Lightweight Mountaineering Pack

because the same/simiar question keeps coming up –

everything below fits in a cilogear 40l pack –

wm antelope long (no stuff/compression sack. just stuffed into the bottom of the pack), wild things event hardshell and belay jacket, spare gloves, 4+1 days of food, petzl ecrin helmet, spare pair of socks, integral designs full event overbag, 2X liter nalgenes, bd lighthouse tent, lightweight balaclava, neoprene face mask, bd alpine bod harness rigged for typical glacier travel, g12 crampons (in crampon pocket), petzl summit ice axe (in ice axe holder), wild things wind pants and outdoor research neoplume pants. there was room in the lid for a pair of goggles, snacks for the day and a head lamp. i carry the tent so my partner has the stove, pot, and first aid kit. if i ditched the climbing related gear i could fit a cook set. i could have saved room in the bag by hanging my helmet off the back. yes, the pack has no water bottle pockets, but i can easily add one or two by attaching chalk bag(s) that i found in the bargain bin for $2.50 each or insulated water bottle parkas. while i would add/leave things out, this would be pretty indicative of my load-out when i anticipate temperatures below 0*f.

if i was going with a -20*+ bag or planning on being out for more than 4 or 5 days i'd think about the 60l.

the hmg looks interesting, but i haven't seen any indication that it's been adopted by the mountaineering community like the cilo's, ccw's or wild thing packs.

Nice list Richard and not too dissimilar to my own. I think this is what Brian and I were touching on, that you really don't need such a huge pack, even for 4 day trips if you have your gear dialed in.

How do you like your Cilogear 40? Any gripes?

I was looking at handing down my Valdez to my brother in law and was contemplating picking up either another Valdez or spending the extra $100 for 40L Worksack in the New Year– any thoughts or would you go with something else entirely now that your the the 40L WS?

with a 45l. when i got the 40l i was transitioning from a bigger pack with lots of pockets. i was a little reluctant to go with a pack as spartan as the cilogear worksack so i went with the 40l that has the zipper in the pack body. the zipper gives you limited access into the pack and my reptilian brain thought this was important. going with this option also eliminated the internal compression strap. i quickly came to the realization that i did not need the zipper (i think i've used it twice) and that my packing style adapted to best utilize and take advantage of what the 40l had to offer (like no stuff sack for the sleeping bag and other items that can fill space). the 45l uses slightly lighter material than the 40l or 40b (40b, no zipper) is a little more stripped-out (no crampon pocket) and has slightly more volume. my suggestion is to give graham a call at cilogear and he can walk you through the best options. he's not shy in helping you to pick a pack and he loves to talk.

i'm a big fan of everything wild things (as you can tell from my gear list) and would love to own their guide pack which is near perfect for me, but i'm getting older and as the pack size and weight carrying increases i need the frame-sheet and aluminum stay that cilo incorporates. i just can't/don't want to hump a fully loaded alpine pack that only has a folded bivy-pad for a suspension. i've spent an hour or two tweaking the bend in the frame-sheet and adjusting the waist belt up-and-down and it's now a custom pack that's fit to me. for slightly more weight than a wild things or ccw pack the carry is much more comfortable. that being said, when i need to i can strip the worksack down to its lean and mean bare-bones and have a fully functional pack that weighs under 2 lbs.

now if i can only figure out how to become a cilogear sponsored athlete cause i truly jones for the white-stuff graham is pushing (insert wink here).

I second either east coast CCW or west coast cilogear! Good old made in USA packs

I own the CCW valdez, chernoble, and choas

and the cilo 30L, 40B NWD, and 60L

I got to meet the owner of cilo as they made my 30l pack.

I would get a 40L pack I have used a 30l for over night mountaineering stuff such as MT jefferson and the 40B NWD for 3 day stuff on Mt rainier. I think I would only need more for a really long trip. I love my NWD pack though! I got a good deal on it though. I have to say though that I love my 30L pack and plan on using it for summer Rainier climbs. I get lighter every trip

While MLD isn't known for it's pack to be used mountaineering, I've been using the MLD Super Exodus for almost 2 year for that. MLD doesn't offer the 'Super' version any more on the website, but maybe they can still make one. The Super differs from the regular in that it's made completely from Dyneema X (no mesh). This makes the pack very durable.
My modified version (I made a light frame for it) weighs 850 grams / 30 oz, and can carry 15 kg / 33 lbs in relative comfort. I've used it for overnight mountaineering trips, carrying a mountaineering gear, cooking gear, a -20c / -5 f sleepingbag etc.

I also have a Cilogear 30L and 45L. Truly amazing minimalist yet durable packs. For lightweight multiday mountaineering, you should be able to fit everything in a 40-45L Cilo. Extension collar adds 20 liters, plus you have the lid. Trying to get things down so I can fit it all in my 30L, but it may take a bit of effort. :)

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I looked at the nozones at mec, would have been more impressed if the 35 had a full hipbelt instead of just a webbing one

+1 for Cilogear. The 60l can do everything well. Expands to around 90L for expeditions and compresses to somewhere aroud 35l for peak bagging.

I also have a pod sac black ice. Similar to the cilo, but looks to be a little more durable.

Another +1 for the CiloGear worksacks. I have the 60L pack, and have used it on a few trips now. It is quite large, but strips down weight and size wise, pretty well. But overall it's a little too large for my most frequent uses. For a week long trip I think it is great, but for a weekend trip, I think I would rather have the 40L and have been considering purchasing it as well. Very few issues: I had part of the buckle for an ice tool attachment break, but it broke during baggage check at some point (with tools attached). I just tied a knot behind the buckle for the time being. Another issue, the framesheet rises up pretty high, so on the occasion that I've forgot to remove it while climbing lower angle ice, it would inhibit head movement when I would try to look up. Just leave it behind when you strip it for a summit pack, or chop it shorter.

40 pounds is a pretty heavy load for mountaineering. 30 pounds is as much as I'd consider carrying for climbing, even on a multi-day trip.

My current favorite lightweight mountaineering pack is the Hyperlite Ice pack.

Better suspension than the Cilo Gear packs, and lighter than the Cilo Gear packs.

About 40 liters.

http://www.hyperlitemountaingear.com/products/ice-pack.html

What makes the suspenion on the hyperlite better? It looks like a well thought out pack, but i prefer a pack with an expansion/spindrift collar for volume versatility and a removable lid with pockets for storage/access options.

The Cilo gear suspension gives you 4 choices.

Choice 1: Nothing. Light and flexible, but no weight transfer. Difficult to get weight off of your shoulders.

Choice 2: Foam pad. Somewhat better than nothing, but foam doesn't have much longitudinal strength. It bends quite easily, so weight transfer is modest at best. With very careful packing and compression, you can use the load to make up for this weakness, but it's not an ideal solution.

Choice 3: Frame sheet. The frame sheet provides excellent weight transfer. However, it weighs over a pound. Also, the stiff plastic inhibits the pack from flexing with your back and conforming to your back as you climb. So, you get weight transfer, but at the expense of weight and climbing performance.

Choice 4: New Klymit inflatable pad. I have one, but haven't tested it yet. No idea how well it will work. It might be great. It might not.

Compare this with the frame in the Hyperlite. The frame consists of a very light and thin pad that is there solely for comfort, not for load support. The pad is thin and flexible, so it doesn't keep the pack from conforming to your back and twisting and flexing when you twist and flex. This padding is coupled with two thin aluminum stays. They provide excellent longitudinal support, which allows for great weight transfer to the hipbelt. However, because there are just two stays, and not a big stiff plastic sheet, the frame doesn't keep the pack from moving, flexing, and twisting along with your body. It's just a better design. It's lighter, more comfortable, and interferes less with your body's movements and balance.

I have a Cilo Gear pack. I like it when used with just the pad. However, I really don't like the frame sheet. I think that using the frame sheet gives up too much in terms of weight and climbing performance. As a result, when used in my preferred configuration, load carrying performance is somewhat compromised. The Hyperlight carries loads well, and climbs well, and is lighter. As a result, my Cilo is getting less use, and the Hyperlite more.

I agree with you on the removable lid/expansion issues. The ideal pack would be a Cilo Gear pack with a Hyperlite frame. The Hyperlite is also a little on the small side. It's a "small" 39 liters, while the Cilo is a "large" 45 liters. You have to really pare things down to the minimum to fit a multi-day winter climbing load into the Hyperlite.

part of what the frame sheet does for the cilo is to prevent the pack from tacoing when you've cranked-down on the internal and other compression straps. as far as comfort with the frame sheet in, I've bent it to the point that it fits into my lower back and follows the curve of my spine pretty well. I find this more comfortable than having a straight pack against my back. with the pad in place it's pretty comfortable. I think my next experiment will be to take a hole saw to the frame sheet in an attempt to lower its weight without compromising its rigidity (too much). the klymit frame sheet looks pretty interesting. if I do a little too much drilling on my frame sheet one of the inflatable's might be in order.

I haven't bought a pack yet, but I'm currently leaning heavily towards the Cold Cold World Valdez. Looks like it does what I want and is inexpensive. If I commit to the Valdez, I'll start looking into some custom options ("modern" tool attachment, crampon pocket, potentially lighter fabric). My torso is 18" (I think), so the 16-20 inch range should suit me.

Funny how now that it's Spring I want a 40 liter pack instead of 50 liters… I would still be looking at CCW if I wanted a 50 liter (Chernobyl).

Number two on the list is the new Arcteryx Nozone. My buddy just ordered the 35 liter version and I'm excited to check it out.

When I recently moved I carried some stuff in the Gregory Makalu. As soon as I put it on I remembered why I love it and I knew I would never sell it. So. Comfortable.

Randy@CCW will make you a pack out of the Dyneema blend if you want. He would prolly make one out of any reasonable fabric began get a hold of or you can provide.

Dane at Cold Thistle just did a multi-part post on climbing packs that may be informative as you make your decision:

Part 1: http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2012/04/fitting-and-detailing-on-climbing-packs.html
Part 2: http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2012/04/climbing-packs-part-2.html
Part 3: http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2012/04/climbing-packs-part-3.html

I flippin' love Cold Thistle.

I'm also contemplating an attempt this weekend at sewing my own pack… We'll see.

The EB First Ascent Alchemist goes from 44 liters to 55 liters in a very clever way.

It has a lot of features including a integrated bivy pad, extremely durable material and construction and great stability.

4 lbs with the bivy pad, 3.4 lbs without.

If I had not already spent a bundle modifying a pack for backcountry skiing THIS is the pack I would get.

Like other First Ascent geat this pack's design is tested and tweaked by professional guides. I have not seen any First Ascent gear that is not top notch in comparison the the best in the industry.

I have an Alchemist. I've been using it mostly as a commuter pack, because the same clever setup that enables it to expand to a 55L pack also happens to work really nicely for carrying a tripod while still keeping the top closed. I can pack everything I need to shoot a short film with sync sound, including a 3-point light kit and a 15" shotgun mike in this thing and carry it around town on my bike.

My only concern is that in spite of using it in mild situations, i.e. no mountaineering or even backpacking (I used my McHale for the Mount Rainier summit trip and the week in the Glacier Peak Wilderness), the haul loop came off on one side and there's a small gap in a seam where the stitching is coming loose.

I'm hoping that this isn't an endemic problem, because other than the two spots where the stitching is coming apart, I think it's a great pack, especially for the price. The fabrics themselves are quite burly, so I'm going to pay Eddie Bauer a visit soon and see about an exchange.

I’ve been curious about the PODsacs Crag Sac for a while, but since I’ve been unable to find a US retailer and I’m not willing to deal with an international shipping return, I’m hesitant to purchase one.

Can anyone offer a review for the Crag Sac? How well does it carry? Does it climb easy? How about some pictures of it on so I can see how it rides? Thanks in advance.

PODsacs Crag Sac

Crag Sac

Tough all round climbing pack offers ultimate durability and reliable comfort for everyday cragging through to Alpine climbing and Scottish winter mountaineering. The simple design makes this a favourite of outdoor centres and group use.

•Articulated back harness with top tension straps
• Back system comprised of removable internal frame-sheet with single alloy stave (also removable) for support
• Sternum strap for stability and comfort
• Side compression straps stabilise loads
• Top grab handle
• 2 ice axe/ walking/ ski pole loops
• External wand pockets constructed from ultra-tough Leno mesh
• Front bungee cord arrangement
• Drawcord closure with removable hood, featuring external and internal zipped pockets
• Load bearing cushioned waist belt with tension straps for stability
• Seams triple stitched and bound
• Bar tacked stress points
• Medium harness length

Volume:
Size 1: 40L (+10L)
Size 2: 43L (+10L)
Size 3: 47L (+10L)

Weight:
1.48kg, Stripped 1kg (size 2)

Fabric:
1000D Cordura®

Just get the Cold Cold World. Make up your dream pack and Randy will sew it. I have that Gregory pack. Randy could sew a Chaos pack with the same strap and daisy configuration as your Makalu, giving you exactly what you want. If you need a frame, the Cilo frames will fit inside a CCW pack.

My fiancé has a BD mission 50. The fabric is plenty tough, and from handling the Speed in store, that looks tough enough too. Don't sell your Gregory. That's a nice pack to keep around. It sounds like you are carrying a pretty huge load— maybe if you said more about your objectives we could give better information. If you're carrying skis, for instance, that's going to make a difference.

You mentioned getting your gear down to 40 lbs. What are you carrying presently? A 8mm rope, BD couloir harness, Grivel Matrix Light tools, etc, will drop the pounds and allow you to bring a pack you don't hate climbing in.