New England-area GTG #2: Winter Wonderland

my main gear list
I plan to mix my Golite 20deg quilt with my generic synth sleeping bag. I’ve had the bag down to just below freezing (it snowed, that’s all I know about the temp for that night) and was comfy in it, so hopefully with the quilt on top and my down jacket I’ll be good (I also have REI down booties I could bring…). Comparing it to one housemates new Mountain Hardwear 20deg synth bag I would say it’s also 20deg-ish rated.

I’m hoping to share a tent with a couple people, I think Clint said he was looking to share as well? I have a Nemo Losi 3p. We’ll have an all night furnace, but he does have a habit of liking to go pee in the middle of the night…

my optionals

On my optional list
– Steripen for cleaning water,
– generic remote canister stove from this thread
– as well as my Crux can mount stove.
– 0.95L pot
– platypus 4L water tank(dunno how useful for winter hiking though…)
– black diamond orbit lantern

Lupus will be sporting some of his new gear,
silicone dog bowl – about light as his stamped steel, but it won’t break the back of Bryce’s legs ;-)
Water/Wind-proof overalls
and some generic booties

How would you divide up the weight of the tent between 3 people?

I also think we'll have to conserve the # of shelters due to limited space at campsites, but I've never been there. Anyone know how much room there is to pitch shelters?

the way I've done it in the past is
-poles
-rain fly
-tent + footprint

each ends up being about 2lbs.

Lupus carries the paw-print…

*contemplates bringing his CF Tarp or sharing tent*

I guess I'd like to know what Ryan and others who have been on the trail think of the amount of space to pitch shelters.

Luckily, these two shelters have tons of space for tenting. Melville-Nauheim (night 1) easily has enough space in summer for five or six tents. In winter with a good base of snow would be possibly more. Goddard shelter and Glastenbury mountain… you could put a tent city up there.

I'm going to bring the same tarp I used for the previous trip. I've used it in winter twice, no serious blizzards or anything. My backup will be the shelters.

fire pits! at least according to some of the photos on flickr…

I forgot to mention I am now the proud owner of two platypus platypreserve wine preservation bags. we just have to remember to bring the corkscrew opener and to transfer in the parking lot.

Steven I am jealous, or rather my pup is jealous, my little guy loves being on the trial, but he has no fur his limit is about mid 40's. This summer I actually forgot his blanket and I had to give him my quilt because he was cold and wouldn't leave me alone and go to sleep in the mid 50's.

I am bringing my MSR stove and 1.5L pot.
I would say leave water purification behind. Boiling water cools to warm water quicker than you can add the hot chocolate powder on cold winter nights. Luke warm water freezes on the way to your mouth;)
I think we need atleast 1 more white gas stove and pot, unless there is enough confidence in both the wood stove and the canister stove? I have no experience with canister stoves outside of summer, and no experience with wood stoves ever.
I also think we need larger pots, if possible. my 1.5L is really too small for this many people. We can make it work with smaller pots it just means more fuel and more stove time.
I can bring my SL 2 if one other person wants to bivy with me, otherwise I am putting the finishing touches on my first MYOG Tarp so I am kinda itching to get that out and try it. I am also open to being a 2nd or 3rd in another tent if it means less weight to carry. This is BPL after all. (Basically open on my shelter options just let me know where and who I am with, or if I am sleeping solo)
Good info Ryan, I will be bringing all the fuel I was originally thinking about bringing.
Bryce I would still bring the bucket, that thing will be a golden few ounces if we get to use it even one night, and I promise I will carry it if we don't use it on Saturday morning.

Jeremy
Steven
Steven's friend?
Lupus (on all 4)
Bryce
Clint
Ryan
Barry? (ride from Boston)
Jim (ride from NYC or only one night)
Matt
Seth
Daniel (Seth's Brother)
Gerry?

My brother Daniel is a for sure thing now that we've got snowshoes and hiking poles worked out for him. Got him gaiters and rain shell pants to go along with his rain shell top. Looking forward to it.

I'm going to study Steve's, but any other hardcore winter guys have a list or two? Thx.

So I have this old car camping set that has both a big pot (3-4 qt?) and a big kettle. I believe both are aluminum, not UL but not all that heavy either. I use them on the good ol' Coleman car camping single burner stove I have when base camping. I could bring one of them?
another option is one of these:
http://www.rei.com/product/401068/open-country-4-quart-pot-with-lid
it's 16oz, but it is cheap. Either may mean we only need to bring one pot for all of us(?)
I have a friend with a Summit water bucket, ~4L iirc, I can probably borrow. He's one of the friends I asked if interested in joining us.

Q: about tents in winter, would taking just the fly and footprint work? I can imagine not needing the bug tent?

Shareable Goods List (so far)
Nemo Losi 3p, 3 person tent ~2lb/person- Steve Adeff
Large Al non-UL pot – Steve Adeff
Platy Wine reservoirs – Steve Adeff
Black Diamond Orbit Lantern, 6.42oz – Steve Adeff
MSR stove and 1.5L pot – Jeremy Osburn
Seedhouse SL2, 2 person tent, ~1.5lb/person – Jeremy Osburn
MSR Whisperlite – Ryan Linn
Vargo Ti Hexagon wood stove – Bryce F.
Water Bag – Bryce F.
Snow Shovel – Ryann Linn

Up for Borrowing(? still available?):
Atlas 925 snowshoes (Seth's brother) – Bryce F.
MSR Lightning Ascent 25 (Seth) – Ryann Linn

—
Lupus is half lab half husky and LOVES the snow. We went walking around Boston after one of the big snow storms two years ago, it was Sunday morning, 16F no cars, we just plowed through the un-plowed streets for like 2 hours, I had to go back in after 20minutes to change into warmer more snow proof clothing. He had the biggest grin the whole time and when I'd had enough he stayed in the backyard a while longer while I shoveled around the house. He also eats snow, it's rather adorable…

My concern for him is sleeping, which is why I got him the fleece. He generally likes to sleep outside the tent (or wander around while I fall asleep and can't let him back in), and in theory when I have the gear to hammock down to -15F he'll sleep on his own (though I am contemplating a CF doggy tarp for him) so I think this will act as a good "sleeping bag" for him.

The large pot has potential to be great! The two questions I have is does it have a lid? Will it sit on a stove full of water and be stable? The stable question is actually easier in the winter becuase snow makes for a great level platform the add a light base of cardboard wraped in aluminum foil under the stove. If so then that pot will be great. The kettle could work, but I think it would be awkward to carry.

I wouldn't worry about the 2nd water bucket, it won't be necessary if we aren't sure we will have running water.

I have to make a minor correction my tent is a GoLite Shangru La 2. I use a bivy under the shelter, no floor or ground cloth.

I have two dogs, Chips a pointer mix, and our newest addition Wonton a pit mix. Both love eating and playing in snow. Just no fur so no sleeping in snow.

My 25in snowshoes are spoken for (Seth's bro).

Steve, I see why you need to be on the ground as opposed to hammock, and lugging the 3p tent alone would suck. I am going to rock my CF Tarp, but I have a Ray-Way 2-person tarp (much like Greg's blue one from the last meetup) that you are welcome to. If you want me to weigh it, let me know.

yea, if I had an UQ I’d take the hammock…

With the tarp I’d need a bivy too right? If no one wants to share a tent I’d be down for borrowing the tarp.

James: perhaps time to look into Hurtta fleece’s for your pups!

the pot does have a lid, and should sit ok, but it does not have a flat bottom which may be an issue depending on the stove. The REI one looks to have a flat bottom though and would probably site better. The kettle does have a flat bottom, but its tall and slender so not as efficient for boiling, but better for pouring… I’ll pull them out tonight when I get home from work, take some measurements and photos.

I do not own a bivy, but using one with this setup is a personal decision.

The Ray-way two person is 8.83 feet by 7.67 feet…that's not including the beaks.

For reference, the tarp I had at the the 1st gathering is 9 x 7, w/ no beaks (did not use a bivy, if bad weather I'd put my pack liner over my feet).

I personally don't think u need one, this sucker is spacious, but up to you.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=585379557686&l=2b8be60867
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=518914189816&l=2a98997593
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=554557455426&l=85df74d452
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=525164169806&l=23fb10bc66

Will u have hiking poles? They can be useful when pitching, if you can't find to properly spaced trees.

Let me know in the end if u need me to bring it.

ok, I’ll let you know. I have an idea for a MYOG UQ I may get to finish before this trip. who knows what will happen between now and then ;-)

that’s it, Lupus is getting one of these…

Seth has dibs on my Lightning Ascents.

I have to wait until after xmas to see what my whisperlite and pots look like, but they should still work. I think it's a 2 qt and 1.5 qt pot– I can bring both. They've been sitting in my parents' house for the past four years since I stopped using heavy stuff. I think they're still good, though :)

As for bivy to go with the tarp, I really like the look of that tyvek thing by Terra Rosa that Phil had in October. I bet you could just use a tyvek blanket if you had to.

This past Sunday I climbed Windham Mtn in the Catskills:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=57142&disable_pagination=1

I mentioned that I was fine with the clothes I had on until I got a bit chilled stopping for lunch….my lunch consisted of two snickers bars, ~15min.

I prefer more little breaks/stops during the day where I can eat, drink and rest for a min or two vs. a long lunch where I need to cook.

So I plan on a hot breakfast and dinner, but snacking/quick cold lunch(es). Is that how others see this going? Thx.

Lunch in the winter is my favorite meal of the day. It starts 10 minutes after breakfast and ends 10 minutes before dinner ;)

My lunch is this:
I have a zip lock bag of pre-sliced hard salami and sharp cheddar
I have a zip lock bag of GORP which for me includes everything from yogurt covered raisins, mixed nuts, m&m's, candy…. Mine is as many different things as I can in one bag
I have another zip lock bag of nothing but candy, bite sized heresies (pre-unwraped) sweet tarts are great, sour patch kids…
Then I might have a beagle with a spread on it or a wrap with a spread on it (peanut butter, hummus, cheese spread).

I basically keep each zip lock bag in a different pocket on my jacket or on my waist belt when I want sweat I grab the candy, when I want a mix I grab the gorp, when I want savory I grab the salami and cheese. Then about mid day I will pull my beagle or wrap out and eat half of it, then mid afternoon do the same with the other half. I keep this as close to my body as possible, for me it is inside my shell jacket, so that it isn't a solid block of ice. I am actually working on a design for a kangaroo sort of pouch that will hold my sandwich, soft sided water bottle, and map and compass all in the same spot on my chest/stomach.

Hey Bryce.

I saw that thread, funny thing is I was doing the exact same thing in Alton, NH the same day. I did a 12-13 mile loop up Mount Major and along the Belknap Ridge. It was a great hike that I had never done before, overlooking Lake Winnipesaukee. The purpose was the same as you to test out my layers for cold weather. The temps were not quite as cold as you had. At 11:00am when I got out of my car it was 19*, slight wind. Probably got up to mid twenties I would guess. There was no snow on the ground, unlike what your pictures showed you experinced, A few small ice flows. Once I got moving I was down to Just a Merno T Shirt and a Capilene 3 L/S, throwing my wind breaker and beenie on when needed. The Layer I dropped once I warmed up was an R1 imitation from EMS. It all worked great may substitute in a soft shell for the windbreaker depending on the conditions of our trip.

My Legs just had Nylon pants with merino long johns, worked great.

My footwear is my challenge I used mesh trail runners, with thick merino socks and Rocky Gortex over that. Couple issues, the shoes fit all of that but there was not much room to spare. Also the GTX socks ripped a while back and I had to sew the seam back together that runs along the back of the heel. It has left a material clump that was rubbing. Third my feet were soggy when I got back home after the hour drive. I think I may put a turkey bag in there as a VBL or if that doesnt fit go with my second option a much clunkier Cabellas GTX Boot with a removable liner, (Think what hunters use to stand around in). Issue with these boots is that they are not very athletic and you can only tie them so tight, my heal still rise up a bit inside when walking. I am concerned about hot spot.

LUNCH:

Yea for lunch I imagine we will eat quickly and continue moving before we cool down to much. On my test trip I premade a tuna and chipolte hummus sandwich that I had kept against my back. I stopped threw on my puffy, ate and then continued on probably only stopped for 10-12 min.

I like the plan of hot Breakfast cold lunch, hot dinner. With 8 and 10 miles to do sat and sunday we will have to use all the day light and keep a steady pace with the slow shoes.

Great minds think alike Clint, I believe Steve got as well to test this past weekend. :p

Ryan/Clint, w/ regards to the windshirt. How do you think a softshell will help? I was under the thinking to keep my insulation under the windshirt, and if I was cold, I needed more layers under the windshirt, not thicker shell layer…. then again, I had no wind so couldn't really test much.

that's my lunch on almost all hikes. I could see it getting old after a week, but for a couple days…

Oy. It looks like I'll be the one going blind into the weekend trip– I don't know if I'll have any time to test my gear before the trip. We'll see.

Re Lunch: Bring a chopped up foam pad to sit on, and puffy layers to put on at break. The foam sit-pad makes all the difference for me. I never cook lunches, so I'll be sticking with bars, PB, Nutella, trail mix, etc. Candy for lunch never gets old!

Re layers: I don't have a gear list made up yet, but here's a brief rundown of layers. Top- powerstretch l/s, windshirt. Bottom- soft shell pants. If it's wicked cold (below 10 or windy), I might add long johns to the bottom, and a fleece to the top. I haven't tried a soft shell top yet, but as soon as I find an affordable one that fits well I'm going to give it a shot (my thinking is it will be nice to have one that's basically just a slightly more insulated version of a wind shirt). Mittens for hands, balaclava for head, and 40 Below overboots for feet. At breaks I'll throw on a puffy jacket (big one, not the light kind) and maybe a rain shell over that.

In camp, I'll put on the puffy jacket and rain shell. And the true luxury is the down pants under my soft shell pants. Fleece pants work too, but down pants…. oh baby!

I'll bring the 5lb bag of Costco trail mix!

Ryan, you have me concerned about my feet with all this overboot talk…

Also, I'm really tempted now to figure out a sub-freezing hammock solution before this trip so I can bring it and use it as a chair at camp. time to pull out the sewing machine…

My day hike clothing results from this past weekend… It was in the high 20's most of the day from what I remember, with slight winds. We hiked a ski mountain, so when we were at the top it was open and quite windy, coldest part of the hike.

I had my toe to neck wool base layers going, IB GT200 leggings, IB GT260 top, Darned Tough socks. I wore my MH Cordoba climber pants, "heavy", but thick and comfy. My other hiking pants are a bit lighter but not as thick, and my rain pants are less than half the weight and wind proof, but provide minimal if any, insulation. Dunno where I lay in what pants to wear. I wore my First Ascent Hangfire Hoodie over my base layer and my IB wool gloves (though traded them with one of the girls since her thin marmot gloves were not keeping her hands warm and I was only half using my gloves). All in all, only when it was windy was I cold. I kept taking the hoodie on and off since I would overheat with it on, but I forgot my Earbags so my ears kept freezing (oy vey!). Oh, and I wore my Sanuk Lumberjack Streetwalkers that I wear, well, ever where when it's cold. My feet were toasty warm except when I got snow in them, then they were comfortably warm until the snow evaporated and my feet got toasty warm again…

I brought my Costco Triple-Star down jacket but never ended up wearing it…

I will be rocking 40 below overboots and trailrunners plus bread bags, produce bags, turkey bags, something bags (:p) as a VBL and light/mid weight insulating sock over that.

I am bringing a Outdoor Research Ninjaclava and dropping any hat I previously thought of carrying. I can wear the ninjaclava as a hat if it's too warm out. My really thin Mountain Hardware beanie was right on the edge, and with any wind my head would of been cold me thinks.

I will have Cap 2 long john bottoms and regular nylon hiking pants over. I was fine with these, but again wind could get me. I figure with the integrated gators of the overboots and the ability to throw on MLD CF rain chaps, I'll be fine….plus we'll be snowshowing (i.e. working harder), not just hiking like I was last weekend.