How often backpacking?

>> As you can guess this is a nightmare packing in the scout trailer, as it takes a lot of time and takes up a lot of space. With the one-bag policy, where do you guys sit at the campout? We like the boys to have a chair on car campouts so they have somewhere to sit while we do instructional topics.

That's exactly why we implemented the "one bag, no hands" rule. We had a small troop trailer (6'x10'), and it was used as both a general storage shed AND gear shuttle. Our Scouts would do exactly like yours… Separate duffel, sleeping bag, an extra bag with some clothes, maybe a plastic bag with extra shoes, and a pillow! When we loaded up all that gear, our trailer was overloaded, and when we got to camp, we'd have "gear vomit" all over the parking lot when the trailer doors were opened.

We don't enforce the rule for brand new scouts, but seeing the older boys doing it usually motivates them to fall in line. We also let the rule slide just a bit for week-long resident camps.

As for sitting… Most of the campouts where we might be sitting around already provide picnic tables or benches (summer camp, state parks, etc.). For campouts where we're staying in a base camp and expecting rain, we may allow chairs. For those where we're getting off the beaten path, the scout is still free to bring a chair, but it has to be lashed to their pack. Some have picked up lighter three-legged stools. Most fore go it.

Never heard of them, but I'll check them out now. Having a few extra sounds like a good idea for new scouts.

When we started, we didn't know if 11 year olds could pull off a backpack, and the norn in other troops was to require first class, and/or 13 years old. But it has worked out just fine. The kids who really want to car camp go to other troops, and the kids who want to backpack come to our troop. On any one backpack, there will be only a handful of kids totally new to backpacking, and they learn pretty quickly from the more experienced scouts.

The trick to getting a troop to do more backpacking is to have a bunch of parents in favor of it and willing to go on backpacks. You need maybe 4 parents passionate about backpacking, for leadership, and maybe half the parents preferring backpacking for their kids.

We do an outdoor overnight every other month during fall, winter, and spring. On the months we aren't doing an overnight, we do day hikes or other activities (backcountry skiing, rock climbing, ice climbing, survival skills training, sledding, etc.)

Overnight trips vary from car camping to short overnight hikes, to overnight backcountry ski trips.

Every summer, we do a multi-day backpacking trip. Depending on the age of the boys in the patrol, it varies from 2 to 5 nights.

I'm a retired SM and I have some very strong feelings about this issue.

The bottom line is if the unit isn’t getting outside, the troop will die.

The troop I was associated with had been around for 40 years when my oldest son and I started with them. At that point they had a very outdoor activity oriented SM, who was preceded by a not so outdoor activity oriented SM. During the year or so before when the troop was not so outdoor activity oriented, the unit lost about a dozen boys.

When the outdoor activity oriented SM began his tenure, he cautioned that he intended the unit to be out side doing something every month. We – and five other families – joined the troop about three months into his tenure because they were active.

I took over two years later and continued that tradition. Both of us had annual and semi-annual planning meetings where the Scouts brain stormed what they wanted to do, followed by a parents meeting where we (only sometimes) brought in a dose of reality. Starting with my predecessor, the troop went for nearly eight years (I was SM for 6 years) with backpacking, camping, or paddling trips every month, and sometimes even more often.

Both of us emphasized backpacking more than just car camping and during that time we averaged about 25 active Scouts with another 10 – 15 less active to inactive registered boys. The Scouts frequently wanted to return to hikes and spots they’d gone to before and we would occasionally let them, but more often than not we would encourage new hikes in the same region. We tried to rotate the trips by both distance from home, distance for the hike (some were car camping in wilderness areas, to some as long as ten miles in), and terrain (forest, desert, mountainous, or beach – ocean, Colorado River, or Lake Mead/Lake Mojave).

Being from we hiked within about a 300 mile radius, with the majority of trips being either to the southern Sierras (averaging about 150 miles round trip for driving). The best year I had was one when the troop got weathered out (rain, snow, and oppressive heat for the location) four times during the year. The Scouts insisted we find another trip on short notice and they stuck with their planned outings for the year (that year it was twelve troop activities, Fall and Spring Camporees and Summer Camp).

After I retired and moved away, the new SM was a more not so outdoor activity oriented guy. The first year, he stuck with the monthly pace, but starting the second year he actually discouraged hikes because it didn’t fit his vacation schedule. By the third year there were less than ten Scouts actively involved with the troop. That was when he declared there wasn’t enough interest to go backpacking (he had three active ASM’s). The fourth year, after more than fifty years, the troop folded.

It’s an old saying, put the outing in Scouting, but it is a key element for any troop.

Im an ASM in Central OH and our troop has been having sucess with having Adventure (Under 10 mi weekends) and High Adventure for the older guys that do up to 32 Mi in a weekend but usually in the 16-20 mile range. We are lucky to have some phenominal hiking areas in Ohio that are under 2.5 hrs away (Zaleski, Shawnee, Archers Fork, Twin Valleys, Mohican State Park, Buckeye Trail..ect) our schedule this year is :

Jan Cabin Camping with weblos
Feb. Backpacking 1st class scouts and above 16 mi
Mar. 10 mi Sat training hike then next weekend
Backpacking Adventure and High Adventure Level 9.4 mi + I wil have 9 adults and 17 youth
April 10 mi Sat training hike then next weekend
Base camp for lower level scouts and high adventure backpacking trip
May Base camp for lower level scouts and high adventure backpacking trip

June 4 day Monongohila high adventure trip
sea base
Summer camp
July Philmont
Aug Canoe Trip
Sept back packing
Oct 3 day KY backpacking trip
Nov-wilderness survival campout making own shelters
Dec. Cabin camping

Our troop schedules a backpacking trip monthly. Once set up, the trip goes rain or shine. This weekend, we were at the Pinnacles National Monument and it stormed with rain, sleet, and hail all weekend. Some parents wanted the trip cancelled, but 13 of us went and I was highly impressed with how the boys did. The prior month, we hiked 20 miles at Point Reyes, California. Again, it is easy to underestimate how well the boys will do.

Thanks, steve

Checking the schedule, we've had five or six backpacking trips each year for the past couple of years. I'm not counting the 1/2 mile walk-in campouts, like the rafting trip or camporee. That does include high adventure treks.

We always schedule a couple of three mile backpack outings in the late spring to get the new Scouts some time on the trail. We also have a few outings where we can split off a Venture Patrol for a longer, more challenging route to the same destination.

All our campouts are with backpacking gear. We don't have chuckboxes or dutch ovens. Nobody has a chair or a cot, they spent that money on a backpack or a sleeping bag.

We do not limit backpacking to older Scouts. Tenderfoot requirement 1 says, in part, "Show the camping gear you will use. Show the right way to pack and carry it." Not "how you will load it on the trailer."

We also don't have a trailer. I can fit seven people and seven backpacks in the minivan, no problem.

Mark – Thought about having them use their school backpack? Carry water, clothes and personal gear then use the trailer to stage the heavy or bulky stuff (tents, Stoves, sleeping bags) at the camp. We are a "Trailer Troop" and generally do it that way. Lightens the load for the new Scouts. Also, I don't know about your area but Craigslist, Ebay, Garage Sales and Salvation Army are great places to pick up $10 backpacks (usually from the 70s or 80s). My son stumbled across an old Jansport D5 at a local garage sale for $5 because it matched my D2 from the 70s.

We started a Troop last April. We camped every month last year and ended up with a total of 30 nights outdoors. All our guys are young (11 or 12 with one or two 13 year olds). We ended up with 9 guys with 20 nights camping and 3 had all 30.

We did 1 backpacking trip the first year and have started increasing the frequency. We just completed the first of this year (second overall) to Mt. St. Helens and we've got 3 more on the calendar this year (with the threat of a couple more to be added). Just looking at our calendar we've got 42 possible nights on the calendar already. This includes 6 nights for a Ross Lake kayak trip and summer camp. Because we guranteed an overnighter each month, and because we camp so often I've got 10 ASMs bucking to go out whenever they can. The adults are trained and my biggest issue lately has been turning some away from a trip because we can't have too many SMs out there.

We've made a concious decision to not get grub boxes, dutch ovens or anything else that is heavy. We're (hopefully) getting ready to purchase a tarp for each patrol so they can use it as a dining fly and sleep under it and a water filter by patrol.

I've been hammock camping from the get go. Over time more adults and Scouts have taken it up. After this weekend when some of them saw the difference between a hammock and splitting up their 10 lb tents I suspect almost everyone will be in the trees on the next outing.

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Thats a good post, Rog.

+1

I see that stuff too.
…People feeding the poles through clips as if it were sleeves.

" it was chaos child daycare in uniform under the trees."

yep

We founded our troop 5 years ago and have had an outing every month. We are now moving into more backpacking trips. We are also using camping hammocks. That's where we are now.
If are moving towards more backpacking go camping every month. You have to do this every month with out fail. Even if none of the boys go. Go anyway. Add day hikes. Get High Adventure trained. And then go out and hike some more.
Good Luck…

For those of you who have mentioned the high cost of gear please have look at http://www.scoutdirect.com/. They sell to scouts at serious discounts. The gear is not top notch, but great for kids getting started. All the gear is good, safe and reasonable quality. It doesn't qualify as "light", but for the prices it works great.

In terms of backpacking or camping frequency the rule of thumb is 10 outings per year for a unit, minimum. If you're not getting out this often then you're really not going to survive as a troop. When I was scoutmaster my troop ran an active outdoor program for the troop where we got out every month. We also had a high adventure program for the older scouts where we offered a long term, challenging backpacking trip every summer. The HA program serves to give a challenging program for the older boys and something for the younger boys to look forward to. Our HA program did things like Philmont and one year we went on a 10 day backpacking trip in the Sierras with a summit of Mt. Whitney (BTW this was WAY better than Philmont).

Bottom line is that if you want a thriving troop you must get the boys outdoors and my opinion is that car camping is not enough. The boys need a challenge and something difficult. Backpacking provides things that other outdoor activities simply cannot.

To have a thriving troop, all many need is a constant influx of new crossovers from cub scouts every year. Some troops dont care that they lose kids every yr as they get older and less interested because the troop just basically does nothing outside of car camping.

In some troops , 95+% of scouting is oriented toward getting these youngest kids progressing to rank of first class. While older kids are just working on trying to make Eagle so that they can finally quit. High attrition rates are not surprising.

But the troop "thrives" with 50 members.

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In reference to the last comment . . . why do you have parents there?

We invite families to 1 camping trip a year. We limit the amount of adult leaders that go on any outing as well.

Isn't there some way to (1) get the Scouts planning the outings and (2) not include a bunch of families in the mix?

We are going on a section hike of the JMT in August. We have 4 adults and 8 scouts. 2 of the adults are hiking buddies of mine, ex scouts but they don't kids in our troop. Our typical backpack has about 1/3 to 1/2 parents. They are welcome, and if they bring a younger sister, it works out fine. We need them for drivers also.

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If any adult wants to be involved, in any way, with BSA outings, they need to join BSA, submit to the background check, and complete Youth Protection training. Then they can attend.

Period.

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AFAIK there are rules, policies and procedures at the national, council, and troop level.

Just to repeat what the Scouters on this site already know, at the national level, the minimum standard for an BSA outing is two deep leadership, meaning one registered adult Scouter who is (at least ) youth protection trained and one other adult. In our local council, the Tour Permit used to ask whether the second adult was youth protection trained. We now use a standard national tour permit whose wording escapes me.

In my local troop, the policy has been to require all parents to be registered and youth protection trained. The BSA enrollment form which the parent signs for the scout also informs the parent that "youth protection begins with you."

I think it is just good common sense to have all the adults who want to come on an outing to be trained to the same standard on the BSA safety principles from the use of chemical fuels, to car pools and caravanning (not!), to the prohibition of "one on one contact" between an adult and a scout. Otherwise, they should stay home. The youth protection training only takes 30 minutes on the internet.

We try to get as many parents as possible to step up and become ASM's, if only for the ability to spread the load for events. On dayhikes, anyone can come along. We allow ASM's and YPT-carded, registered parents to attend high-adventure, car-camping and summer camp as adult leaders (preference to ASM's).

We don't have an issue with parents hovering over our Scouts, but rather the opposite: getting adults to drive/haul and hike along.

And on that note, I'm going to go start the truck and head upstate to begin our Troop's 2012 High Sierra Backpacking trip. Two other adult leaders, a case of wine and…wait, I meant 5 canisters of dehydrated food, two kites, four fishing rigs, and one bright orange poo trowel. Yippee Ki-yay!

RD,

I feel for you and have seen this type of thing before, as have all of us most likely. Some thoughts on how to improve the situation…

First, since you are loosely affiliated with the troop, think about getting formally affiliated with it and bring your knowledge, experience, and PREFERENCES to it. See what the troop leadership would like to do, maybe they want what you do but don't see how to make it happen, or maybe they don't have your experience and would appreciate a "backcountry expert" to help them move forward.

As for the kids not doing anything but run around and play, the SM and troop leadership at every level should emphasize the policy that it is about the kids and by the kids, so the kids do the planning (with guidance where needed), and do the camp setup/teardown, cooking, etc. Get that point across to the parents right up front, especially when the kid joins the troop.

A couple of approaches to solving the car camping issue are to:

~ Have a dual activity weekend outing where they you set up a car camping campsite and also do a backpacking hike of some sort. The car camp will be a good place for the less experienced or younger scouts to do their activities while the more experienced scouts could shoulder their backpacks and hike .5 to 5 miles into the boonies and set up a camp at some nice destination, like a lake or someplace with a great view, then come back to the base camp in the morning. Heck, it doesn't even have to be an overnight, they could hike somewhere, have a meal, then come back in time for dinner or a campfire.

~ We all need to take into consideration what the scouts know or don't know and their skill levels. They could do some car camping events and also mix in some backpacking/hiking events so that they can ease into backpacking and more rigorous outdoor activities. One way to get away from car camping trips with the heavy, bulky gear is to frame every trip as a backpacking trip of some sort, even if it is just a quarter mile walk from the parking lot to the campsite. Even when I go car camping with friends I still pack everything I will use in a backpack and make just one trip from car to campsite.

~ Teach the troop, its leaders, and parents how Scouting does things by starting them off with basic outdoor skills and activities, then adding in hiking skills and activities, and then progress onto backpacking and high adventure stuff. Keep in mind, to be a fun and effective program does not mean that they have to hike five miles away with a 25 pound pack on their back every time they go somewhere as a troop.

Once you are involved you might find that you have a kindred spirit in one of the other parents who could help provide the "backwoods" adult leadership/supervision that seems to be missing in the current situation.

And last, since you see most of the parents as yuppies who don't know much about the outdoors and outdoor activities, maybe the troop should have a camping trip just for the adults to teach them how it's done. Maybe event frame it like one of those corporate team building weekends.

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We hvae started to move from car camping to backpacking with our trip to Philmont in 2013. We have included the boys NOT going to Philmont in on our shakedown hikes. I had the new scout work on planning/purchasing the meals for the trip, even though he is not going to Philmont. The best part of the trip was getting lost..at the very beginning. Instead of starting off the hike headed north, they started off headed south…they did not finally realize their mistake until 6 miles in. Us adults told them they our job is to make sure they do not get hurt and fix them up if they do (Wilderness First Aid training)….The leader had a map, compass, and trail description..so we ate lunch and hiked back out the same way, instead of making a loop on the trails…so it was a good learning experience for the boys…

Next month, we will try to take the route that we should have taken in the first place.

We end our trip by heading back to the church and camping out in the backyard of the church.. setting up our backpacking tents, etc… cooking our meals over the backpacking stoves…

So we are making the transition from car camping to backpacking… long over due

Thanks for posting