Patagonia attitude toward gear recycling

[Ken Thompson]

I buy what I like and I don't give a dang about anyone else's opinion. We need more yuppies. They have disposable income.

[Dale Wambaugh]

+1. The stuff has to work and I don't care who makes it. I would prefer more subdued logos, but North Face is hardly the leader there. Gore-Tex must have some sort of agreement with the manufacturers and handing out discounts in trade for logos. An embroidered Gore-Tex logo can be as large as the manufacturer's and has to be sealed!

Stuff like ArcTeryx may be great, but there's no way I'm dropping $300-$400 for clothing to sacrifice to brush and mud. The only Patagonia I own was purchased used or with a steep discount. Of course, if I'm in a thrift store and I find something like that, who am I to refuse a gift from the Bargain Gods? :)

[James holden]

a person chooses what they want to wear and when they want to wear it … i dont have too much of a problem with that … all my dead bird jackets that i havent sold off are used in town these days … i find they dont work for me outdoors, at least not as well as the "cheaper" stuff ive picked up

i dont think theres anything wrong either with buying "yuppie" gear at deep discounts and using it well …

what i really do have a problem with is people who buy said "yuppie" gear and think its the best or it makes them any better … or even that the gear is much better than other "lower" brands or non branded items … if youve been outdoors enough youve seen those people …

the real damage by those people isnt whats done to my fragile psyche, i can deal with that by inviting them to climb and see how far they get (and im a shiet poor climber) … the real tragedy IMO, is the perception that to go outdoors and do activities you NEED certain name branded gear … over and over again ive seen people new and old to the sport spending money on "yuppie" gear because they thought "only certain brands are good" or "this brand is sooo much better and wont fall apart" … where the reality as we all know is quite different .. sometimes it means they dont have enough overall gear, other times they dont have enough moola to take all the trips they want …

ask yourself what are you REALLY buying with these brands

– innovation …. occasionally there will be the rare piece that is truly innovative, and you know what happens then? … everybody and their dog copies it … the patagucci R1 was great when it first came out, now you can buy a MEC copy that works just as well for less than 1/2 the price … innovation is so overused, and yuppie companies try to convince you that their weirdest new design or fabric will give you superhuman powers … weve all seen it and the lies

– warranty … sure patagucci and dead bird has a "great" warranty …. you know what … eddie bauer, MEC, REI, lands end, ll bean have one just as good or even better … i asked EB if my uncle could take back is 20 year old down parka …. they said hell ya, all our stuff is guaranteed for LIFE … my dead bird harness blew out, and it took dead bird a week to reply, so i just took it back to MEC and they just gave me a new one on the spot

– because its the "best" … i dont disagree that for certain items there are few competitors and it could be worth the price, the MB EXL comes to mind …. however ALOT of these products have been out for a long time … whats the difference between a dead bird, patagucci and mec fleece? … performance wise nothing if they are the same fabric, and the stitching is just as good on the mec versions …. will that dead bird underwear really give you the power to summit that mountain if you wore it instead of the target brand??? … IMO fleeces, underwears, weave softshell, even rain jackets dont have any definitive performance advantage between the brands

– durability … outdoor fabric in clothes even from places from costco and target are quite durable … a lot of clothing is made well enough for contant usage IMO … just because its a lower end piece of a brand, or a lesser brand itself doesnt mean it will fall apart … all gear will fall apart eventually … if you are an infrequent user, do you really need any "claimed" superior durability … if you are a frequent user, youll blow apart any gear if you use it often and hard enough … three $150 dead bird harnesses swapped out at MEC in the last 2-3 years made that very clear to me that it wouldnt last any longer than my old $50 BD harness which im still using now …

– ethics … i applaud patagucci for their used gear program, not many companies do this … however not all "yuppie" companies have such ethics … i wonder myself about the "ethics" of making gear that aint to different from everyone elses, making it overseas and then charging high prices for it …one company i will buy from despite the higher prices is westcomb … simply because they make it all in canada … as to greenesss … i think its a bit hypocritical to use driducks and other disposable gear, and buy/sell stuff on gear swap all the time with the associated emissions, or buy stuff you dont need and stuff it in the closet .. and worry too much about the environmental footprint

the bottom line to me is that there are companies that are trying to convince you that their gear is "special", or "the best", etc … and it works very well, people believe it … the sad part is that many dont realize it is simply not true and you dont need such gear to go out and have fun … nor will it make you any safer or better vs using other functionally equivalent gear from lesser brands …

dont believe me? … go read BPLs latest WPB report where the stoic vaporshell tested to be as breathable or more so than the majority of the more $$$$ brands

there are gear snobs on BPL, witness those hate REI (or other such) threads, if you are one, please dont tell people or insinuate that you the the latest, best, or even the lightest to go out and have fun … the reality is very different

[Konrad .]

Eric, thank you for providing what can only be described as a treatise on yuppie consumerism and marketing trends in the outdoor industry . WIth that said, how about we back off on the whole thing altogether. I feel you've explained your view point very clearly and thoroughly…indeed it was insightful to see where you're coming from. That said, when you literally interject every other thread with the y-word, it really just side tracks everything, and takes away from your own credibility IMO. It reminds me of a certain other poster who constantly posts how all packs are insufficient unless the features are specific to his needs…usually the remarks are out of context, and just come off as very opinionated with no value added. My 2 cents

[James holden]

i shall say no more on this thread … i cant promise not to use the Y-word … not if someone goes "oh buy (insert brand) its the best and if you dont youll regret it"

but i shall be more discrete in its use ;)

[Dale Wambaugh]

Gimme a Y-U-P-P-I-E

What's that spell? PROFIT!!!

What's that spell? PROFIT!!!

C'mon guys, even the Chanster can have a little rant now and then, eh?

[Dave T]

As Tom correctly observed, methinks some doth protest too much.

[Daniel Sandström]

So we've talked about the market, us buying stuff we might not need. We also just covered the phenom innovation, which is market standard next season.

However, after I read Chuinards book Let my people go surfing I try to see things differently. I have two things on my mind. First the practical example, a random factory vs a responsible one. I think about cleaning waste water etc – or in Patagonias case, also others dirty water – as well as taking care of your employees. That equals a larger chance for us to visit remote places with our children. Not dead rivers.

Second, the thing that really caught my mind. How about 100 years, or seven generations from now? Then your attention to details matter. Then that one bad product, times production over the years have made alot of harm. Also, there's no guarantee that the Patagonia brand exists in 50 years, but, there is a chance that the futures entrepeneurs have taken the lesson from them, thus doing stuff the right way.

My two cents.
Think ahead. Furhter than the next overnighter (/shopping tour).

[ben wood]

yeah, we al know that patagonia appeals to the yuppies. It appeals to me as well. Am I a "yuppie"? Maybe, maybe not, what do you call a "yuppie"? I really don't give 2 shats what the yuppie police say.

Patagonia as a company is doing by far more than most as far as environmental concerns, recycling, clean waters, employee treatment, common threads, etc. etc. etc. That is a good thing. Every step in the right direction is…… a step in the right direction. Why would anyone bag on them for that?

Plus they've always been super-cool to me. 2 stories here…
1. I called and asked if the nano pullover was going on sale anytime soon. She said she had one sitting in the back opened but new that I could have for %50 if I was a medium. right on.
2. I was lazy about ordering my wife's bday present. a duffel from patagonia. When I called to order I told the guy it was for my wife's birthday and "how much would it cost to ship it next day"? He said to tell her happy birthday and shipped it next day for free.

honestly, these are the things we tout the cottage industry for

[Kattt]

I would just be happy if I never had to read PataGUCCI and DEADBIRD again.
Oh, and I like their products.

[Art …]

I've been a Serious Patagonia clothing user in Serious mountain situations for 25 years. Their products are top quality as is their founder Yvon Chouinard.

. . .

[Paul Magnanti]

I have a Patagonia Nano Hoodie….
I ski in wool surplus pants….
My favorite two person shelter is the Lunar Duo…
And my overall favorite 'go to' warm hat is from MEC
<<–The wool hat over there is from a local grocery store

I'm so confused! :D

Maybe I just use what works and leave the labels to anon posters on the internet? ;)

[Kate Magill]

Hating on a label, like loving on a label, is just adding more fuel to the fire of brand wars/consumerism/aggressive marketing tactics/etc. I backpack to get away from all that, but it seems there's folks who just can't let go of their resentment/snobbishness/brand-based bragging rights… too bad you can't measure that stuff in grams, then maybe you wouldn't see so much of it in the UL community :)

[Kenneth Cowan]

Came in to say I've been surfing for 20 years and the best, most flexible, warmest wetsuit i have ever owned is the hooded patagonia r3.

[David Olsen]

Here is one take on it with some sources they post.

"Climate Change/ Carbon Emissions 2 out of 4

Environmental Policy 1 out of 4

Labour Conditions/ Fair Trade 5 out of 8

Overall score 8 out of 16."

http://www.rankabrand.org/Patagonia

for comparison

Arc'teryx 2 out of 16

Vaude 11 out of 16

[Mary D]

While I appreciate Patagucci's attitude towards recycling, I think it's mostly a marketing gimmick. Otherwise, why do I receive a thick, coated paper brochure in the mail from them every month, even though I've repeatedly asked them to stop?

I do have a few Patagucci items (Capilene base layers) which I bought as discontinued items on sale. The colors are awful (with one set, the top is garish pink and the bottoms are the color of wine vomit), but I try not to look at them–they're either inside my sleeping bag or worn under my hiking layer. They are comfortable, wick well, dry in minutes when wet and are lighter than most other brands.

[BlackHatGuy]

Mary,

You may want to check out Catalog Choice, which is a nonprofit that helps you get rid of unwanted catalogs and such. I've found it quite useful.

[Mary D]

Thanks, Doug, I'll try them. Patagucci is not the only offender! Campmor, LL Bean, a number of outfits I've never ordered anything from and never heard of before…. I suspect someone out there is selling addresses!

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