“Ultralight hunting”

[David Ure]

Here is some information on lightweight hunting and related gear from an expert on the subject, Mark Seacat.

http://wiredtohunt.com/2009/12/22/exclusive-interview-with-mark-seacat-of-outdoor-lifes-live-hunt-with-mark-seacat/

[Art …]

if you absolutely need to kill something to prove to yourself you're a man, at least have the balls to meet the animal on its own terms.
no guns, no bow and arrow, just a hunting knife between you and the victim so you can look him in the eyes.

[Nick Gatel]

Art,

I don't hunt. Never have. But ranting here is not going to accomplish anything positive.

[Dustin Short]

Art, A BPL Staff member has already commented that your posts are inappropriate for this thread.

I would love to argue hunting ethics, but please create another thread in Chaff to do so (you could even place the link in this thread so we can find the discussion). What you are doing is hijacking another individuals thread to promote and impose your beliefs onto others. This is in no way polite. The rudeness causes people to dismiss your arguments and to ignore your message, which is counterproductive to your goals.

As for lightening your hunting gear someone mentioned blowpipes. I think I could convert a trekking pole into one pretty easily. Then my base weight wouldn't change at all except for the cost of lightweight darts!

[Add] Dave's got a pretty good point about multi-sport pursuits. One reason to go UL is simply so that you can carry your non-hiking specific gear more comfortably. Whether it be fishing/hunting/climbing/skiing/moonshining/etc. I know they do make some UL pack rifles but my understanding is their limited to small game and not that useful for large mammals.

[EndoftheTrail]

No one cares to comment about using a blowpipe? Seriously, I saw some folks demonstrating those things in Borneo earlier this year — and they sure can be pretty darn accurate and effective — and, of curse, UL too!!

[Cayenne Redmonk]

I like darts.

[Adam Kilpatrick]

It looks pretty effective. Carbon fibre tube version with titanium shaft/cuben fibre feathered darts? Customise your trekking pole to multi-use as a blowdart tube?

[David Olsen]

"No one cares to comment about using a blowpipe? Seriously, I saw some folks demonstrating those things in Borneo earlier this year — and they sure can be pretty darn accurate and effective — and, of curse, UL too!!"

Sorry Ben, blowguns are a felony to own in Ca.

[David Ure]

"Sorry Ben, blowguns are a felony to own in Ca."

Oh the irony.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

UL backpacking gear comined with a UL rifle and only 5 rounds of ammo would be my definition.

UL RIFLE> A stainless bolt action – preferrably 3 lug bolt for faster 2nd shots
cartridge depends on game but .308 Win. is an all-around cartridge
synthetic stock W/ aluminum bedding block moulded in (for accuracy)
Thin titanium barrel wrapped in carbon fiber for needed stiffness (They make 'em!)
lightweight single power high quality scope (say 4X) and aluminum rings
light nylon webbing sling

P.S. I took the OP seriously and didn't use this thread as a soapbox for anti-hunting rants. If you don't like hunting post it elsewhere. Respect the OPs, please.

Obviously this site needs a "SOAPBOX" get-it-off-your-chest forum for ranting, as found on Outdoors Magic's site.

There. Now I feel better.

P.S. GOGGLE "Scout Style Rifles" to find the kind of all-around rifle I'm talking about. A "Scout type rifle is light and fast to use and usually in the .308 Win. class of cartridges. Savage Arms makes a nice, lower cost but accurate rifle something like this.

[Art …]

Nick, normally I would delete my posts and just move on if others feel they're not appropriate.
If a BPL member wants to delete them so be it.
I'm sorry but this is too serious an issue to just gloss over with an HYOH attitude.

Those who kill other creatures from a safe distance for sport are simply disrespecting life itself.

[Trace Richardson]

A UL hunting kit would seem to need include everything a traditional backpacking list would be in addition to possibly: ammo / weapon, misc weapon tools (esp for archery), processing tools, bagging / carrying rig, calls, scent eliminators if you use them and probably a few other misc items.

Hunting gear manufacturers don't operate under the same definitions of lightweight or UL that we do and their "UL" products show it ….. if the traditional backpacking / big store backpacking brands don't really get UL, then put hunting gear manufacturers a decade or two behind them … :)

Traditional hunting methodologies could really take some great cues from UL backpacking concepts …. since a successful hunt means carrying a substantially larger amount of weight post kill, hunters have even more incentive to lighten their load while bringing organic, horomone and pesticide free food back to the table. Wildlife management, organic food, contributing revenue to wildlife conservation, visiting our roots in hunting WHILE getting to backpack? Yes, please! :)

[David Chenault]

I have no interest in deleting anything Art, nor in curtailing your or anyone's beliefs. I do think it will be more productive if you post in a place where the context won't be already predisposed to acrimony (e.g. at least something of a threadjack).

[Jonathan Rozes]

There are so many variables above and beyond weather and terrain that influence gear selection for any particular hunt, that I think it's futile to try and come up with any kind of broadly applicable standard.

There's also the issue of moral and ethical variance. Everybody has a different idea (some wildly so, unfortunately) of what it means to kill quickly and cleanly, and what constitutes an acceptable level of meat care, and these lead to differing gear requirements in otherwise identical situations.

Personally, my FSO for an October rifle elk hunt in the Cascades is presently ~10 lbs. above what I'd have for a backpacking trip at the same time and in the same area.

[Jeremy and Angela]

As an alternative to a rifle, you can try something like this:

GrizzlyStik Qarbon Nano Longbow
http://www.3riversarchery.com/Product.asp?show=info&c=44&s=170&p=339&i=1000X#full

Supposedly weighs about 2 lbs for the entire bow; add in some arrows for only a few oz more.

Unfortunately, I didn't find a weight for an atlatl (http://www.atlatl.com/), but that should be much lighter.

[stephan q]

Great thread.
@ Eric- What would that rig cost? I thought .22LR was the base line. AR-7, Rem 24, LPR, ect. stephan.

[Art …]

David starting a new thread where everyone basically agrees with me would change nothing, so in that regard injecting my thoughts here was deliberate. If just one hunter decides to reflect on what he's doing it will have been worth it.
With that said, I'll shut up, and leave this thread to those who want to plan their future kills.

[Trace Richardson]

@Art: The personal and sacred truths you believe with passionately are held by others as well with just as much passion you hold for yours but theirs may be different and unique. They believe with just as much passion as you do in their own personal truths.

Ever had someone push their religion on you and warn you of the consequences of not following their lead? Did it work to convince you that your truth was wrong? Likely not.

If you are against something, engage in meaningful action to educate and help enlighten others with your truth in the right context and forum, of which this is not. Pushing your truth on others will only serve to discredit your message, limit credibility in future discussion and earn you a label as a troll. You're better than that. You can hijack a thread by being the loudest, but you'll likely be the least heard. More importantly, I don't think ANYONE could convince me to buy a store bought turkey for Thanksgiving instead of hunting wild turkey …. it's more healthy and one less Turkey that is purchased from a factory farm. :)

[Jason Williams]

I have been thinking about this more and more, since taking up lightweight backpacking.

I believe, like most things ultralight, there should be classes of weight targets. A rifle hunter going after elk in Colorado isn't going to be nearly as light as a long bow hunter in mid September in Tennessee. I did some back country hunting in Alaska, but it wasn't lightweight. My biggest drawback is not wanting to shot a large animal a long distance from my truck. I see turkey hunting in the back country as more appealing. No decoys, just mouth calls and 1 slate. I have a lightweight shotgun, but it's still a heavy item.

A long bow would probably be the lightest, commonly legal, effective hunting implement. I am a bow hunter mostly, but my compound is still way heavier than long bow. A handgun might be a lighter option for those not interested in archery.

Small game hunting can be done with a Ruger 22/45 with a pac-lite upper. A nice lightweight pistol capable of great accuracy. I have consider taking one of these on all my back country trips.

[Art …]

Trace of course you are right.
passion does often overwhelm reason, its the story of mankind.

[Kattt]

Art, do you eat meat or fish?

[Art …]

Kat I'm trying to pull out of this thread like the hunters want me to, so I won't go there.

[Kattt]

Fair enough. See ya on a better thread :)

[Mike Dombrowski]

@ Jason

I too would like to see weight classes defined probably because I am also one of those people that struggles with gray areas.

Turkey and predator hunting make for the easiest lightweight backcountry hunts. I hear you on that one. I've got to ask, what make/model is your lightweight shotgun?

From what I've been able to find, rifle weight classes seem to be something like this…

UL – 5lbs 4 oz
Lightweight – 6 to 6 lbs 8 oz

A Ruger 22/45 with a pac-lite upper has been tempting me for a long time. Handgun hunting requires much skill and is a worthy challenge. There are a few lightweight models for big game as well (ie S&W 329 XL Hunter @ 935.6g / 33oz).

Archery would be something to try, but after sustaining a shoulder injury during the war, I can't get through a full practice session before the pain overwhelms me. This is where a lightweight/UL bow may make the difference.

@ Jonathan

~10 lbs FSO in addtion to the comparible season UL kit does sound like a good benchmark to aim for if backcountry hunting. I would agree with this but I must admit, it tells me I've got some weight shaving to do! My time in the field takes place during March through November in the Colorado rockies (6,500ft – 12,500ft, I don't go any higher). 3 season here requires gear that can handle ~10 degrees and up.

[Kevin @ Seek Outside]

This has been discussed on other forums, but it's hard to get below 18lbs, and most UL hikers that hunt still think about 25 – 30 lb is the limit for all in. You need to be prepared to responsibly harvest meat and not waste an animals life because you were to concerned with being light.

For Elk etc, you have to consider you are not going out in summer time conditions usually. You could see temps to 0 F, you could be in significant snow. It's a shoulder season. You need gear to keep you warm, since you might not be moving or may be moving very slowly in rain / sleet/ snow. It's a different beast. You will often be off trail , on steep slopes, in timber or brush. If you are serious, you often do not choose your path. The animal movements, terrain and wind choose it for you.

Normally you need to add this stuff to weight
– A caliber Rifle to get the job done , scope , sufficient ammo
– Game bags, and care
– More substantial pack, sufficient probably for 60 lbs minimum
– Quality optics, range finder to take responsible shots

In the end, it's lots of extra weight. I know an extremely fit mountaineering person, that compared his first hunt to being very similar to an expedition. Early rise, late bed, can't be choosy about conditions (if it's a 50 MPH wind and 10 degrees, it is what it is). You could be very wet depending on conditions.

There is a large difference between driving around looking for things to shoot, and backpacking in to take a large animal. It can be a pretty big undertaking.

Responsible hunting is actually greener and more humane than eating feedlot food.

[Author]

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