Inverted Canister Stove Winter Fuel Consumption

[Bob Gross]

"I typically prime with alcohol which does not flare and fireball the way that white gasoline does."

You are missing the point. White gasoline is a multipurpose item. Use white gasoline to start your stove, and you won't have to carry an eyebrow trimmer.

–B.G.–

[Hikin’ Jim]

You are missing the point. White gasoline is a multipurpose item. Use white gasoline to start your stove, and you won't have to carry an eyebrow trimmer.

OK, you got me. That one made me chuckle.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Bob

> You use your knife to carve off little magnesium flakes until you have a tiny pile.
OK, it's freezing cold, I'm wet and hypothermic, and I am trying to shave a magnesium block with a knife to make chips. What happens?
* I lose most of the chips because my hands are shaking.
* My hands are cold and can't hold the knife properly, so I slip and cut my free hand to the bone.
* When I finally get enough chips and manage to get a flame to them, they flare up and burn my hand – and possibly melt the Bic lighter creating a fire ball.
* A few seconds later the chips are all burnt up and the kindling is still damp.

Contrast this with the use of a few chips of Esbit or equivalent:
* I open the Nalge pill bottle and shake a couple out. They are white and easy to see. Then I close up the bottle and put it away safely.
* I balance one on a splinter of wood and hold my Bic under it. It catches on fire gently, so I place it next to the other Esbit chips under the kindling.
* The chips burn steadily for a few minutes, allowing me to place kindling above the flame to start a fire.

If the latter sounds like actual experience – yes. Cast iron stove in a mountain hut. Esbit chips provided. Routine stuff.

Cheers

PS: I have bulk magnesium rod here in the workshop. It makes nice shavings on the lathe. So I have some experience with lighting the stuff too. :-)

PPS: Another quite safe fire starter is a tiny bottle of kerosene. NOT white gas but kero. Kero burns quite slowly and gets a fire going well but safely. It is possible to add a little more kero to the fire IF and only IF you do it very carefully – quite unlike trying to add white gas and creating an explosion.
(Avgas is risky/bad, metho is risky and not very effective, diesel is poor – too smoky, heating oil is poor, smoky, Jet-A etc is OK, and JP-8 is probably OK. TMI)

[Bob Gross]

If we take magnesium and Esbit as equivalent fire starters, then magnesium has one big multi-use advantage, as a nighttime emergency flare. A good magnesium flame can be seen a mile away at night.

–B.G.–

[Hikin’ Jim]

Roger Caffin wrote: > Another quite safe fire starter is a tiny bottle of kerosene. NOT white gas but kero. Kero burns quite slowly and gets a fire going well but safely. It is possible to add a little more kero to the fire IF and only IF you do it very carefully – quite unlike trying to add white gas and creating an explosion.
(Avgas is risky/bad, metho is risky and not very effective, diesel is poor – too smoky, heating oil is poor, smoky, Jet-A etc is OK, and JP-8 is probably OK. TMI)

Ah, now there's an idea I hadn't thought of. Kero. I'll have to try that.

I've used alcohol/metho with good results on damp (but not wet) wood before, but it does burn off pretty quickly.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Jim

Problem with metho is that it evaporates so easily, as you saw. That's why kero works so well – it makes more of a 'candle flame' and burns slowly.

Of course, a small bithday candle also works tolerably well IF you can keep it upright.

Cheers

[Stuart R]

A long time ago, I once had a bottle of kero leak whilst in my rucksack sidepocket. It ruined some clothes and I was lucky it didn't get into my food or my sleeping bag.
Once propane/butane canisters became available my 8R and other liquid fuel stoves were resigned to car camping only.

[USA Duane Hall]

Roger, I've only used an Esbit stove on a trip or two, hated the smell in the pack etc. How easy do the shavings catch? I know the cubes are slow to catch, but burn quite a while. Are we talking about the size of shavings one would whittle off of a stick? Not sure if the pieces coming off are even a shaving since the Esbit stuff seems brittle. Thanks. Not too worried as I don't have a fire much.
Duane

[Hikin’ Jim]

Duane,

I would think you could cut off a chunk (or even use the whole piece) and slice it up. Surface area is what I think would make it easier to light. A shot of Purell hand sanitizer will also make ESBIT burn very easily.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

[James holden]

duane …

[USA Duane Hall]

Thank you Eric for the link. I checked it out. Easily done.
Duane

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Duane

I didn't 'shave' the Esbit, just chopped a block up with a knife. Fragments, chips, but not shavings.
They seemed to light fairly easily when one was balanced on a twig and the Bic held under it!

cheers

[USA Duane Hall]

Roger, I had never messed with a Esbit tablet, but in the video I could see it crumbled under the knife. Before I viewed it, I was thinking shavings like from a carved piece of wood. It makes sense I can see by doing that, that the remaining tablet has a rougher surface versus a smooth, formed surface to catch those sparks and start. Never would have thought that would work. I only acquired a rod and striker this last Spring and only used it a couple times bping.
Duane

[Travis Leanna]

This is great! I'm thinking of getting the Windpro for winter camping that would require melting snow and temps not far below 15F.

I like the ease of the Windpro (no pumping/priming), but am still trying to decide if that's a better choice over a WG stove.

I think Roger wrote somewhere that in practical use, because priming uses extra fuel, canister stoves can be just as efficient, if not more efficient than some WG stoves.

[Nick Gatel]

It is easy to scrape Esbit with a finger nail and get small pieces/shavings. Esbit is the same color as snow, and even in a very light wind it disappears into never-never land. Now-a-days I use Esbit almost exclusively in 3 season hiking and it is a pain to light in windy conditions.

IMO, whatever stove you use should be easy to light with the intended fuel. If you need another method, then perhaps you have the wrong tool for the job?

[Nick Gatel]

Travis,

It is not an easy decision IMO. Roger is completely happy with his canister stove, so it works for him. For me it is not so cut and dry. This year I am going back to WG, which I think has several advantages except weight. I am just more confident and comfortable with my WG stove in winter. Like I said earlier, if the new version of the Wind Pro comes out, I might try it.

[Travis Leanna]

I know the topic of cooking inside shelters has been discussed many, many times, so I'm aware of the pros/cons/worries/disclaimers…

…but since I plan on using this under a Trailstar (which has better ventilation than a sealed up tent) I'm thinking that the Windpro is a tad safer in regards to flare-ups. I have no experience with a WG stove, so that concern might be overly stated.

As with all gear, its often hard to really know what you want unless you actually use it! I do know that I wouldn't want to try to melt snow for a couple of days with my alky stove, or trust my Pocket Rocket in cold temps.

The Windpro seems like a simple, safe, relatively cheap winter stove with decent performance. Hmmmm….

Plus, I can get it at backwoods.com for $60 and free shipping.

[Nick Gatel]

I sometimes cook inside a shelter, but if I need to be in the shelter I try and keep the stove outside while sitting inside. No matter what I do the stove is lit outside and the flame is adjusted before the rare occasion I bring it inside. Here is the difficulty with the Wind Pro, it is not designed to be inverted, although it does work inverted. Twisting the line to invert it works, but the tension wants to force the canister upright. You can secure it somewhat with something like a margarine container with a slot cut for the hose. But if the canister flips to upright while the stove is running and you then invert it, you can get a flare up, if the stove does not go out when the canister initially flips to upright. The fact that one must twist the hose to make it do something it was not intended to do gives me a little concern. The concern is not that something will explode, but the ease of use.

An alternative is to take it a part and change the angle of the hose, which Roger wrote a detailed article on last year. Although I am a tinkerer, I am not thrilled about modifying a propane stove. So be careful if you go this route, and test it several times for leaks before heading out (soapy water on all connections). Now the new Wind Pro (not released yet to my knowledge) is designed to be inverted and has a stand for the canister.

I am not comfortable taking a canister stove below 20F, although people who camp a lot in snow, like Roger, may be okay with it. I just have more confidence in a WG stove and I can fix it if it quits working, unless a crucial piece breaks… and other than clogged jets, I have never had any problems with a WG stove. However in winter I clean mine before every trip just in case.

Decisions, decisions, decisions!!

[Roger Caffin]

> never had any problems with a WG stove. However in winter I clean mine before every trip just in case.

Totally agree. Yes, I used to check the WG stove before leaving home each time too. It gave a certain reassurance …

Cheers

[Hikin’ Jim]

This is great! I'm thinking of getting the Windpro for winter camping that would require melting snow and temps not far below 15F.

I like the ease of the Windpro (no pumping/priming), but am still trying to decide if that's a better choice over a WG stove.

I think Roger wrote somewhere that in practical use, because priming uses extra fuel, canister stoves can be just as efficient, if not more efficient than some WG stoves.

Travis, for the temperatures you're talking about and for what you want to do, the Windpro is a really nice choice.

Yes, a Windpro could flare if you invert the canister while it's running. So just turn it down low before inverting OR start the stove with the canister already inverted. When starting with the canister inverted, keep the stove on low until it warms up. No biggie.

I've found the Windpro to be pretty easy to invert even though the connection doesn't rotate on the current model (the new Windpro II's will rotate).

If you're interested, I've got a review of the Windpro on my blog.

I'm pretty fuel neutral. I've got gas stoves, kero stoves, you name it. For what you're doing, I think the Windpro is a good choice.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

[Travis Leanna]

Jim,
Thanks so much for your reply. I had in fact checked out your blog the other day, which is an appreciable body of knowledge. I went ahead and ordered a Windpro yesterday for a good price, and it's always comforting to hear reinforcing opinions after the fact!

I've read up on the canister inversion and how to keep it low while inverting, but thank you for the reminder.

I do have a question that might have already been answered on BPL, but since we're on topic… do you recommend loosening the connection in order to rotate the canister? Or is there too much room for error in altering a flammable item? My gut says to leave well enough alone…and to go grab another beer.

[Hikin’ Jim]

I do have a question that might have already been answered on BPL, but since we're on topic… do you recommend loosening the connection in order to rotate the canister? Or is there too much room for error in altering a flammable item? My gut says to leave well enough alone…and to go grab another beer.

Travis, I just left mine as is although I know of people who have done just fine with loosening it, rotating it, and then re-tightening it.

For me, it is just no big deal to rotate the canister as shown in the photo I posted. I do press down a bit on the top of the pot on the stove when I rotate the canister — just in case. If you start up the stove with the canister already rotated, this is not an issue.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

[Michael Ray]

Travis,
I had no problem re-doing the connection. It's quite simple, but don't over-tighten either. Checks for leaks once done as Nick suggested. I guess new versions don't need this mod.

[Travis Leanna]

Thanks for all the info guys!

Is the heat reflector worth its weight with the Windpro? There's no canister underneath to protect from getting hot, so is it practical to use all the time?

[Travis Leanna]

I was able to unscrew the hose from the adapter. With pliers, I then rotated the brass crimp fitting inside the nut, and screwed it back onto the adapter. I've got a perfect inversion! (I just really hope that the brass crimp fitting is *supposed* to rotate!)

Couple of questions:

It appears that there was some sort of thread sealant. Should I put some back on? Or as long as it passes the soapy water test will it be fine?

Related to that: since I broke the loctite seal, is there any worry of it coming loose by itself?

[Author]

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