To Use Footbeds or Not to Use Footbeds

[Heavy Good]

I propose heavier packs and shorter distances. No pack should be under 35 lbs, preferably 50 lbs or more. Distances should not be more than 15 miles per a day. This prevents the "pencilneck geek" appearance and builds the human body into a human pack animal of sorts. Your heart will vascularize to levels unimaginable by any doctor.

I am going to start a new website called "BackpackingHeavy" for all the non pencilneck, non-weenie backpackers.

Sergeant Rock

[Heavy Good]

>Most runners I know are just passionate about training and >simply love to run.

Thats the biggest understatement I have ever heard. Most runners are OBSESSED about mileage.

>They aren't that different from >ultralight backpackers that >obsess over how many squares of >toilet paper to take into >the backcountry, cut the pockets >out of their clothes, or >try to hike a trail in record time >and decide not to treat >their water for giardia.

Yeah? Doing those things to the level many SUL people take it to would also be called OCD…Obsessive Compulsive Disorder…a mental disorder.

Sergeant Rock

[Doug Johnson]

Is this the REAL Sgt. Rock of http://hikinghq.net/ fame? The former BPL stove editor and lover of hammocks? If so, what's up man? I know you're nicer than this. I've followed your work for years and you're always respectful.

If it's an imposter, get an original moniker and learn something from the REAL Sgt. Rock. Like how to respectfully share your views and engage in discussion.

Best wishes,
Doug

[Adam Rothermich]

I highly doubt this is the REAL Sgt. Rock. This particular troll's posts are almost identical in format as those of good 'ol VP.
Sgt. Rock already has his own site and is highly active in running WB. I don't know why he would jeopardize his reputation by posting these kind of comments if this is really Sgt. Rock.
Not to mention that Sgt. Rock lists his base weight as 10.2 lbs in his forum profile on his own site.

Adam

[Linsey Budden]

If your arches are super high, green superfeet may not be enough; they weren't for me and when my left arch fell I developed a 'spur' where my misaligned foot bones rub together. The custom orthotics I wear prop everything back in place and are a godsend, eliminating alot of pain. If my podiatrist is a quack, so be it, but he has enabled me to continue hiking and walking for that matter.

[mark henley]

Hummm …. "you suck" is back again under a different name.

The electronic equivilant of cigarette butts and beer cans on the side of the trail.

The same ol' troll …. most likely a 13 year old wanna be hiker with a really bad case of acne.

I agree … don't feed the trolls … they'll get bored.

[Frank Deland]

My first successful use of footbeds came with downhill ski boots. I had tried several mehtods of boot fittings to get a pair of boots to be comfortable in the area directly over my ankle bone. Readfy to purchase new boots, I was persuaded to try heat molded footbeds. They solved the problem, I got several more seasons out of my boots. The next time I bought boots, I immediately purchased footbeds. First run was so painful, I took the footbeds out before even skiing to the bottom. I sat down alongside the trail and removed them. The problem was solved when I returned to the shop. The footbeds had been put in the wrong boots, ie. left into the right. I now use the superfeet, un-heated, off-the-shelf models in my low cut hiking shoes. They work for me. I tried on and actually purchased two pair of well-known trail runners and both paris chaffed the side of my foot after about an hours walk, and I returned both pairs. I started to have the problem with a third pair until I inserted superfeet which I thought muight be unnecessary. Problem solved. (Merrel Ventilators) In a previous pair (Montrail Vitesse), I had just used a Dr. Scholl insert for extra cushioning that I purchased a pharmacy. That worked well, too.

[Heavy Good]

Hell no I aint that Sergeant Rock. I never even heard of that guy before. Sergeant Rock is a common net name and nobody has it copyrighted, so I will continue to use it as I see fit.

Youre that SUL weenie with a "sub 5 lb" pack who backpacks in running shoes, huh?

LOL hahahaha….

Thats not even backpacking, dude. To backpack, you gotta carry a real pack and wear real boots.

Sergeant Rock

[James Pitts]

I found the footbeds that I did try to make the boots or shoes fit too tight. The only thing that felt right were the paper thin things. Perhaps they just have to get crushed down by running/hiking on them.

[Heavy Good]

No my arches arent high, they arent low, they arent flat, they are just there. I dont analyze it anymore…who gives a flying f*ck. I backpack and when I have some pain, I pop some Motrin. Or I just suck it up…playing with some pain is part of backpacking afterall. Always has been, always will be. I dont need no stinking podiatrist. I save my cash instead of giving it away to stinking podiatrists and making them rich off your stupid ass.

So your feet hurt, so you have blisters, so you have a spur, so you have this, so you have that? WHO CARES? FIDO…F*CK IT DRIVE ON! Boo hoo hoo…

P*ssy ultra-light motherf*ckers who cant handle a real backpack. I dont even want to go into the woods unless I am wearing boots. Real men wear boots, girls wear shoes and sandals.

I bet most of you have low testosterone, complaining about "heavy packs" all the time. Maybe you should lift some weights and build some strength up so you can handle a 35-40 lb pack. Squats and some cleans and presses can do wonders into turning girlie ultra-lighter hiker men into real backpackers.

Find a strength coach…

Sergeant Rock

PS: Check out my blog

http://masochistbackpacker.blogspot.com/

[b d]

Hi Heavy Good,

Could you self define what is good about you and your knowledge of camping, hiking, or whatever in 25 words or less, just for my edification.

I am not certain what your purpose or point is by posting here.

I am not bothered by your posting because it is a sign that this web community has become large and important. I just wish you would stop being so obnoxious.

I also, based on your posts, assume that you need help and are not getting it. That is sad, but it is true you are like cigarette remnants and beer cans on the side of a trail. And, your comments don't really show any knowledge of hiking, camping, or gear — or people.

PS: I did go to your blog page and found the following statement, me being a lawyer I always check out the self-propelled statements of others, which indicates you admit you are a "lurker" at others web sites and in their communities:

"One of the things I quickly observed from lurking on ultra-lightweight backpacking discussion forums and a few websites devoted to homemade alcohol stoves is that some guys seem hooked on just this subject alone."

You also wrote:

When you are out there, humping up and down mountains, in the cold and rain, or in the heat, carrying a load with bugs flying around your head, soaked in sweat…it’s a masochistic sport and its not for everybody. I guess that’s why the majority of Americans aren’t serious backpackers…they aren’t personally into pain. Although most love to watch other people get seriously hurt on NFL .

"The thing is, there are a few people who actually enjoy that "no pain, no gain" feeling they get from humping up a huge mountain with a rucksack on their back. Some people enjoy the "runners high" they get from the cardio pump that comes with hardcore backpacking. That’s the REAL REASON many hardcore backpackers do it…when you cut thru all the crap. Its a masochist outdoor sport that tends to attract masochistic individuals chasing an intense runners high."

And, just so everyone is clear on who you are:

"I am a thirty-seven year old man who started doing serious backpacking in Boy Scouts in the early eighties, around the age of fourteen. I lost count of the numbers of "50 milers" I completed in high school and during my college years. I went to Philmont Scout Ranch in the mid eighties, located in Northeast New Mexico and did the hardest backpacking programs available there."

"I made Eagle rank my Senior year in high school, in 1987. By the time I was seven-teen, I was a total and complete bad-ass in the wilderness as a direct result of my Scout training…especially my High Adventure treks that I participated in summer after summer after summer. I could easily do thirty to forty miles a day and did fifty miles in one day once in the Sangre de Christo mountains of Northern New Mexico. I was doing lightweight backpacking back in those days, although it didn’t have a name back then. But I was taught to use lightweight tarps for shelters instead of tents, to choose lighter weight boots rather than heavy "wafflestomper" boots common in the mid eighties. Contrary to what some would have you believe, lightweight backpacking has been around since AT LEAST the eighties. Ultra-lightweight backpacking? I would say no that is new. But I went pretty lightweight back then at times."

There is no mention here of military training or experience, I note — though you talk like you are experienced at military standards of performance and equipment. bd

[Dondo .]

Hi b d,

Please don't feed the troll. If we don't feed him, maybe he'll go away like that Vlad character did.

Best wishes

[Peter McDonough]

Howdy Sergeant Rock!!!

Most of us used to be just like you, except less rude.
We carried heavy packs, but then one day we tired of it.
We didn't think backpacking should be a workout, but rather an enjoyable experiance, one that we would gladly take off of work for.

So we switched to lighter weight backpacking.

And we like it.

So attempting to cram your opinions down our throats is a waste of time and effort, as we know we like this certain form of backpacking.

Getting us to switch back would be similar to forcing us to change our favorite type of ice cream or food–Pointless.

[Heavy Good]

Hey bd:

You ever heard of freedom of speech? Freedom of the press?

Attorney complaints

http://www.calbar.ca.gov/state/calbar/calbar_generic.jsp?cid=10179

Sergeant Rock

[Heavy Good]

bd you ever heard of the California Rules of Professional Conduct?

http://www.calbar.ca.gov/state/calbar/calbar_extend.jsp?cid=10504&id=1267

Sergeant Rock

[b d]

Heavy Good,

Here is the text of a PS to my previous email to you. I hope you are well and peaceful, as you may be. The problem with your notion of free speach is that it is as faulted as your self presentation style. So here is the PS to my previous post in response to your posts:

"PS: I did go to your blog page and found the following statement, me being a lawyer I always check out the self-propelled statements of others, which indicates you admit you are a "lurker" at others web sites and in their communities:

"One of the things I quickly observed from lurking on ultra-lightweight backpacking discussion forums and a few websites devoted to homemade alcohol stoves is that some guys seem hooked on just this subject alone."

You also wrote:

When you are out there, humping up and down mountains, in the cold and rain, or in the heat, carrying a load with bugs flying around your head, soaked in sweat…it’s a masochistic sport and its not for everybody. I guess that’s why the majority of Americans aren’t serious backpackers…they aren’t personally into pain. Although most love to watch other people get seriously hurt on NFL .

"The thing is, there are a few people who actually enjoy that "no pain, no gain" feeling they get from humping up a huge mountain with a rucksack on their back. Some people enjoy the "runners high" they get from the cardio pump that comes with hardcore backpacking. That’s the REAL REASON many hardcore backpackers do it…when you cut thru all the crap. Its a masochist outdoor sport that tends to attract masochistic individuals chasing an intense runners high."

And, just so everyone is clear on who you are:

"I am a thirty-seven year old man who started doing serious backpacking in Boy Scouts in the early eighties, around the age of fourteen. I lost count of the numbers of "50 milers" I completed in high school and during my college years. I went to Philmont Scout Ranch in the mid eighties, located in Northeast New Mexico and did the hardest backpacking programs available there."

"I made Eagle rank my Senior year in high school, in 1987. By the time I was seven-teen, I was a total and complete bad-ass in the wilderness as a direct result of my Scout training…especially my High Adventure treks that I participated in summer after summer after summer. I could easily do thirty to forty miles a day and did fifty miles in one day once in the Sangre de Christo mountains of Northern New Mexico. I was doing lightweight backpacking back in those days, although it didn’t have a name back then. But I was taught to use lightweight tarps for shelters instead of tents, to choose lighter weight boots rather than heavy "wafflestomper" boots common in the mid eighties. Contrary to what some would have you believe, lightweight backpacking has been around since AT LEAST the eighties. Ultra-lightweight backpacking? I would say no that is new. But I went pretty lightweight back then at times."

There is no mention here of military training or experience, I note — though you talk like you are experienced at military standards of performance and equipment. bd"

PS: Dondo — this was sent to clarify the record, in attn'y. lingo about this troll, not to engage in an ongoing dialogue. bd

[Heavy Good]

Hi Heavy Good,

Could you self define what is good about you and your knowledge of camping, hiking, or whatever in 25 words or less, just for my edification.

I am not certain what your purpose or point is by posting here.

I am not bothered by your posting because it is a sign that this web community has become large and important. I just wish you would stop being so obnoxious.

I also, based on your posts, assume that you need help and are not getting it. That is sad, but it is true you are like cigarette remnants and beer cans on the side of a trail. And, your comments don't really show any knowledge of hiking, camping, or gear — or people.

PS: I did go to your blog page and found the following statement, me being a lawyer I always check out the self-propelled statements of others, which indicates you admit you are a "lurker" at others web sites and in their communities:

"One of the things I quickly observed from lurking on ultra-lightweight backpacking discussion forums and a few websites devoted to homemade alcohol stoves is that some guys seem hooked on just this subject alone."

You also wrote:

When you are out there, humping up and down mountains, in the cold and rain, or in the heat, carrying a load with bugs flying around your head, soaked in sweat…it’s a masochistic sport and its not for everybody. I guess that’s why the majority of Americans aren’t serious backpackers…they aren’t personally into pain. Although most love to watch other people get seriously hurt on NFL .

"The thing is, there are a few people who actually enjoy that "no pain, no gain" feeling they get from humping up a huge mountain with a rucksack on their back. Some people enjoy the "runners high" they get from the cardio pump that comes with hardcore backpacking. That’s the REAL REASON many hardcore backpackers do it…when you cut thru all the crap. Its a masochist outdoor sport that tends to attract masochistic individuals chasing an intense runners high."

And, just so everyone is clear on who you are:

"I am a thirty-seven year old man who started doing serious backpacking in Boy Scouts in the early eighties, around the age of fourteen. I lost count of the numbers of "50 milers" I completed in high school and during my college years. I went to Philmont Scout Ranch in the mid eighties, located in Northeast New Mexico and did the hardest backpacking programs available there."

"I made Eagle rank my Senior year in high school, in 1987. By the time I was seven-teen, I was a total and complete bad-ass in the wilderness as a direct result of my Scout training…especially my High Adventure treks that I participated in summer after summer after summer. I could easily do thirty to forty miles a day and did fifty miles in one day once in the Sangre de Christo mountains of Northern New Mexico. I was doing lightweight backpacking back in those days, although it didn’t have a name back then. But I was taught to use lightweight tarps for shelters instead of tents, to choose lighter weight boots rather than heavy "wafflestomper" boots common in the mid eighties. Contrary to what some would have you believe, lightweight backpacking has been around since AT LEAST the eighties. Ultra-lightweight backpacking? I would say no that is new. But I went pretty lightweight back then at times."

There is no mention here of military training or experience, I note — though you talk like you are experienced at military standards of performance and equipment. bd

Edited by bdavis at 01/11/2007 21:03:54 MST.
PRINT

[b d]

PRINT

[paul johnson]

This fella' sounds like our ol' buddy Vlad Putin (i think that i might have mentioned this before or in another Thread when he first popped up). Don't know if BPL banned Vlad, or if he chose to give us a brief respite.

He had something to offer. Wool, for instance. Seriously. That was a good subject to bring up. I had hoped that he would tone it down just a bit with personal attacks (though i, as apparently did DrC, got a chuckle out of his D.I. tirade, "…pencil neck…", etc. – brought back memories…) and so become a much more valuable member of our Forum Community than he already was. I know, for my part, i always read VP's Posts. I looked for them. Some good info (at least sometimes made me pause and think). Sometimes he 'spiced up' a Thread (which could be good or bad, depending…).

Perhaps he was banned and is now back w/a vengeance? Don't know. This fella' seems a tad more cantankerous than VP – Also VP, IMHO, had much more to offer.

I really liked Vlad. In a lot of ways i did. truly. He reminded of some i grew up with and was in the military with. Real Gung Ho types. I could admire all the positives in such a person and overlook any negatives that might be present (i sure have a bunch of negatives myself!!!). I can appreciate everything good about such a person. Sure, they have rough edges. But sometimes that's just the kind of guy you wanted covering your six, so to speak. Sometimes, they just needed to smooth the rough edges just a little in order to have their message listened to by more people – not everyone can hear the words through the noise, so to speak – to use an old tube radio analogy; i trust y'all understand the meaning. It's a good thing to LEARN to 'play nice' and adapt to others (to a degree) so that others will then be able to LEARN from you. Just my opinion, that's all.

At this point, i'd have to agree with others that SILENCE is the best way to deal with this until thought provoking (even if contrary to our ideas) and perhaps profitable info is contributed.

I phrased it another way in a previous post, drawing from my childhood experiences (and probably every child heard similar words from their Mother), but i won't repeat them here as i'm afraid i gave someone offense with them. My apologies. So, let's just call it SILENCE. This is just my personal recommendation. Consider it to be analogous to an "armpit" – some stink, and maybe this recommendation does to. I'll leave it up to those reading this to decide.

---

Wish BPL had an IGNORE THIS USER feature in the Forums. Do they, and i've just been missing it?

[Mitchell Keil]

As the original poster of this thread, I want to request that BPL ban Sgt Rock, Vlad Putin and all of his aliases from the site. We have spent far too much time answering/responding to his posts.

PJ, I don't agree. Regardless of whether he has added some value by raising the "wool" issue to new levels, he did so in a manner that does not serve the larger value of respectful civil discourse. Many others have discussed wool with more respect for the opinions of others on this site.

Its time to stop threads from being hijacked by those who show little respect for civil discourse.

If we are finished with this thread's discussion, fine. But if there are others who would like to share their experiences with aftermarket and OEM footbeds then I would like to hear from them and not be distracted with discussing a troll's relative merits.

[paul johnson]

Mitchell, we might disagree on certain specifics (you'll see in another Thread, at least two others felt about VP as i do – we all saw some progress in "playing nice", or "manner" as you termed it), but i have no problem with your request/suggestion. You're absolutely right; something must be done. I agree with your words about "a manner that does not serve the larger value of respectful civil discourse. Many others have discussed wool with more respect for the opinions of others on this site.". Glad you felt free disagreeing with me. I'll keep this short – sorry, for contributing to the Threadjack.

[Author]

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