- Nov 14, 2011 at 1:57 pm #1801704
Roger, superhydrophobic chemistry has been in the pipeline for several years now. We've seen it coming; just a matter of getting a real, practical product to the market (we're probably saying the same thing here…)
This might be that product. I agree not to jump to any conclusions, but I definitely want to pay close attention to this and give it a shot if/when it becomes available. The videos are spectacular and it's hard to imagine how things would be that different in the field, considering many of them are of actual 'field tests' in a sense.Nov 14, 2011 at 4:35 pm #1801757Jerry AdamsBPL Member
@retiredjerryLocale: Oregon and Washington
Schoeller Nanosphere fabric is supposed to be very waterproof and breathable. Same "technology" as water lilies (or some other plant?). Uses flourocarbons and nano particles. This sounds similar.
Problem with Schoeller fabric I've seen is it's heavy and not very available. Seattle Fabric has some I think.
If you could spray the stuff on your own fabric that would be nice.Nov 14, 2011 at 6:44 pm #1801799
If this stuff performed as represented, it would have obvious critical military applications, and would be under deep wraps, I think.
I've also become skeptical when the prefix 'nano' is used, and there is no coherent explanation of a nanotech application. The most recent example that comes to mind is the WPB fabric marketed by Polartec and Will's test results reported on this site.
And somewhere in the back of my mind there is a nagging feeling arising from something our high school physics teacher taught us that made me laugh on seeing the video of the so-called chocolate sauce slithering off the sneaker. It will come to me eventually.
Pouring cold water? Give it the iceberg treatment. Crunch.Nov 14, 2011 at 8:37 pm #1801866
"I've also become skeptical when the prefix 'nano' is used, and there is no coherent explanation of a nanotech application. "
No explanation is really necessary by a particular product, because it's actually basically common knowledge within the industry, in this case: the entire reason for hydrophobic surfaces is due to nanoscale physical surface structures. Tiny "towers" on the surface are what create a hydrophobic surface.
See the photos: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HydrophobeNov 14, 2011 at 8:39 pm #1801867
"Same "technology" as water lilies (or some other plant?). Uses flourocarbons and nano particles."
I think you probably mean lotus leaves. They are superhydrophobic and just about every attempt at extreme water repellency attempts to mimic their surface structure.Nov 14, 2011 at 11:36 pm #1801898Nick LarsenMember
@stingray4540Locale: South Bay
Heck, even if this doesn't pan out for backpacking(not breathable) I'm still excited about it for a ton of other things. My shower glass, no more squeegee! Granite counter tops. I'm sure I would find a TON of uses for it if they made it available to the public. And if it turns out to be breathable, it may very well change the way I backpack.Nov 14, 2011 at 11:54 pm #1801907Mike WBPL Member
@skopeoLocale: British Columbia
…Nov 15, 2011 at 5:45 am #1801941Jerry AdamsBPL Member
@retiredjerryLocale: Oregon and Washington
"I think you probably mean lotus leaves"
Yeah! I knew it was something like that : )
They have some hair or something on a very small scale, although must be much larger than a nanometer. If you see video of water dropped on lotus leaves it looks just like the video of this stuffNov 15, 2011 at 7:09 am #1801962Nick LarsenMember
@stingray4540Locale: South Bay
@ Mike W:
YOU JUST BLEW MY MIND!!!!!!!
I will pay anything for this product now, if it does nothing other than what you mentioned!Nov 15, 2011 at 10:11 am #1802007ziff houseMember
stuff could be extremely toxic, imagine if it gets inside the body making things hydroscopic where they shouldn't be. Nano stuff makes me nervous, its working at a whole new level, depends how ''nano' though.Nov 15, 2011 at 10:18 am #1802010Colin KrusorBPL Member
@ckrusorLocale: Northwest US
I'm reluctant to jump in and add more speculation, but I think (given that we are backpackers), it might be prudent to consider carefully the environmental impacts of a product like this. I'm wary of something that is so hydrophobic. If it is UV stable, super hydrophobicity might confer environmental stability. A small slick of this stuff on a rock might not immediately break down.
It is very important, biologically, that most natural surfaces are pretty hydrophilic. Wood, soil, and most kinds of weathered rock readily wet out, and the plants and animals that we appreciate as backpackers depend on that property.
I wouldn't want to look back in a few years and have to accept that a want for high performance gear drove me to take something into the backcountry that damaged it.Nov 15, 2011 at 10:31 am #1802012Diplomatic MikeMember
@mikefaedundeeLocale: Under a bush in Scotland
This sounds very similar to Ion Mask that was the 'next big thing' a few years ago. Some outdoor products here in the UK used it, but it never proved popular.Nov 15, 2011 at 11:31 am #1802044Carter YoungBPL Member
@kidcobaltLocale: Western Montana
NeverWet would be great even if it has no breathability for tent flies and packs, if:
It doesn't cost a fortune;
It is relatively durable;
It isn't highly flammable;Nov 15, 2011 at 5:25 pm #1802173
'No explanation is really necessary by a particular product, because it's actually basically common knowledge within the industry …'
'I will pay anything …'
That's exactly the desired reponse.Nov 15, 2011 at 5:40 pm #1802179
Have you even briefly looked at the physics involved?
All hydrophobic treatments do the same general thing to the surface. They could all very reasonably be considered "nano."Nov 15, 2011 at 5:51 pm #1802187
Sorry for not looking, although I did read the Wikepedia article before posting. As my first post revealed, I am not a physicist.
However, I am a former barrister with considerable experience in the area of consumer fraud, and prefer to believe that I know it when I see it.Nov 15, 2011 at 6:01 pm #1802193Ernie FuentesBPL Member
My wife got it as a test product in a household setting.
All I can say is that water does not stick to it. It comes out dry from the toilet.
It does work.
As soon as I saw it, my mind also ran to the potential uses of this product.
ernie the eyeballNov 15, 2011 at 8:39 pm #1802258drowning in spamMember
Forget the plunger, I want this on my car to keep the cats off and so birds can't mar my freshly waxed paint. Then I want this on my shoes so I can walk on water.Nov 15, 2011 at 9:31 pm #1802280steven franchukMember
This stuff simply makes it very difficult for water to stick to a surface. So water won't stick to the fibers of fabric. Water can still get between the fibers. Once it does, it will make it all the way through and you will get wet.
If water hits a sweater treated with this stuff most will roll off. However if it lands on a flat surface such as your shoulder it may sit there. Then when the next rain drop hits the first the resulting pressure will push water between the fibers. Any more rain drops that hit will drive the water further through the fabric even though the water is not sticking to the fibers. So a sweater treated with never wet will stay dry but water will still make it through to your skin. It would take longer but in the end you will get wet. Fleece would be the same.
A very smooth surface with densely packed fibers (nylon or similar fabrics) treated with never wet would work better but there is still space between the fibers. space that water can occupy and move through.
think of it this way. A bucket made from never wet treated fabric will hold a some of water but as more and more is put inside the pressure will eventually force the water into the space between the fibers, and eventually out the other side. Once one drop makes it through the rest will follow. The water won't stick to the fabric but it will stick to the water in the spaces between the fibers.
It was mentioned that a cell phone treated with this still worked after being submerged 1 foot in water after 30 minutes. This however is not a very impressive claim. for starters many printed circuit boards are now coated with a varnish or paint after assembly. This is done to keep it clean and dry. A well designed product would also have a gasket between plastic parts and buttons. Take the same treated phone and place it under 3 feet of water and it might fail in seconds due to the pressure driving the water in.Nov 15, 2011 at 10:54 pm #1802298Eric BlumensaadtBPL Member
@danepackerLocale: Mojave Desert
I'd love to spray NeverWet on my ski tops & bindings. Wet snow & ice would not be a problem again. Ski goggles would shed water and ice immediately. Gloves would not get wet, TENT STAKES would not freeze in the snow or ground, tent cords would be "untiable" in winter, boot tops would not hold ice, ski pole baskets would shed snow and ice…
And the list goes on. Rifle scope lenses would shed water and fog, rifle parts would be protected from rust, wooden stocks protected from absorbing water, slings made waterproof.
But… never, ever breath this stuff in. Wear a good mask when spraying.Nov 16, 2011 at 2:19 am #1802310Greig BarclayMember
Caught your post on ion-mask and while you say it never proved popular a few years ago, that has significantly changed as the following brands are using ion-mask technology on their products (footwear, gloves, hats) Timberland, Nike, adidas, Hi-Tec, Mizuno, Teva, KSwiss, Scott, Fox Gloves and leading Outdoor companies for example.
There has also been some comments about breathability and durability which due to the way ion-mask is applied it is able to offer both. Check out: http://www.p2i.com/ion-mask for more details.Nov 16, 2011 at 7:50 am #1802349Larry De La BriandaisBPL Member
@hitechLocale: SF Bay Area
It will be interesting to see how well this stuff really works. It never works as well as advertised since they only show you the best examples of it working. That said, I didn't think rain-x would work either. That stuff would be great if it lasted longer. It will works well (I noticed they mentioned it for comparison).Nov 16, 2011 at 1:16 pm #1802470Ryan CBPL Member
@radio_guyLocale: United States
Some poor fool is gonna try bringing non-stick cookware to a whole new level with this stuff. Curious to see what happens when someone accidentally ingests it…
Maybe they can come out with a version that can be applied directly to roads and walkways. Imagine that, dry and ice-free roads!Nov 16, 2011 at 3:39 pm #1802506AnonymousInactive
"Then I want this on my shoes so I can walk on water."
Be careful what you ask for. The authorities are almost as paranoid today as they were 2000 years ago.Nov 16, 2011 at 10:01 pm #1802639Eli .Member
Bah, that video that Andre posted is private now. Anyone have an alternate link?
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