A Do-It-All Water Purifier?

[mark henley]

I don't generally notice a "taste" with Aqua Mira anyway, so I'm probably not a good judge.

[EndoftheTrail]

Sometimes, having senses that aren't so sensitive is a blessing. I very much dislike the taste of water after an Aqua Mira or Micropur treatment. The Sawyer filter looks very promising, but I've been told that it does nothing to improve taste. This is what I am trying to confirm.

As an aside, my sense of smell isn't the sharpest. People kept telling me about the "pervasive stench" in Inida. I smelled nothing out of the ordinary, and had a great time there. :)

[paul johnson]

Ben, the backpacking purification devices that i'm familiar with typically use an activated charcoal stage to accomplish the goal of improving taste, e.g. some First Needs filter/purifiers (some do both), and Katadyn ExStream, and perhaps some others that i'm not familiar with.

Does the Sawyer in-line have such an activated charcoal stage?

Does the Sawyer sales hype mention it? [what Ads-man would fail to miss a good selling point when "hawking" their wares???]

Please let us know how you like it. It's on my 2-B-Acquired list for sometime this coming Spring.

[EndoftheTrail]

Neither the 2 oz filter nor the heavier purifier incorporates any carbon / charcoal elements. The Sawyer filter and purifier will do nothing to change/improve the taste of water.

[EndoftheTrail]

PJ:

Right now, rather than looking for "do it all" cartridges that are invariably big and heavy (8 oz), I think I will do this instead:

Bladder–> Micropur tablet (virus/bacteria) –> Seychelle (protozoa, taste improvement) –> drinking tube.

This setup will do everything as well (removing all baddies and improving water taste), but is lighter and much more compact. Maybe the 15-minute waiting time is worth it? Plus, I have a concern that a purifier might clog up more easily/frequently?

[James Pitts]

I wonder what you are tasting in the Aqua Mira treated water that is so offensive? I can't taste anything. Aqua Mira is chlorine dioxide and it works by releasing oxygen into the water. I have heard people say it makes the water taste BETTER… now I don't know about that. I have drunk some pretty nasty water that I may WISH it had made taste better.

I have been getting lazy in my old age and have been using the chlorine dioxide tablets. I'll forget to refill my dropper bottles with Aqua Mira and have to tap into the three or four tablets in my first aid kit. I have been doing a lot of boiling as well so my pots are all black and nasty… looking pretty good actually! :)

[EndoftheTrail]

Each to his own, but I really dislike the taste of water after Micropur tablet treatment. Although not quite as bad as iodine, it's still a bad taste nevertheless.

Splicing a 3.6 oz. Seychelle (or equivalent) between bladder and bite valve might be the answer for me. This way, the Micropur tablet can do its work, and after ten or fifteen minutes, the Seychelle can then remove all sediments, protozoa (crypto, etc.), and the chlorine dioxide taste.

[paul johnson]

Ben, yours sounds like a very sound, minimal wait/weight (both intended) solution. I may give that a try as well.

James, i don't mind the taste of AqM either – very slight. However, i've read others who can taste it quite strongly even when dosed and used properly. A co-worker almost gags on it (and i had told him that it would be better than iodine treated water which he similarly detests). I've heard that some people swear that the taste varies depending upon water source.

[James Pitts]

One "solution" to the taste issue is to just wait longer. Perhaps the reason I don't taste the water treatment is that when I use the tablets it's generally water I will treat before i got to bed for use the next morning. I'll prep one or two liters and make breakfast/coffee with one and pretty much down it to get ready to hike. The second I'll carry rather than stop and treat smaller quantities because I get lazy sometimes. So the water has sat for many hours before I drink it and for sure the oxidants would have dissipated by then.

I played around with the MSR MIOX pen for a while. Now that DOES (for me) make really bad smelling water, like drinking out of your swimming pool. Yet if you let water sit long enough the smell would dissipate as the oxidants likewise dissipate. BTW, I was not pleased with this water treatment and if anyone wants to know more about it I'll fire up a review or something.

[paul johnson]

James, you probably identified the main reason for lack of taste. I try to wait fours hours after using AqM. Not sure what the half-life is of ClO2 and related oxidants, but i'm sure time takes its toll on these chems and they react or breakdown over time. Hence, less of them and less taste.

I'd love to hear more about your experiences with MIOX. However, b/f you sign up to do so, be forewarned, in the past couple of years this site has been monitored by MSR/MIOS Marketeers, of sorts, who will reply vigorously extolling the virtues of MIOX over other chemical means of water purification, while exposing the heinous downsides of AqM and similar treatments. They are polite though and i don't think that you should fear much more than a friendly verbal jousting match – certainly nothing like some somewhat recent wool "flame" wars.

My biggest problem with MIOX was getting the unit to work right. More than 50% of the time a fault would be indicated. Now i admit to being a techno-geek and a klutz, but since i was a kid i've had a knack for operating and repairing "all things mechanical and electrical" (to quote baby Dilbert's doctor). In this case, i'm not sure i'm the problem. Perhaps i just received a bad (i.e., somewhat defective) MIOX unit? In all fairness, others seem to have little or no trouble operating their MIOX unit. So, it would seem to be either me or my particular unit. My unit has been sitting in the bottom of a large plastic toolbox used for storing water purification paraphenalia. Re: Taste/Odor – well, the couple of times i managed to get it to work, i'll just say that it was stronger than AqM, but i successfully used it too few times to draw any statistical conclusion that i would have any high level of confidence in. I prefer simpler means – something which i like to call "Johnson-proof" (think "j" of "pj" here, and my meaning will become clear).

[Jay McCombs]

ben,

thats the exact setup I've used on my last 2 trips and it has worked very well for me. AM/MP tastes like pencil lead to me, all I taste is nothing w/my current set up…plus its somewhat redundant which is a plus.

[EndoftheTrail]

Jay:

Various different setup's have been discussed above. Sorry, can you specify which setup is yours? Thanks.

[James Pitts]

Pencil lead? That is really interesting (seriously). There is a reason for this and I am now dying to figure this out. I am not doubting your experience, just really curious.

[James Pitts]

OK, I posted my review. Bring it on! :)

[paul johnson]

James, you said "…There is a reason for this…". Believe it or not, besides certain genetic factors which can affect taste/odor, it is only now becoming apparent to Medical Researchers that one's physical and mental state at the time CAN AND WILL affect one's taste (yes, that's quite a bit different than odor, but the Research focuses primarily on taste). Depending upon one's mental state (and the physical state can play into this), one's ability to "taste" certain things is altered. Practitioners/Clinicians are hoping to be able to use a battery of taste tests to actually diagnose different types of mental illness/mental states (e.g. depression).

I'm wondering how one's physical state of exhaustion and mental state might come into play here (besides the obvious genetic aspect and one's upbringing as far as taste experiences).

[paul johnson]

James, good review. Your experience is quite similar to my own. I had always felt that i was using MIOX correctly, but had begun to think that my unit was defective. Apparently, your unit performs similar to mine. While both could be defective in some strange SELECTIVE fashion, it's perhaps not very likely.

However, instead of you and i being so negative, let's look on the bright side, shall we? At least we have an excellent device for purifying home tap water!

Just one last note regarding…

>>"Second, why do people insist on drawing comparisons with other products/treatment methods that are fundamentally different? Example: It’s not a strike against the MIOX if it can’t remove floaties from drinking water like a filter can. It’s not expected to."

I believe that i understand the intent of your words. I agree it's foolish to CRAB about something that a device was never intended to do. Hey, I love my AquaStarPlus, but it stinks at making hot green tea and boiling water for oatmeal. I can't recommend it at all for those uses.

However, and this is probably NOT what you were intending when you wrote the words that i quoted, I'd only like to bring out, for the benefit of any 'newbies', that such comparisons are 'ok', to my way of thinking, IF they are just that, viz. COMPARISONS used to evaluate the PROS and CONS of various different, or similar, methods of accomplishing some goal. Only when we compare the pluses and minuses as applicable to what we envision our intended uses and own personal situation can we weigh the alternatives and select the best method/approach/device/technique for our possibly unique situation. Unless i'm mistaken, i think that you would agree with this.

[James Pitts]

I can easily believe all of these things could be a factor. I know that if I have a cold my sense of taste is greatly diminished for quite a while. Smokers don't taste as well. I also know that there have been times when I have been more sensitive to "metallic" flavors (which I would almost consider "pencil lead" as being).

[Jay McCombs]

Sorry Ben, Seychelle w/micropur tabs.

As for the reason AM tastes like pencil lead to me…couldn't say. Could have been something in the sources I was using. Every trip after that I've used the seychelle just because I disliked the sucking on a pencil effect I had previously.

The lightest setup I use is hiking w/friends that are non-belivers in my minimalist system and insist on bringing their bigger heavier pump filters…heh.

[EndoftheTrail]

Hi Ray:

Thanks. A follow-up question for you. Does the Seychelle clog up quickly — where you either have to backwash the thing or "suck it up" ever harder as you go? Do you use some kind of pre-filter? Or is the Seychelle pretty much problem free thus far?

[Jay McCombs]

I backwash it w/provided equipment after every trip. I've never used it for more than a 4 night trip (can't get away for longer), but to this point I've never noticed a need for increased sucking power. I haven't ever filtered from any nasty water, most of my sources have been clear, rocky streams. If I thought I was going to be somewhere nasty I'd probably pour it through some panty hose cramed in the mouth of my bladder (I scoop using a gatorade bottle and pour into the bladder). My first seychelle leaked from every seam. BPL staff was rad and got me a new one out promptly and its worked perfectly.

[ronald liljedahl]

I was at REI last month and bought a Sawyer In-Line water filter (item number 750378. It is good to 0.5 microns. I spliced it into my platypus tubing and the thing works great! I also spliced a MSR Sweetwater Siltstopper inline filter just above the Sawyer filter (Item number 611748) and it is good to 5 microns. Both filters together weigh just under 3 ounces. With very little suction, I get all the clean water that I need.

We just did a 3 day trip and we ran water through a coffee filter directly into my platypus. Everything functioned perfectly and the water tasted great! It also works as a gravity filter if I hang it about 4 foot up in a tree using it to fill my wife's water bladder. It was so simple to do.

[EndoftheTrail]

Thanks for the feedback, Jay and Ronald.

Jay – Good to know that the Seychelle doesn't clog up too readily — at least when using reasonably clean water. I'm still mulling over whether to place the Siltstopper before the Seychelle…

I scoop water using a 1L platy — cut down curvy to about 4/5 size to facilitate both scooping and pouring. Works really well, weighs just 0.4 oz and folds completely flat when not in use.

Reynold – I was looking at the Sawyer, but ended up buying the Seychelle because it improves water taste. I treat my water with Micropur tablets and wanted something to remove the offensive chlorine taste.

[Douglas Frick]

>Sawyer In-Line water filter […] is good to 0.5 microns.

That is fine for protozoans, cysts, hydatid tapeworms and other 'large' critters, but won't be sufficient on its own for some nasty bacteria (e.g., Lepto). I was hoping the filter would be small enough to capture bacteria, passing only viruses (which aren't usually much of a worry for me). I wondered how they got 7-log "no pathogen" lab results while passing particles smaller than 0.5u–turns out they used a bacterium that is 2-4u in size for their lab test. E. Coli is much smaller than that, and should be able to pass a 0.5u filter.

Sawyer's marketing text states "Removes 7 log (99.99999%) of all bacteria like salmonella, cholera, and E. coli." I just remembered what my English teacher used to say about the difference between "like" and "such as": by using "like" they aren't actually claiming that the filter can remove E. Coli, they're using E. Coli as an example of something that is a bacteria. Scumbag marketing at its best.

Looks like I'll need to add chemicals where bacteria are a problem, as well as viruses. But at least this should cut the treatment time down to 15 minutes, since I won't have to wait the full 4 hours that is necessary to deal with large critters such as Crypto and cysts.

[Douglas Frick]

>When I get them I will report dry and wet weights and flow rates.

Sawyer 7/6/B Water Filter (SP120), 1.9 oz dry/2.8 oz wet. The filter cartridge alone weighs 1.1 oz dry if you want to carry a spare, although you'll have to buy another complete filter kit to get one. Length is 3.5" and diameter is 2.0"; it will fit through a Nalgene Widemouth. The filter displaces 100ml of water if used in a water bottle. Gravity-feed rate is 6 minutes/liter. The resistance while drinking isn't too bad.

Sawyer 7/6/V Water Purifier (SP125), 4.4 oz dry/7.4 oz wet. The purifier housing cannot be opened to replace the cartridge. Length is 4.5" and diameter is 2.6"; it is too wide to fit through a Nalgene Widemouth. The purifier displaces 300ml of water if used in a water bottle. Gravity-feed rate is 8 minutes/liter. The resistance while drinking is noticeable; I wouldn't want to drink over 1/2 liter at a time.

The kits include (2) hose clamps, a 3" piece of tubing, and a tubing coupler (total weight 0.6 oz) for connecting the filter or purifier in-line on an existing hydration system.

Sawyer 1 liter polycarbonate bottle + lid adapter + sippy lid: 8.3 oz (not including filter or purifier).

Sawyer faucet adapter, used for priming/backwashing at home: 1.9 oz.

I couldn't find any claim of the pore size or minimum particle size for the filter (or the purifier). The description on the packaging states (not just implies) that the filter will stop E. Coli and other small bacteria, so maybe the pore size is smaller than the 0.5u mentioned above. The filter lab test, by my reading, doesn't appear to support the claim that it can stop E. Coli and other bacteria smaller than 2u.

I will either use the filter in-line from a hydration bladder (containing raw water) or use the purifier on a gravity-feed system to fill a hydration bladder (clean), depending on whether bacteria and/or viruses are a local problem and how much time I plan to have to filter water. Even a quick lunch break should be sufficient to purify a couple liters of water. I don't really like to have raw water in my hydration bladder, so I now need to make/buy a silnylon gravity-feed bag. (The Sawyer gravity-feed bag looked too heavy.)

[EndoftheTrail]

Doug:

Thanks for the feedback. When using the filter, do you plan to treat the water with chemicals (i.e. iodine or chlorine, or chlorine dioxide)? The reason I moved away from the Sawyer filter is because it supposedly will NOT remove iodine or chlorine taste. I am still curious to know whether this is really the case.

I bought a Seychelle in-line filter instead. It removes chlorine taste completely (I plan to pour raw water into my Platypus bladder, drop in a Micropur chlorine dioxide tablet, wait 15 minutes, then suck the treated water through the Seychelle — to block any protozoa that the chemical might not be able to kill). I like the Seychelle thus far, but it does require me to suck noticeably harder.

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