Topic
California Campfire Permit 2012
Forum Posting
A Membership is required to post in the forums. Login or become a member to post in the member forums!
Home › Forums › General Forums › General Lightweight Backpacking Discussion › California Campfire Permit 2012
- This topic is empty.
-
AuthorPosts
-
Apr 1, 2012 at 7:45 am #1288144
The on-line 2012 California Campfire Permit is up:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/sequoia/passespermits/campfire_permit/calcampfirepermit2012.pdf
CA hikers are required to have a signed copy of this when we use a stove or build a fire in CA national forests, etc.
Apr 1, 2012 at 9:30 am #1862158What I find stupid about this whole fire permit thing is. They will give one to anyone. Heck I've filled them out for myself. They give no education prior to handing one out. SO what is the point? They count usage from hiking permits and parking lot estimates.
Anyway I always get my new one the first day of the year that the office is open in January.
Apr 1, 2012 at 10:13 am #1862172I think it must be a CA legislative April fools joke that nobody caught on to. I discussed this with friends on an outing last year and we could come up with no reason for it save giving rangers a reason for writing a ticket for not having one.
They should charge $.05 for one so it would at least bring in some revenue.
Apr 1, 2012 at 11:43 am #18622001) They're easy to get, free and takes about 10 minutes, tops.
2) They can use statistics to determine if people are interested/using these
3) It's a barrier-to-entry to keep the casual (and usually more careless) users from using potentially destructive gear. If you're responsible and get the once-per-year permit then they're okay. If you're not, you get a ticket.I think of it as "less party people out there" because they're not interested in doing the Right Thing; they just want to go out and tear it up. A ticket or two and they'll stop coming out (because they're not serious enough to make the micro-effort to get a free permit.)
=)
-mox
Apr 1, 2012 at 11:52 am #1862201I get mine in early January too, before I have a chance to forget it. Never been checked for one, once in awhile for a wilderness permit. Kind of a joke, I wish they would give more info on what not to burn in a fire and how to put it out when done. Pack it in, pack it out.
DuaneApr 1, 2012 at 11:59 am #1862205I have also never been asked to produce one in the backcountry, ever.
I don't buy #2 as up here you fill out your backcountry permit and grab a prefilled fire permit from the pad, all signed. I don't think they really count those. Not a good way anyway as you could get a new one everytime you go out. Did you go out for one night or three hundred? They can't tell from your fire permit.
As for #3 They go out anyway as they don't even think about permits in the first place. You know, the "It's public land, I pay my taxes" crowd.
I also have never heard of anyone ever getting ticketed for not having one. Since they keep a copy of the one you get. Is there a database? Not. Since the permits are free and serve no real purpose in actuality why not just have the ranger give you one with the speech?
Stupid waste of money and resources. The backcountry permit that you fill out for the King Range also is your fire permit. Why not just do it that way?
Then there are all those places that require no permits for access to use. Maybe it is a bigger problem in the east.
Apr 1, 2012 at 12:51 pm #1862220The only way a fire permit could possibly get any more funny and asinine is if there was a warning across the bottom that says:
WARNING: [Fire] contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm.
Seriously? A permit to use a canister stove? LoL. So awesome.
Apr 1, 2012 at 2:32 pm #1862262My guess, considering that every time I fill out a permit for the San Bernadino Nat. Forest is that they hope people read what is actually on the permit. It serves as a handy "rulebook" that people feel more or less obliged to take with them.
Apr 1, 2012 at 2:50 pm #1862266The only time I've been checked was when getting a Wilderness Permit at a ranger station. I had to go out to my truck and dig down in my pack for it. I've never been checked on the trail.
Apr 1, 2012 at 3:21 pm #1862279I always get mine from the self serve kiosk outside my local ranger station, it's a really ridiculous system.
No one has ever checked my permit, it is good all year in any national forest in the state of California. I do it because it's required, but have never understand why.
Apr 1, 2012 at 6:22 pm #1862347The first two terms or requirements of the permit are"
"1. Clear all flammable material away from the fire [this includes gas stoves!] for a minimum of five feet in all directions to prevent the escape of the fire."
Not exactly LNT, eh?
"2. Have a shovel available at the campfire site for preparing and extinguishing campfires."
I'm sure they aren't thinking that my shovel is a QiWiz Big Dig! Has anyone ever seen a backpacker (any kind, not just UL) carrying a full sized shovel down the trail???
Apr 2, 2012 at 9:52 am #1862541For the last few years I've always printed the campfire permit off the Sequoia National Forest's website. It at least makes you take (and pass) a 3 or 4 question quiz about safe campfire practices before you can print out your pre-signed permit. For me it's much more convenient since I can't ever seem to get to a FS Ranger station when it's actually open. I presumed you had to "pass" some similar quiz if you picked up your permit in person.
As far as checking for campfire permits, I've had rangers ask to make sure we have one, typically when we're at the ranger station picking up our backcountry permits. In my local National Forest, there are no permits required to enter/hike the backcountry or wilderness areas but I have heard of some of the local Volunteer Wilderness Rangers (VWRs) doing campfire permit checks in the backcountry instead. For those found without, they get issued one on the spot, so there's still no repurcussions for not having one.
I don't know too many people who carry around shovels in their packs, but some National Forest Districts (like the Santa Barbara district of Los Padres NF, for example) make an effort to outfit each official backcountry campsite with a shovel or two for hikers to use for campfire duties. The FS supplies the shovels, the VWRs pack them in and leave them at the campsites. They usually last a few years before some knucklehead inevitably burns up the shovel's handle in… you guessed it! The campfire.
Apr 2, 2012 at 10:08 am #1862547It used to be that you could get your annual campfire permit by showing up at a national forest ranger station and showing them that you had two important items. One was something to carry water in. It could be a collapsible bucket, cook pot, etc. The other was something to dig or scrape earth with, and that could be a shovel, cathole trowel, etc.
–B.G.–
Apr 2, 2012 at 10:22 am #1862550"It used to be that you could get your annual campfire permit by showing up at a national forest ranger station and showing them that you had two important items. One was something to carry water in. It could be a collapsible bucket, cook pot, etc. The other was something to dig or scrape earth with, and that could be a shovel, cathole trowel, etc"
Yep. Part of the current process is that hopefully most people will read it and retain it. A separate campfire permit does communicate the importance of fire safety and the the other part is, "that is how we have always done it."
Obtaining a fire permit every year does not bother me at all. I have more important things in life to worry and fret about.
Apr 2, 2012 at 10:25 am #1862551"Part of the current process is that hopefully most people will read it and retain it."
Nick, you are making some big assumptions about the effectiveness of the California public school system on reading.
–B.G.–
Apr 2, 2012 at 10:34 am #1862556I know Bob. That is why "hopefully" was included in the sentence. :)
Apr 2, 2012 at 10:46 am #1862563I was issued a permit this weekend by a Volunteer Wilderness Ranger. Of course, he just happened to be joining me on my own personal trip. I let him issue me the permit so that the trip counted as official business and maybe he could write this off on his taxes. He said he hasn't figured out how to write his volunteer stuff off on his taxes yet.
Apr 2, 2012 at 7:48 pm #1862806Thanks for the link Stephen. I have been looking for a 2012 permit. Last time I checked the other online permits were outdated.
Apr 3, 2012 at 8:23 am #1862994Stephen: Thanks for posting that link. I just got a certain very nice stove in the mail that I'll need that permit in conjunction with. :)
General comment: I think it varies by forest and station what the issuance procedure is. At the HQ station in the Angeles National Forest they had me read something and gave me a talk about how rocks will explode if I use them to make a fire circle.
I never ever been "carded" for my fire permit. I have been checked for a wilderness permit innumerable times.
Apr 3, 2012 at 10:11 am #1863055I have one of those heavy, short camping shovels that made it legal to have a fire. I have not used it for years, never saw anyone else carry one, nor the Rangers ask. Just like some do with a toothbrush, I cut the handle to minimum size and length, mostly so it would fit my old Camptrails pack.
Duane -
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Forum Posting
A Membership is required to post in the forums. Login or become a member to post in the member forums!
Our Community Posts are Moderated
Backpacking Light community posts are moderated and here to foster helpful and positive discussions about lightweight backpacking. Please be mindful of our values and boundaries and review our Community Guidelines prior to posting.
Get the Newsletter
Gear Research & Discovery Tools
- Browse our curated Gear Shop
- See the latest Gear Deals and Sales
- Our Recommendations
- Search for Gear on Sale with the Gear Finder
- Used Gear Swap
- Member Gear Reviews and BPL Gear Review Articles
- Browse by Gear Type or Brand.