of ticks, and again decided to sleep in the middle of the trail.

[Chad “Stick” Poindexter]

I hate ticks…

I just bring my gear in my tent with me.

[John Almond]

I spray Sawyer's Permethrin on my gear before heading out into the back country. It just plain works, as far as my experience goes.

During my Ocala National Forest hike last summer, I found six ticks on my legs in three days despite 100% DEET applied to them after each meal break. I'd sprayed my gear and my clothing before leaving home. I did not find a single tick underneath my clothing, in my hammock, or on my pack the entire time.

YMMV, and you may not be an insecticide fan. But, if you don't mind a chrysanthemum-derived compound, Permethrin seems to work better than anything else I've tried.

[John Brochu]

Can you spray permethrin directly on cuben and other technical fabrics?

[Jace Mullen]

While building trail in Northern Minnesota this past summer I pulled 133 ticks off me (we had a running count). I don't really worry about them anymore.

[Walter Carrington]

John asked, "Can you spray permethrin directly on cuben and other technical fabrics?"
My guess is that it should be safe, but I don't know how long it will last. It should work OK on packs. What about ground cloths or bivys? It would be nice to keep ticks from crawling across my ground cloth onto me.
I guess we'll have to do some experiments:
Cuben
Tyvek
Polycryo
Silnylon
Event (so expensive, will it harm the breathability? )

Does anybody have ideas on how to do the experiments on efficacy and durability of treatments?

My only idea is to spray a small sample with permethrin and find some bugs to see if they die on the fabric; repeat over time.

[John Almond]

The emulsion that the Permethrin is suspended in is petroleum-based. So, if petrol products will harm the material, I'd steer clear.

It works just fine on regular old nylon, polyester, wool, and spandex, though.

[Will Webster]

This would be an excellent project for an MYOG'er or cottage industry manufacturer who has scraps of these projects.

[Steven McAllister]

Ticks tend to not crawl into your gear. They usually hitch rides on passing animals.

It is not so common for them to crawl into your shelter. More likely to hitch a ride when you walk through foliage or set your gear down in grass/duff.

I don't worry about ticks on my gear. I worry about them on me.
I treat all my hiking clothing with permethrin, so am usually confident.

I have had them on my bare hiking legs, but they are usually easy to spot there and can be removed before Lyme is an issue.
It usually takes many hours of them being attached for Lyme to infect. So don't worry unless it has been attached for a while.

I have had Lyme, in fact an advanced case, but that was before treating my clothing.

[Hamish McHamish]

Great idea on the permethrin, I will follow up on that one.

[Sam Farrington]

" I don't really worry about them anymore."

You should. The Lyme disease is not always so easily diagnosed, and if it progresses for a while, may leave you permanently disabled. Finis, BP.

The prevalence of Lyme in deer ticks is very high here in NH, although the studies run all the way from 20% to 50%. Fortunately, they can still be avoided by going north of the Whites to the Cohos Trail, but they move further north every year.

It would make sense to do a little research and find out how prevalent Deer Ticks, as opposed to other types, are in your area; and if so, how infectious they are. State health departments can be very helpful with this type of info.

Hiking here around Chocorua in the warmer seasons, I stick to the hardened trails below 2000' and spray Permethrin on boots and clothing, but not directly on skin. You're right, the ticks aren't fazed much by DEET, and won't let it keep them from a happy meal. Were I camping here, I would spray the gear, all of it, without hesitation. My dogs have lyme shots, and are treated regularly with Frontline, but still get dog ticks. The Deer ticks are much harder to detect.

Wish a new human vaccine for Lyme would be reintroduced.

[Jace Mullen]

Just to be clear, that area I was in had pretty much only dog ticks, wich are not known carriers of Lyme.

I know how to distinguish between the two and we had resources to test any tick that was embedded for lyme.

[Diane “Piper” Soini]

Ticks must be different back east because out west they appear to be really clumsy and unable to grip slippery fabrics very well. They'd much prefer to climb up a piece of grass and wait for a meal than hang out on your backpack where they can barely manage to keep from flipping over onto their backs and falling off into the dirt. Anyway, I use a tent because I hate worrying about my gear being out there in the wind blowing away while I sleep.

[j lan]

Okay so I had a total nightmare tick situation last weekend. Pulled at least 25 off of me and 20 off my girlfriend. Then while driving home they were crawling out from my shirts sleeves. Found 1 each day on me after returning for the next 3 days. It was terrifying. Even found a deer tick crawling through my partners hair.

So I now have a dilemma. I left my gear in my car and I found a live tick a week later inside. My gear must be crawling with them. I just read that washing machines don't kill ticks and after an hour on high in the dryer still half are alive.

Anyone have any ideas? Wash all clothes with a little permethrin? What about my tent and sleep pads.

I am just seriously freaked out and spooked. I have never seen this many ticks in minnesota.

Thanks,
Jay

[Karple T]

Ticks don't drown.

http://tachinid.wordpress.com/2009/01/22/dont-try-to-drown-ticks-it-just-doesnt-work/

Check out this stuff – I use it on me my stuff and my dog.

I spray it in my yard and so does my neighbor and we are flea & tick free.

Developed for use in Iraq to kill sand flees.

Organic Pesticide – no harm to pets or people.

http://www.cedarcidestore.com/cedarproducts.html

[Stephen Barber]

For your clothes and gear, soak them in a permetherin solution – ticks die on contact. You can buy concentrated permetherin at livestock/farm stores and on Amazon. Dilute to your desired level. Dip clothes, gear, wring out, and dry (not in a clothes drier, on a line, etc.).

For the car, get a spray bottle of permetherin, and spray down the interior. Even if ticks are hiding, they contact the permetherin when they crawl out towards you, and die.

In the future, treat ypur clothes with permetherin before you hike, and you won't have a problem.

[Jerry Adams]

I've heard about Cedarcide from radio ads on Randi Rhodes and Stephanie Miller who swear by it but since they're getting paid for it I'm a bit skeptical

Does it work?

Have you tried it when there were Mosquitoes biting?

What about flies? I find that's the worst pest. DEET only barely works.

[Jerry Adams]

Permethrin is a bad ass poison. I sometimes use it on the outside of my pants, gaiters, and boots. They say not to let it touch your skin.

If you spray it on your car interior or soak your clothes in it, make sure and let it dry out completely. Maybe let them air out for a few days?

[j lan]

Thanks for the great advice, good thing I have a whole bottle of permethrin already! I will go the cedarcide route if I am still having problems.

Oh and Jerry, I have worked with permethrin before and although it is toxic right away, It quickly degrades via sunlight and air. I do not drive often so this is a pretty easy one for me.

Jay

[Karple T]

1st off – I have nothing to do with this company!!!

I have done a lot of investigating though. (For my dog's sake)

The spray for flea & tick works by vapor of the cedar oil first repelling because they cannot breath it and if they are around it for long it permeates their system and kills them within 48 hrs. Vapor keeps away skeeters very well.

When I first spray my yard the smell makes the whole yard free of skeeters for a few days and they come back a bit until it kills all their larvae and then – no skeeters fleas or ticks.

It is not water proof and will sweat off skin and wash off in the rain.
It smells like cedar so it is not unpleasant to have on you or sprayed in your tent.

I have spoken with a number of people who switched from permethrin to cedarcide.

You can use both together as well. I am not anti-permethrin.
Use both on your clothes and gear & use cedarcide on you and pet.

[Harald Hope]

Deer tick nymphs, the young ones, most prevalent in Spring / Summer, ie now, are this size: .

The size of a period, that is.This may be one of the biggest misconceptions people have, I know I did, I thought they were easy to spot based on the big ones I've gotten bit by in the past, but that is not the case, and the big ones, like dog ticks, don't have Lyme anyway. But new strains from Romania are showing up in Scandinavia with new diseases.

So don't be so sure you are easily able to spot them and remove them, they like armpits, kneepits, and other hard to see places.

The nymphs also have the highest infection rates, relative to the adults, which are the size of sesame seeds.

Lyme is spreading, and you can't rely on your state's test results, if you drill into them, which I have, there are precisely zero tests done in areas I've backpacked in. So there are no actual tests. And where tests have been done, they have literally 2, 3 ticks tested, from one spot. So don't trust those infection rates you see, they are probably far too low.

Lyme is not a joke, and it doesn't necessarily show up using the standard Lyme Elisa bloodtest, so trust the symptoms and the fact of your presence around ticks more than test results. Failure to do this can end your backpacking career, it's not a joke and you can't out-macho these little critters or their diseases.

Also, they often carry more than one disease, and currently the medical system is not testing for the other diseases they carry.

In Scandinavia there is a new tick born virus that is incurable and often fatal, can however be vaccinated against oddly enough. No telling how long that will take to get imported to USA.

I'll never even consider using a bivy type bug system, fully enclosed bug screens for me and gear, or I'm not going.

This season was reported to be extra high tick populations, these first hand reports seem to confirm that.

Again, can you spot this . on your body? Think about it before thinking you can pick these off by sight. They also inject a sort of pain killer so you often don't even feel their bite, making matters even worse.

Mother nature is not happy, we're disrupting the ecosystem, and the ecosystem is going to start flailing about wildly in increasingly difficult to deal with ways. Would be nice if we'd worry about the causes as much as the results, but that appears to be too much of a stretch for most people so no point in even bringing that up any more.

[Doug Smith]

I pulled over 100 off my dog and over 20 off me a couple weeks ago after a SAR training at a local state park. Funny enough, we did a real search last week only one county away and I crawled through way more brush and poison oak, but only found 2 ticks that time. I'll take poison oak over ticks any day of the week. At least I can see it and know how to avoid skin contact.

[Stuart R]

Got home from an overnight trip, checked my body whilst in the shower – no ticks.

2 days later, in the shower again, found tick embedded in my lower leg!

I reckon I carried the tick home on my shoe and then the tick crawled from my shoe to my leg while wearing the shoes the day after that first shower.

Unfortunately permethrin based repellents are hard to find here…
Edit – I just found some, gotta buy!

[Mark Haffner]

http://www.insectshield.com/PDF/IS_Your_Own_Clothes_-_US_form_revised_3-11-2015.pdf

I haven't sent anything to this company yet, but I think I'll give them a try. 2 pairs of socks, 2 shirts, pants, shorts, tights, 2 underwear, hat. Not cheap but better than dealing with all that spray chemical myself. As well as permethrin works, this should take care of most ticks. Mark

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