Topic

An ultralight life?


Forum Posting

A Membership is required to post in the forums. Login or become a member to post in the member forums!

Home Forums General Forums Philosophy & Technique An ultralight life?

  • This topic is empty.
Viewing 25 posts - 26 through 50 (of 61 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1832965
    Ken Thompson
    BPL Member

    @here

    Locale: Right there

    That is a beautiful story Cesar. Sounds pretty perfect. Enjoy! +1 on ditching the BS.

    #1832971
    David Thomas
    BPL Member

    @davidinkenai

    Locale: North Woods. Far North.

    Cesar, Thanks for your story. You express yourself well and it makes me think the options we all have.

    In some ways we live lightly on the land/ecomony: the very efficient house I built, no TV, few electronics, no snowmachines, ATCs, power boats (very unusual choices in my area), no truck (but a killer rack on the Corolla), no guns.

    And yet there are ways we splurge and indulge ourselves. Especially with travel (which is NOT low-carbon footprint) – my 11-year-old has been to 50 states, 2 territories and 15 countries. Lots of books around the house and while I really love the concept of libraries and we use them a lot, I wish their books had RF/ID tags in them so they were easier to find.

    Before kids, we did a lot of outdoor travel – hiking, BPing and kayaking mostly. Now the kids are getting big enough that we can move beyond cabin trips, car camping, and fair-weather backpacking. That's much of what brought me to BPL – I knew that new gear and techniques could leverage my 50-year-old body and 20-year-old skills to do more comfortable and fun trips as a family.

    #1833129
    Sarah Kirkconnell
    BPL Member

    @sarbar

    Locale: Homesteading On An Island In The PNW

    I'll say this for home ownership – it has never been about the money for me. I grew up with a Dad who passed up many chances to buy affordable homes that my Mother would have given nearly everything to be in. My Dad was restless and every couple of years would uproot us and move, often with only weeks notice. I HATED it. He was self employed so would randomly pick a new area to move to and then set shop back up. He was able to do this by never buying a home. Kept himself free.

    Having a home that is MINE is huge to me – and to anyone who grew up similar to me might just understand that feeling.

    What I love most is it is ours to do what we want. I have my blueberry plantation, my front yard is all lavender, my herbal garden.

    I am fortunate that my husband is handy and has the tools – we have remodeled much of our home.

    Sure, renting has advantages but at the same time? Just how much beige can one take? Beige walls, beige carpet. Cookie cutter homes and apartments. It is never truly a "home". The first time I picked out a new door I realized just how much it meant to me! I actually enjoy our "dates" to Home Depot :-P

    Learn to do repairs. Learn to do maintenance. Find a good repairman who does general work. Prevent big bills by keeping up. When all else fails we trade help with friends (you help me, we help you).

    #1833245
    Ike Jutkowitz
    BPL Member

    @ike

    Locale: Central Michigan

    Owning a home can be nice. We bought ours, a small but stately older home on some very private land, for what we thought was a very affordable price. However, now the house is the biggest obstacle standing between us and financial freedom. When the economy tanked, Michigan was hit very hard and still hasn't recovered. Our house depreciated by probably 25%. We'd love to move closer to family, but would have to come up with money to do significant repairs both inside and out, and then, even if we were able to sell it, it would be at a big loss.

    I would consider buying again but it would be cheaper and smaller, with less to maintain. First I'd rent (again as cheaply as possible) to quickly built capital and to make sure I was in a place I wanted to stay for some time.

    #1833246
    BlackHatGuy
    Spectator

    @sleeping

    Locale: The Cascades

    "Learn to do repairs. Learn to do maintenance. Find a good repairman who does general work. Prevent big bills by keeping up. When all else fails we trade help with friends (you help me, we help you)."

    Obviously, to each his or her own. I know how to do repairs and maintenance. I remodeled three rooms in my house – down to the studs and then built back up – by myself. It's just not how I want to spend my time in the future.

    As to how much beige one can take, plenty of rentals will let you paint, as long as you turn it back to beige when you move. And a significant number of stand alone homes out there are cookie cutter as well – I live in such a neighborhood, as do many, many other people. There are three 'house plans' in my neighborhood, so every third house is just like yours (except for color, yard, etc).

    It means a lot to you, so obviously it's important for you to have your own home. I think it's great that you do. Owning a home means nothing to me, though, so renting just isn't a problem at all. And I'd rather spend my time on other things than home maintenance and yard upkeep – but I'm not a gardener and never will be.

    #1833257
    Ty Ty
    Member

    @tylerd

    Locale: SE US

    Ike – You and I are on the same page. I think when you love what you do for a living the conversation is much different. When you don't necessarily love your career (maybe not hate it but don't find fulfillment with it) you start thinking why? I spend all my time working at something I don't love to afford crap I don't need. I think you are taking the right steps thinking along the lines of the Dave Ramsey paydown methods. It seems like you make good money and are able to knock stuff like this out. I think the main thing I am hearing from you (and applies to me) is make sure your wife is on board. Their situation may differ based on their level of enjoyment or dislike of their work. Sounds like your wife might enjoy a simpler life for her jewelry thing. My wife does not work right now, when she finishes her degree she will LOVE what she is doing so it is a little harder for her to understand my discontent.

    As far as owning versus renting I think the pro/cons are obvious as far as renting means no maintenance and ability to pick up and move easily. Homes mean 'home' and roots and that can be a big thing to someone. The issue to me with renting is you will never be done, you will always be one month's rent from being booted. Owning a house, having it paid off provides a level of security especially if it is a low maintenance home in the country where yard maintenance is not required. As long as you pay the taxes on it there is nobody to kick you out. Also owning a home in the country means opportunity for food production (garden, chickens, rabbits, goats maybe) which can further insulate you from needing high income.

    In my case I have a young child so I have to be in a good school district. My version of this is going to be eventually to sell my larger home (2,800 sf) 15 miles from work (in the 'country' but really in a neighborhood) and buy a smaller (1800 – 2000 sf), low maintenance home on a postage stamp size lot (very little yard maintenance), in a neighborhood where my son will have plenty of kids to play with, a mile from schools and my office (save gas/travel time). I will spend about $100,000 less on what I am talking about which will almost cut my mortgage in half. In the mean time my wife will finish graduate school and start earning some money. Our income will be in overdrive while our expenses will be cut by 30% or more. My goal is to pump our savings up to about 40-50% of earnings, pay off her school debt and house in short order and by the time I am 40 (9 years) have no debt, tons of savings, and a lot more choices by age 40 than my peers with big houses, new vehicles, boats, etc. I want to focus our expendable income on having positive life/family experiences, activities, travel, etc versus houses, cars, boats, etc. I want to maximize our lives with our money versus maximizing possessions. I don't want to sacrifice my life for my family (really just a big lie, mostly people do this for their own prestige though possessions) I want to live my life to the fullest with my family, not stuck in an office away from them.

    #1833265
    Kattt
    BPL Member

    @kattt

    "As to how much beige one can take, plenty of rentals will let you paint, as long as you turn it back to beige when you move. And a significant number of stand alone homes out there are cookie cutter as well – I live in such a neighborhood, as do many, many other people. There are three 'house plans' in my neighborhood, so every third house is just like yours (except for color, yard, etc)."

    Yup. Cookie cutter homes and beige have little to do with renting.
    I rent the most adorable little house/ cabin. All of it was done with love; the bench seat in the mud room is made from a piece of redwood burl , given 62 years ago as a wedding gift. It is a little jewel of a home and sure, I would love to own it, but we have made it our "home".
    These absolutes are just killing me.

    #1833271
    Kattt
    BPL Member

    @kattt

    ….and I made my yard, my curtains, extended the roof on the back porch and now I am trying to separate the back of the cabin from the wilderness a bit with some trellises and vines . I have never felt more at home in a place as I do here, and I appreciate it every day.

    #1833349
    Ty Ty
    Member

    @tylerd

    Locale: SE US

    Kat sounds like you are the type of renter every landlord wants but can't find.

    This house I live in now is the first one I have bought. I have rented apartments and houses both bland and some with a touch of flare in the past. One thing you notice when you buy a house versus renting is you wake up on Saturday thinking…'hmm what do I want to do today? go fishing? hiking? run some errands? or just relax?' When you own a house you wake up on Saturdays often thinking to yourself 'hmmm should I go to Home Depot or Lowes today and blow a wad of cash on X,Y, or Z?'

    But I do think owning a modest home and paying it off, if you can deal with the maintenance and lack of mobility, is the best way to reach a minimal/low income required lifestyle. With rent that is a constantly monthly nut that has to be paid which means either constant income or enough money in the bank to throw off interest to pay the rent. At least in the context of freeing yourself up to do something different/irregular/etc.

    #1833359
    Ty Ty
    Member

    @tylerd

    Locale: SE US
    #1833365
    Sarah Kirkconnell
    BPL Member

    @sarbar

    Locale: Homesteading On An Island In The PNW

    Owning doesn't mean one spends their time tied down – for example I ripped out all the labor intensive plants/lawn our house came with and replaced them with money saving crops that produce. Now I do little besides water once in awhile/prune. As for home repairs/remodeling that needn't eat up time – unless one wants it to! I don't wake up most weekends thinking about repairs. When not preggo, we go hiking :-P

    As for renting to avoid repairs? Only if you have a GOOD landlord!!!! Welcome to the world of cheap owners – who buy used appliances, do horrid jobs on repairing the heat, pay for the lowest bid on getting a new well drilled (yep, I have lived in TWO houses where wells went dry!!), having a septic system fail and the landlord paid the cheapest place to come and my yard reeked of a stagnant outhouse for months. Getting less than 30 days notice your landlord lost their jobs and need to move into the house – that one was fun.

    There is something to be said for being able to buy nice appliances, pick good repairmen and get stuff done without having to threaten legal action (in the case of the second well going dry we had to threaten it after having no water for a week!)

    #1833374
    Nick Gatel
    BPL Member

    @ngatel

    Locale: Southern California

    As I stated earlier, home ownership is a personal decision and is not for everyone.

    What one wants out of home ownership is up to the individual. For some folks it is ego and a competition with friends and neighbors. For others it is a constant battle of keeping things up and spending time and money doing it. It is all about how you approach it.

    You can make you house the center piece of your existence, or make it much less. I chose much less. I have been remodeling my house for going on 12 years. I could hire a contractor, do all of the work non-stop to "git er done," or finish it when convenient. So my priority is to camp, hike, then house. The master bath has been gutted since 2000. I'll get to it soon or maybe later. All but the master bedroom has cement floors, I'll get to that soon or maybe later. The roof started leaking a couple years ago, and I have patched it. I'll replace it soon or maybe later… probably soon, the boss wants that done now and the rest done soon :(

    But I don't stress about it. I like nice landscaping, but that requires weekly maintenance in a climate without snow… well worth $110 per month for a gardener… that $110 a month frees up every weekend for things I would rather do.

    I bought the house new in 1978 and some things are starting to need replacement or repair. Still using the original HVAC unit, although I had to replace the AC condensing unit about 25 years ago. As long as I can find needed replacement parts, I'll just continue repairing it.

    To me the important thing to me is that it is MINE; well I actually rent it from the county, given that I am forced to pay property taxes every year. And some people could care less about the "mine."

    So just do what works for you. There is a lot to be said about renting… may pluses; just as there are with home ownership. What works for one person, doesn't work for another. And when you own a home, it is much more difficult to pick up and move, especially in this economy.

    #1833379
    Ty Ty
    Member

    @tylerd

    Locale: SE US

    "Owning doesn't mean one spends their time tied down – for example I ripped out all the labor intensive plants/lawn our house came with and replaced them with money saving crops that produce. Now I do little besides water once in awhile/prune. As for home repairs/remodeling that needn't eat up time – unless one wants it to! I don't wake up most weekends thinking about repairs. When not preggo, we go hiking :-P"

    Sarah – this brings up point of discussion, owning in or out of a neighborhood. If you are in a neighborhood you likely can't plant crops, maybe a little in a backyard but at a minimum the front yard will have to be maintained to the standards of the neighborhood. If you live in the country on a piece of land you could be buying a lot of labor intensive work of a different kind. Sounds like you have found a balance that works for you, that is important.

    I disagree though that home repairs "needn't eat up time – unless one wants it to" though. All of those same things that happened to you in your rentals happen when you own too. Appliances break down, heat and ac systems break (usually not a do it yourself reapair, wells go dry, septic systems fail and all of these repairs and more have to be done, you can't just decide to leave the septic system on the frits for example. It all costs time and money and money costs more time. When you rent at least the financial responsibility falls on someone else.

    The simplest, possibly cheapest, is to live in a decent apartment owned/run by a reputable landlord. In my experience commercial operations like this (exempting the worst/bottom of the barrel) are run pretty professionally, have decently responsive maintenance staffs, and take things like the heat going out pretty seriously. In my experience if you select based on good recommendations and reviews you can live without the majority of these problems. Bad thing is they usually try to raise the rent every year when your lease expires and you are typically in a bland/beige type apartment but if you want low cost, ability to pick up and move, no maintenance…this is about as good as it gets.

    #1833381
    Dirk Rabdau
    Member

    @dirk9827

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    I enjoyed this thread because like many of you, I've made good and bad decisions, and a ton of compromises.

    The rent vs. own house thing is interesting.

    I was a solid renter, which made sense when home prices were very high and rents much more affordable. This makes sense as a long-term strategy if you invest the difference between the monthly mortgage/insurance/taxes/maintenance costs and the less expensive rent payment. There are economists who have argue rather persuasively that this is the better financial decision(and again, huge caveat) long term. When you look at historic performance of real estate vs. stock market, the latter has been the better performer over time, plus most investment strategies provide far better liquidity and greater access to cash than does real estate, which isn't easily converted into capital. In recent years, real estate has taken such a huge hit that rents are actually much higher now when compared to some home costs, because people who lost houses still have to live somewhere, and there are only so many rentals to go around.

    All that said, there is piece of mind to owning your own little piece of property, and as I heard one economist put it, "Don't think of your home as an investment, think of it as a place you live and enjoy a quality of life." Certainly you can enjoy a great quality of life in a rental, in a tent, or in a trailer. But for some people security of ownership is important to them – yes, it might be an illusion, but isn't all security an illusion?

    I got married at age 39 for the first time a couple of years ago to a woman who has a little house and it is very important to her. Me? I actually was fine renting and being able to move whenever I want. But for her, it's something tangible, something secure, an oasis. I never though of my apartment as anything but a sort of messy place that holds too much hiking gear, but as my wife is very important to me, I am willing to make the house a priority. It's all good. And we should be able to pay off this thing in under five years.

    Dirk

    #1833386
    JASON CUZZETTO
    BPL Member

    @cuzzettj

    Locale: NorCal - South Bay

    You have all said so much really well I just want to add this.

    We paid off our cars last year. The two broke down with in a week of eachother last month and are major fixes. I already car pooled and my wife has wanted to get the 4 kids and her self on bikes and in carpools for a while. It has payed off over the last month!

    All of the sudden we can't make the $200 – 300 trip to the grocery (bi-weekly) and the weekly extra trip ($150+). We aren't eating out as much, and we are buying only what we can carry home in a pack or by hand. I don't have hard figures yet but I am saving about $250 a week on food and dinning out and the food has been so much better than it was before. Food is fresher and snacks are fresher too. This is amazing to me!!! I am saving nearly a $1000 a month. Yes we were overeating.

    We are also renters. So instead of buying a house in a Silicon valley market that is just plain out of my range, we bought into a place called R-Ranch up in Napa. We own a share of the property, it is a community, you can stay there over 200 days a year. There are horses and over 1000 acres. It is more my wife's thing. But the place is a lot of fun. We are looking at a few more of these now for when the kids move out. You can buy the shares for less than a grand, pay dues yearly of $1200 or less and have fun, cool, relaxing outdoor places to go.

    We originally got it as a vacation place because most vacations for 6 are out of our price range other than the backpacking and camping I love. My wife is a teacher. She lost 40 pounds last summer alone and an additional 10 since September. There are options out there for alternate places to live that won't break the bank!

    Take care.

    #1833402
    Ty Ty
    Member

    @tylerd

    Locale: SE US

    Okay you can call me a redneck if you want but I have a theory as far as being a minimalist and owning a home that I think kind of compromises a lot of what we are talking about…own a piece of land in the country and put a mobile home/trailer on it.

    So yeah maybe this is a redneck thing to do but think about it…

    Mobile homes are cheap, much cheaper than a house. You can buy them used and some of them are really nice. When it gets aged and starts to give you problems you sell it, have it towed away and a new one plopped down in it's place. It's not going to win you any popularity contests but I think it could be a simple, cheap way to own.

    Some other advantages…you can save up and buy the ideal piece of land then save up for a cheap mobile home to put out there, you can get a used, clean single wide for I think $20-$30K. When/if you are ready you can upgrade to a double or triple wide, keep the single for a guest house or trade it in. Low property taxes on this setup.

    If you don't think about the 'image'/ prestige issue it's actually a pretty cool option. You could also do this until you have time/money saved up to build a house on your property. This could be used as a way to ease into a single family home, on a nice piece of property, without going into debt.

    Now how to pitch this to my wife :) Hmmmm.

    #1833405
    Kattt
    BPL Member

    @kattt

    Oh Ty Ty, you just walked in a lion's den…let the games begin….
    ;) kinda

    #1833407
    David Thomas
    BPL Member

    @davidinkenai

    Locale: North Woods. Far North.

    You gotta love a place where the houses have wheels and the cars don't.

    #1833409
    Travis Leanna
    BPL Member

    @t-l

    Locale: Wisconsin

    Ty,
    I've thought about something similar. Save up money to buy a great piece of land, but put something like a Yurt on it overlooking some fabulous vista. You can find hardier, 4-season yurts.

    #1833412
    David Thomas
    BPL Member

    @davidinkenai

    Locale: North Woods. Far North.

    That's not uncommon in Alaska in several forms. Buy a few acres for $5,000 to $10,000. Then slap up a 12×12 cabin. Or bring in a travel trailer. Or, as you suggest, the mobile home option. We all like to camp and any of those are much more comfortable than camping. And they are all MUCH cheaper and closer to nature than a house or apartment in the city.

    I'll note though, that people seem to shoot at trailers more than at cabins. Maybe a motor vehicle in the woods looks more abandoned while the cabin may have a well-armed, paranoid sociopath inside. Heck, it probably does.

    #1833413
    Travis Leanna
    BPL Member

    @t-l

    Locale: Wisconsin

    David,
    My parent's have a 16×20 cabin in the national forest. The guy next to us has a trailer. Guess which one has a bullet hole in it?

    #1833420
    David Thomas
    BPL Member

    @davidinkenai

    Locale: North Woods. Far North.

    Ty,

    Here's a couple living in off-the-road-system in Seldovia, Alaska in a yurt:

    http://www.groundtruthtrekking.org/About/

    And they topped all of us as thru-hikers: Bellingham, WA to the Aleutian Islands ON FOOT (and packraft) over 1.5 years. Bushwhacking and beach walking the whole way. Their book was a pretty good read, although for high-lattitude trips of thousands of miles, Jill Fredston (Rowing to Lattitude) is the better writer.

    #1833423
    EndoftheTrail
    BPL Member

    @ben2world-2

    Tyler:

    Just to play contrarian… Buying that "ideal" piece of property out in the country and plopping down a cheap trailer…

    1. For your personal bliss, you may be ruining the scenery for everyone else
    2. What about utilities — unless you are going to rely on solar and wind power??
    3. Trash and organic refuse?

    Not referring to you specifically, but seems like a lot of people want to "get away" from others — but take a lot of the mod cons with them? !?! The way I see it — we've trashed our cities enough. Why trash the country (or what's left of it)? Rent or own, I'd rather just live within the urban area — utilize the public services that are already built — and not blaze (trash) yet another piece of nature.

    As a comparison… we're all told that when hiking, if there are existing campsites, then we should use them and not create new ones. I look at the whole world (Nature) as one — with our cities being the established campsites. No one ever admires the aesthetics of established campsites — but they serve the purpose of keeping the rest of the place pristine.

    The exception is if you commit yourself to truly living off the country (ultra light?) – and not bring the mod cons with you.

    #1833434
    Ty Ty
    Member

    @tylerd

    Locale: SE US

    Ben – that is an interesting point of view. I had not thought about it that way. You are also right in that once you have your piece of land in the country what will you be doing, most of the stuff to do is in town…now you are driving back and forth to town.

    I guess in my mind I am thinking more along the lines of the county north of my town, it's already pretty well de-countryfied with a lot of planted pine trees, small farms and such, not a lot of natural beauty to be destroyed by plopping down one more dwelling but if you are talking about a very pristine area your point is very strong.

    Although while possibly less pleasing to the eye, a trailer is probably lower impact as it not permanently attached. When you drop down a pad and build a home you are virtually guaranteeing that house is going to be there, rotting away for the next 50-60 years.

    #1833439
    Ken Thompson
    BPL Member

    @here

    Locale: Right there

    We had a condo once. You could go away for a month and it was just fine when you got back. Lawn mowed, trash picked up. Easy.
    Now we have a house.
    I grew up in condos and never had to do yard work until I was in my 30s.
    I miss the condo.

Viewing 25 posts - 26 through 50 (of 61 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Forum Posting

A Membership is required to post in the forums. Login or become a member to post in the member forums!

Get the Newsletter

Get our free Handbook and Receive our weekly newsletter to see what's new at Backpacking Light!

Gear Research & Discovery Tools


Loading...