“Ultralight hunting”

@ Kevin

Well said. It really is a different beast. Certainly a challenge.

Anyone have experience with the AR-7? The waterproofness and the breakdown really appeal to me.

I do not but I've only heard good things about them.

@ Mike

The backpack hunting section on 24hourcampfire has lots of good information and this has been discussed before. I talk to a lot of lightweight hunters.

That being said here are some weight observations:

You need a pack that can carry some weight, and is capable of going through brush etc. currently the lightest options go about 2.5 lbs. I think I could custom make a pack that would break the 2lb barrier, but that's about it. Currently I use a ULA Epic with modified stays If I want to be light. I also have a modified frame pack, and a 6lb load hauler.

You probably should have a quilt or bag that goes to 20 degrees comfortably. Unless you are a small person and use your clothing for a lot it's tough to break 2 lbs

As for a pad, you probably need at least a Ridgrest, that adds a pound.

Optics, probably a range finder at min, a lightwieght spotter or quality binocs. Hard to get below a pound to see an animal at any distance.

Clothing, this is a big change for me. I don't want to run through Oak brush in my Mont Bell down parka. Extra socks, clothing for temps from 0 – 60, but somewhat rugged, probably hard to get below 3 lbs. You also may be tracking a wounded animal through who knows what. I know we don't want to admit that, but it happens.

Rifle , I have a Tikka 30-06, for utility. I think scoped, and everything it is probably 8 lbs + if I include extra ammo close to 9lbs.

Knives and field dressing. I love my havilon, it's super light, but I take a backup as the blades are thin. I don't take a saw for field dressing at all. Game bags, the standard ones are heavy but good for letting stuff breath. I've used Silnylon stuff sacks before and they work. All in, really hard to get below a pound (4 ounce knife, 6 ounce knife, 4 -5 bags capable of holding 40 – 50 lbs each). A utility tarp is nice as well for clean field dressing.

That gets me to 18.5 lbs and is probably on the low side. That includes no food, no shelter, no good flashlight or extra batteries, no pictures , no shooting sticks, no calls, no tripod, no fire starting, no stove , etc. It is a pretty bare bones list.

I think the general consensus would be 25 lbs all in , is very light. Without the attention to detail and weight, you could be at 45 lbs pretty easily for a 5 day hunt.

BTW the sheep I just ate for lunch was fantastic.

Here's a first pass at some details on the lightest options I'm aware of for individual items. I'm assuming backpack rifle hunts for CXP2/CXP3 game in forest and mountainous regions during shoulder seasons, with shots up to 500 yards.

The rifle should weigh 5 to 5-1/2 lbs. Forbes, Browning and Kimber offer production rifles in this weight class, along with custom makers like Christenson and NULA.

A scope will add 8 to 10 oz. Leupold has both fixed and variables within that range. The Swarovski and Zeiss 3-9x scopes offer a substantial improvement in quality, but weigh 12 and 15 oz, respectively.

If using a bipod, the lightest I'm aware of is the Kramer SnipePod at ~2 oz for prone length and ~5 oz for sitting length.

All the slings and scope covers I've come across seem unnecessarily heavy to me. I'm planning to make a simple cuben "shower cap" scope cover for my new rifle. I expect it to weigh in at about an ounce. I don't use a sling.

Zeiss, Swarovski, and Leica make 8×20 binoculars at 6.3, 7.6, and 7.8 oz, respectively. Personally, I'd trade extra weight for something with better performance, but I think these represent a minimum that will still do the job in most situations.

At the extreme low end, the Zeiss 8×20 monocular is 2.7 oz, but I'd be concerned about stability and eye strain. Leica, Optolyth, Vortex, and Zen-Ray have slightly heavier offerings that would be worth considering as well.

Leica, Leupold and Vortex all make rangefinders just under 8 oz. With practice and a willingness to stay well within your rifle's point blank range, you could dispense with a rangefinder altogether. Some kind of ranging riflescope reticle would provide an additional measure of confidence.

I'm not aware of anybody making a compact/lightweight rangefinding binocular, so I think separates are the way to go.

TAG bags appear to be the lightest option for game bags, and most folks seem pretty happy with their performance. The 24×44" bags weigh a bit over 3 oz. each. I've heard of folks using sil nylon bags for hauling meat, but I've never tried it myself. That approach could save a few ounces.

Knives, saws, cordage, and a tarp are all pretty general-purpose items that have been discussed elsewhere. My kit presently includes a Mora, Lawson ironwire, and an ID sil poncho, which also serves as my rain gear if I'm not expecting too much precipitation.

In addition to the above, I include a small spray bottle (~1.5 oz), powdered citric acid (1 oz for every 48 hours I expect to be in the field), and a few lengths of bright flagging tape (~5 g).

If you want to haul a load of meat on your first trip back to home base, you'll need a pack that can carry your max load with reasonable comfort. Lots of variability there; you'd probably be looking at a minimum of 40 lbs. and as high as 150 lbs.

I really like the Mystery Ranch NICE concept, where you can detach the pack bag from the frame. This lets you attach your meat bags right against the frame, then strap the pack bag on top of that. It sounds great for carrying, but the bag and frame weigh 6.5 lbs! The alternatives are to put the meat bags inside your pack and strap everything else to the outside, carry a pack large enough to fit everything, or carry your usual UL pack and plan on an extra trip to retrieve a dedicated hauler from your home base. None of these seem like great options to me.

The last bit I'll mention is that my first aid kit includes a SWAT-T tourniquet (~3.5 oz), a roll of hemostatic gauze (<1 oz), and a couple pairs of sterile gloves (<1 oz), but these are items I bring on backpacking trips as well.

Please add and correct as necessary. I don't pretend to have even remotely complete knowledge of all the possibilities.

The pack for carrying meat relates to a similar thread I started last week or so. The lightest pack advertised for this sort of thing is the Badlands Sacrifice, at 3.5ish, but there are mixed reviews. I'm thinking of going with the LL. Bean Hunters Carryall, basically a frame with straps and loadhauler "wings", at 4.4 lbs. Add a cuben drybag for my gear and a few pockets, and I should have a stronger frame and still save about a pound from my Sitka Bivy 30. Good info here.

The Kifaru KU 3700 is 2 lbs, 7 oz and people seem pretty happy using it to carry 100+ lb loads. The main advantage I see with Kifaru in the sub-4000 ci pack category is that they have full-length stays that allow the load lifters to do their job. The other packs I've seen don't ride high enough, so the "lifters" are really just stabilizers that pull the load into your back.

Another thing I'm liking about it is that it's only 2 oz heavier than their 2200 ci pack. I could fit all my gear and close to 100 lbs of boned out meat in it and still be almost four pounds lighter than the MR Longbow.

Kifaru certainly seems to be the leader in this field. If only…

I've had a nice frame, it was nice but to heavy for day to day hunting.

Here are some options I've know people to use

– ULA Epic with heavier stays and a couple extra compression straps. Works pretty well, but not for 100 lbs.
– LL Bean Carryall – Pretty nice pack, couple with light dry bag and you are in pretty good shape. Frame is sufficiently stiff. Load lifters work well, you could probably lighten it some with modification.
– Old frame packs and attach dry bags etc. This is probably my route this year.

I can't see myself using a pack with an attached silnylon bag in the areas I go into. A bag which I can detach sure. I have an Old Dolores made Osprey that works well to. It's 5.5 lbs but it hauls well, and the difference is only on the way in anyway on the way out I don't much care if it's 80 lbs or 83 on my back, how it carries is way more important.

Jeremy, legal hunting for pretty much anything with an atlatl is going to be extremely limited. They are fun for throwing but could never really be considered as a hunting tool except in rare cases for non game animals. MAYBE they are legal somewhere that I don't know about. They are generally (legally) considered a spear, not a projectile.

@ Mike D

I have two dedicated turkey guns. One is a Mossberg 535 Tactical Turkey with adj. stock and short barrel. It weighs in around 7 pounds but is small and handy.

The lightweight one is a Mossberg Super Bantom Youth 20ga Turkey model. It weighs just a tad over 5 pounds. The 20ga shells are lighter too. I feel it's effective out to 35-40 yards. That's 10-15 yards less than I consider the 12ga to be effective, but it's also 2 pounds lighter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVS1UfCfxlU

here is an example lol

@ Jason W

I hadn't considered a youth 20g for reducing weight. After a few miles, those full size shotguns can become awkward.

Consider a youth model synthetic Handi from H&R.
5.3 lbs with open sights.
Switch to a 12 gauge barrel and save another 1/2 lb for turkey season.
The short stock is helpful with bulky clothes and in a turkey blind.
Add other barrels for other game.

Cheap, durable, single shot simplicity.
Won't look as scary on the trail like an AR.
Easily breaks down to stow in a pack.

http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Rifles/handiRifle.asp

Also as mentioned, most compound bows come in under 4 lbs.

Good idea. Also check out the Thompson Center Contender with an aftermarket folding stock. Could be quit light and also very easy to pack around. If you wanted to do the paperwork a SBR version of this would be even easier to carry.
After the world as we know it ends I'm going to get one of these and become a hunter gather out west. Just kidding.

The Handi-Rifle and Pardner Shotguns are good light choices too. Beware of the Ultralight Youth Handi Rifle. I have owned the .243 and the .223 and neither gun would shoot better than 3-4" groups at 50 yards. I tried all the tricks I could find on the net, but never could get them to shoot well. I have a kid that has grown up shooting the Mossberg, so it's just a benefit that I get to use it from time to time.

Ultralight hunting = <20lbs.

Read the following to see how I came to this conclusion, and let me know if I'm about right, or way off base.

Personally, this is how I would look at it:

Create a packing list as if you were just going backpacking. (i.e. appropriate UL gear for the terrain, weather, etc. that the hunt will take place in) ~ <10lbs.

Then, just as you do for your UL backpacking, go over your hunting equipment and decide what you Absolutely MUST have, and what you can do without. For example:

* Substitute the pack in your UL list with an external that can comfortably carry your max load after you've harvested your game.
* Do you really NEED 50 rounds of ammo if you only have one elk/deer/sheep tag? I would take maybe 5.
* Change wood stocks to synthetic.
* Do you really need all those knives? Or can you get away with just a Mora and a folding fiskars saw and finish your work at camp/home/town.
* If possible/desirable, take up traditional bow-hunting with a recurve. (not a compound, weighs just as much as a rifle…)

What else do you need? Everything other than your weapon/ammo and field dressing gear should already be in your UL backpacking list. The only thing you should need to substitute is your pack.

So, what's considered a lightweight production rifle nowadays? 5-6lbs?
Here is my proposed UL hunting weight formula:

(UL gear list – backpack weight) + new backpack + weapon/ammo + Field dressing tools.

So using the above for a rifle hunting trip, using a scope would look something like this(weights approximate, substitute your own actual weights):

Weights in pounds: (8-1)+3+7+.7= ~18lbs.

In short I would say, if you are rifle hunting, under 20 lbs. would be considered ultra light hunting?

Just a few things I've found useful (or hope to)
First lite merino wool…expensive but camo, breathes very well and won't stink like synthetics can wear for days
Ceramic knife (will try this year…to get away from several knives/sharpeners) box cutter w/blades has been good too
Switched from boots with gaiters to wool socks and trail runners…much lighter and feet got wet anyway, now dry much faster
Nikon ed50 spotting scope–way lighter than comparables
Gossamer gear poles with tripod mount for above scope
Golite shangrila so poles r used for tent
Water rx with iodine tabs later neutralized with Vit c
Freeze dried meals

Highly advise against a ceramic knife, otherwise, great list!

I guess Art and all others who oppose hunting are vegetarians. Many people hunt to feed their families, not just sport.
I am packing now for my season that starts in a couple weeks. I have lightned up my gear considerably over the years with the help of this site. I will be using an Exped UL pad this year that is saving me a pound over my exped DM 7 I used last year.I also have a KU pack that I use for most trips but will probably hunt with my Kifaru Longhunter as it hauls meat a bit better. I may hunt with the Ku as it is capable of carrying the first load of meat out, but will switch to the LH pack for the remaining trips.

Yes, a shotgun with interchangeable chokes (rifled choke for slugs, modified choke for small game) would be the most versatile it you're going out for a months-long stay.

But in any case here are my LIGHTWEIGHT long gun suggestions:

1. synthetic stock -> lighter and weather proof
2. iron sights -> far less weight than a scope. But be SURE to use a hunting (larger opening) adjustable peep sight at the rear. Much more accurate than V shaped open rear sights.
3. stainless steel metal parts -> as with the synthetic stock, very weather resistant
4. an "all around caliber". -> like ,243 Win, .308 Win. 30-06, 6.5 mm, etc. Magnum cartridges require heavier rifles and heavier ammo. 12 ga. shotguns are OK. B/C smaller guages may not do all jobs well.
5. light nylon webbing sling -> very weather proof and light (use on a shotgun too).
6. nylon spare cartridge carrier(s). -> light and fairly inexpensive

P.S. an OTIS cleaning kit (W/ only the necessary components for your rifle) is a must – light and compact.

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** UPDATE: I recently bought a Ruger American bolt rifle (in 22-250 for coyotes) and found it to be a light but a very well designed and ACCURATE rifle. Its innovative features for this price are truly amazing (no hyperbole here). Plus it's American made!

In 270 Winchester, 30-06 or .308 you will have a great "mountain rifle" for under $400. street price.
Top this "entry level" light rifle with a decent but lighter scope and aluminum scope rings and you will still likely be around the 7 lb. ballpark. That is "mountain rifle" territory. P.S. Buy an extra magazine – just in case. ($15.)

Not sure what it weighs, but I remember shooting a little Browning compound that seemed lighter than some longbows. It was pretty nice IMO. Someone probably still makes something similar.

this is somewhat off topic…

if you're hunting sustainable species it's fine.

Also… pretty sure polar bears would hunt you for sport. Same as a lion.

In fact lions are known to hunt for pleasure / sport

My domestic cats hunt for sport.

I expect a bow would work better than a rifle since the weight is uniformly distributed. You could probably just strap it to your pack.

I have been wanting to pick up a little .22 revolver for backpacking. It would be a lot of fun to small game hunt with it. Challenging, but fun.