Custom Zpacks Zero – Finally Got the Perfect SUL Pack

I've looked at the Z Packs a few years ago, but felt I have too much gear. Sure would be nice to have a pack this light. I have to get a much lighter shelter (floorless original TarpTent Squall) and another item or two to get down there. Thanks for the info though.
Duane

Nice pack Dan… Want to trade back for the old one I got from you? ;)

I'll have to mull that swap over :)

If you want a sternum strap, send it in to Joe and I'm sure he could easily add one for a few bucks. He could probably make other changes too discreetly like snipping the hipbelt if you wanted….heck he might even be able to convert it to a roll top.

Thanx for posting the pxts of your new Zero. Very nice! I like the new shoulder strap attachment he is doing, and the roll top seems like a much better way to go.

Now why would you go and post such a sweet pack. Now i want one.

Ive just started going on sul-ish trips and use a 20 liter daypack thats as heavy as my Jam and a little too small for anything over an overnight.

Would you be able to post some pics of you wearing the pack for reference?

Glad I finally stumbled across this thread. I've thought about this pack of some variation of Joe's for a while. But as a day pack, not as an over nighter pack. Anyway, I'd also be interested in more picks showing how it fits and of course your trail comments on how it works in use. As I mentioned before, I think this would be a great place for me to get my feet wet in the Cuben lake. Thanks for sharing.

Here's a few more grainy computer camera pics to show the rough size of this pack.

Comments:
1) If the pack didn't have the rear pocket you could roll it down quite a bit more still
2) The roll top does have a tendency to stick up when the pack is rolled down to about shoulder level. If you just roll it a few times the roll top lays down (see pic #3), but if you roll it down to about where the shoulder straps attach then it likes to pop up. I think what I'm going to do is steal the idea MLD had for their 3.7 pack. MLD basically uses a clip and a short bit of shockcord tied to the top of the rear pocket, so you can clip this to the roll top and hold the loop down. As a bonus, it also secures your stuff in the rear pocket, so stuff like a shovel blade can't fall out.

Side view of the pack with the roll top rolled most of the way down to an average volume:

Back view of the pack @ average volume:

Side view of the pack at max volume (roll top with just 2 rolls to secure it):

Looks very nice. And my Blast is now a little big for most of my trips. Can you tell me which size Zero you are showing there? It looks like the size I need.

I ordered the 'small' size (10" x 6" x 24") but asked Joe to make it as tall as the medium size (12" x 6" x 29"), so this pack is actually 10" x 6" x 29".

My first Zero was a small and with my 6-7 lbs baseweight, I could really only fit 1 day of food in there. With this one I can definately fit 3-4 days of food….maybe more, and then I can roll it down smaller as I go. I really like these dimensions because it perserves the slim shape (which works well for packing a lot of SUL stuff like down quilts) with the roll top I can roll it down to whatever volume is needed. Stuff like my sleeping quilt, Echo I shelter and food sack all fit very nicely into a 10" x 6" packbody, so a wider medium size (12" x 6") would be a bit tougher for me to utilize well.

Another option would be to order the extra-small pack (9" x 6" x 19") but ask for it much taller than the normal 19"…maybe 9" x 6" x 25" would be a nice size for the true SUL folk.

IMO, the only people who would want a smaller pack than my 10" x 6" x 29" are:
1) Use a tarp (as opposed to a tent) and have a <6.5 lbs base
2) Use a tent, but legitamately hike at 4-5 lbs base often and don't exceed 3 days.
3) Have a 6-7 lbs base like me, but only do one-nighters.

Nice pics and excellent info. Thanks!

Good idea to go with 29" so it will do more days.

i have a small zero with the back pocket and side pockets. i used it during a 5 day/4 night trip this summer. 5 days of food was really pressing the limits of the pack. i don't have the sternum option or hip belt and don't really miss either. in fact, i find myself unbuckling my hipbelt on my bigger pack from time-to-time now. i use the zero every chance i get now b/c it is exactly what i want. light and simple…

joe's stuff is really great. he's quite the innovative guy…

For posting up some more photos. They did and do help. I'm thinking about one of these in a pretty small size for use as a day pack. It looks like it'd work great for me. And that green colors pretty cool too. Looks like you are in a bunk room up north where you are working?

Yeah I share a cabin with one other guy, but he's night shift and I'm day shift so always have the cabin to myself when I'm off work (12 hour shifts).

My experience wit the zero:

I am going to have Dan McHale build me a very small pack because my gear has gotten so small my LPB 36 is too big for weekend trips. Because of the amount of water I normally need to carry in the desert, I want one of his packs with the superior hip belt and aluminum stays. Dan suggested I consider cuben. I have several pieces of equipment made out of cuben, but just don't feel comfortable with it as a pack material.

So I purchased a ZPack Zero small to experiment with. I had Joe include two water bottle pockets and an exterior pad holder. Total weight is 113 grams (3.99 oz). No belt, and it has a roll top. Sternum strap is only needed when wearing a slippery top such as a Houdini wind shirt. For this I use very light guyline and a mini-biner. I can easily fit 5 days of food and 2 liters of water in the pack and not have to use the extension for added volume. The gear I carried for the first try at the bottom of the post. Down items were stuffed into a itty bitty cuben sack. I took my iPhone as a watch, GPS, camera and map as an experiment.

Total base weight is 3 lbs 7 oz. The gear is good for most of my 3 season trips. The pack is agony with a gallon of water, but wonderful when water gets down to a single liter. So far the pack is holding up well, but I worry if I slip on a cross country hike it might tear the material.

Impressive gear list Nick…you've got a few of my dream items on there! I've got a few questions…

How do you go with condensation under the cuben quilt? Does it affect your down vest or wet it? Do you often use the venting options in the epiphany foot box (i.e. open the drawcord and/or zipper)? I was wondering if I'd get Tim to just sew it right up or not.

How do you get your Leukotape down to 4 grams…do you cut off a strip and wrap it on a pole or something? I've found it doesn't hold its stickiness all that well after its been removed so I'm hesitant to do that, and always end up carrying most of a roll (can't get myself to remove most of it from a new roll).

What cuben fibre does Dan McHale use? Does he have some of the nylon faced stuff like zpacks?

Adam,

Quilt – I just open the vent at the bottom and vent it at the top. The cuben acts like a vapor barrier, so when you would normally need a vest, you can do without… or take it off after you warm up.

Leukotape – I just cut off a section and rolled it up. I have had it for a couple years, but have never needed it. I rarely get blister. Mike Clelland cuts pieces off and sticks them to a sheet of that non-sticky stuff that are used on mailing envelopes. That is my next task, when I get to it.

McHale packs – Dan has been playing around with cuben for years but has not brought anything to market except for a pack he made last year for someone who planned a Himalayan trek. He told me he is now ready to start offering them, but it will be a hybrid… pack bottoms and other key wear points will use another type of material.

So, I'll ask my own question. Nick, you say its murder with a gallon of water but fine with a liter. I'm thinking about one of these packs as a day pack. I carry anywhere between a liter and three liters depending on the conditions. Do you think with a bladder sleeve that it'd work good with three liters of water in it? If I get one of these, I'll get a hip belt too. I'm not thinking of this for overnighters, just for day trips. So the pack would have to support around three pounds of gear plus water and snacks and hopefully the water and snacks are gone when I get back to the car.

FWIW, Joe is now making the Zero's in both 1.5oz cuben and the 2.92oz Cuben/Nylon hybrid fabric that is also used my HMG in their packs and on the new Zpacks Exos pack. For anyone who's not comfortable with 1.5oz this would be great. I personally think I'm going to get years out of my 1.5oz cuben Zero though. The cuben/nylon stuff is sexier though.

Dan,

I have the 1.5 oz cuben. Looks and feels pretty bomber.

Warren,

I find any frameless pack to be uncomfortable when the weight goes beyond 10 lbs for any period of time, probably more than 25%. If you look at the gear list of 3lbs 7 oz, add 8.33 lbs of water and 5 lbs of food for 3 days. That is close to 15 lbs for a 3 day trip.

Dan says his base if 6.5lbs with one day of food. Add a liter of water and it is right around 10 lbs, which for me is the upper limit of comfort.

I have many, many miles with a Murmur with total starting weights from 17-20 lbs, and the belt helped a little, but not enough to make a difference. By the time I get my pack weight down to 10 lbs, my shoulders are sore and remain so for the rest of the hike. Tanking up with water at the end of each day is painful. But then I am an old fart :)

Joe makes some nice stuff. I have several cuben sacks, a Hexamid, a cuben poncho/ground sheet, and a rain skirt. Like anything else, you need the right tool for the right job. For what Dan is looking for, it is a really nice solution.

For me (27 yr old), 10 lbs in a pack like this is sweet and I'm skipping down the trail. 15 lbs is fine and by 20 lbs I'm not in agony but I would prefer my ULA Ohm. I'd definitely have sore shoulders after a few hours of 25 lbs. The deciding point between this pack and my Ohm would likely occur at a starting weight around 17-18 lbs. If I didn't have the Ohm and my other option was a 5 lbs pack then I'd push the Zero a bit higher….not higher than 20 lbs starting weight.

A 'normal' hike for me with this pack would involve a 6.5 lbs base, up to 1 liter of water and then 2-3 days of food, so that's a normal starting weight around 11-13 lbs, but I could and will go up to 5 days. I'm almost always hiking in quite wet areas, so my usual water strategy is just to carry one 1 liter bottle and then whenever it's empty I'll refill it at the next stream and drop a 30 min pill in. Almost never do I go more than a hour without water, but you need to really know both the locale (ie. PNW vs. Utah) and the actual route because you can easily get into trouble with stuff like ridgewalks even in wet areas.

Dan/Nick,

You guys always (nearly always in your case Nick! – refering to the "A Close Shave" thread) share very useful info that helps me in my decisions.

That being said, I will use this pack for DAY use only. With 3-4 lbs. of gear max and 1-3 liters of water. I will just carry whatever water is needed; so if its hot here in sunny SoCal where I'm at, sometimes it takes three liters. But mostly I take two liters or less. And I don't carry much food. Usually less than half a pound. I eat well before I go.

So, I would be carrying 4 lbs gear max and 6.6 pounds water max and another half pound or so of food or around 11 pounds max. And usually more like 7-8 pounds of gear/food/water.

So based on your comments, a Zero should work fine. Again, I'll have a padded belt to deal with the weight/stability. And that should help. Sound reasonable?

Yup…that sounds pretty reasonable to me. Since most of your weight is water, you might want to think about how you'll pack that. Throwing 1 liter water bottles in the side pockets doesn't work so well if the pack is empty….the pack sorta collapses. I think I recall you saying you'd use a bladder. Maybe ask joe to toss in a bladder sleeve so you can keep the heavy bladder secure and close to your back instead of floating in the bottom of the pack like a dead fish.

Dan, that's exactly what I was thinking. Hydration sleeve when I'm carrying that much water. If I'm local, I usually just carry one one-liter bottle with me and depending on conditions, it may only be a little over half full, so its not a problem then.