Oct 8, 2011 at 7:30 pm #1280335
I'm not sure the design will interest many here, not exactly ultralight. Where I walk involves areas of extreme winds (often directional), sometimes poor pegging options and on rocky summits with little choice besides rocks (alone or over pegs). In cover there is often a need to pull tent seams over branches of low shrubs and spiky stuff. I had in mind something that could be enclosed fully (we get 2/3m rainfall.. night temperatures often hovering around freezing.
I was most interested in the tie outs (In this case more 'pegging points'). I wanted to use something abrasion resistant (for rock pegs), perhaps able to somehow 'give' a little in the reinforcement itself before meeting the cuben (where there is no stretch). I was interested in Dyneema X and somehow working with its inherent stretch
Where it covers a tie out changing direction (ie in a tipi style corner) would the circular form be most efficient? (To my mind it dissipates shock or stretching loads) appears fine on a mid panel but where changing angle and covering a seam i'm wondering about the various tensions at work or if they will matter much with such 'heavy' reinforcement'.., triangles seem a popular shape but are they better at pulling panels (via seams) tighter than semi-circular? I guess we'll see in the coming weeks lol..
Interested in the theory and any thoughts welcome, fire away.. ; )
These are some of the test samples I was using, shows the tie out about to be glued then trimmed..
The ones I eventually used had a smaller inner radius, larger outer 'half circle' (With the thought that it would help to disperse stress gradients, the asymmetrical one I tried did tear the cuben at the perimeter of this inner, inside circle. I should maybe have tested some more but there would e no mistaking the bond was up to the task if i made them BIG…Oct 8, 2011 at 7:38 pm #1788222
OK, perhaps a bit of overkill?..
Excuse the messy floor… windy dayOct 9, 2011 at 12:41 am #1788285
Doesn't look like overkill to me considering harsh conditions. The added weight is likely pretty low. Tie outs a big point of failure with a lot of cuben shelters from what I've seen.
As far as the circular shape being ideal for those hard corner transitions? Likely computer modeling would come up with something more complex, but it seems like a pretty safe compromise, and that's what I'd go with.
Looks good!Oct 9, 2011 at 2:57 am #1788308
Thanks Javan, finally got to pitch it today, I am thinking the reinforcements could be half that size and still do the job (so long as they don't act in some sort of radical way when wet, stretched, frozen.. long term..) I think iv'e seen tie outs with the cuben cut away but cant recall if they were trying to achieve the same thing.Oct 9, 2011 at 5:44 am #1788328
I'd love to see the rest of the shelter… looks great!Oct 9, 2011 at 9:19 am #1788385
@socal-nomadLocale: North San Diego county
Leave the tent alone it looks great and it will out last other cuben tents with the 210D gird stop reinforcements. Plus in harsh conditions it better to over build.
TerryOct 10, 2011 at 5:09 am #1788696
Henk SmeesBPL Member
@theflyingdutchmanLocale: Spanish Mountains
I’m thinking the same (small solo, for bad conditions) and will be using CT3.5K.18 Cuben for the fly. But…. since I thought that combining stretchy (Dyneema) and non-stretchy (Cuben) fabrics wasn’t such a good idea, I decided to use the same CT3.5K.18 for reinforcing the tie-outs points. To achieve the necessary elasticity, I want to use shock-cord.
And yes, I know, with CT3.5K.18 it won’t be UL but it should be bomb-proof.Oct 10, 2011 at 6:59 am #1788714
It's outside, i grabbed a couple of pics between storms, strong winds and rain : )
Two things I'm not entirely happy with.
There is no 'flapping' but it is moving round a lot. I should have gone lower with the ridgeline seam catenary, also with the zip seam.
It's pretty gusty from underneath. I'm considering a 'valance', floor, 'something' to block the sides..
It's been a steep learning curve, I didn't need any stuffsacs, packliners, flat tarps lol.. but i did give it a generous size and I'm ready with the knife if there are any sound improvements? One of the best outcomes is learning how to fix things as well as build them.
I'm not sure i followed any 'plan' but thanks for all the previous pioneers and posts on here, I don't think i missed any ; )Oct 10, 2011 at 7:04 am #1788719
Jerry AdamsBPL Member
@retiredjerryLocale: Oregon and Washington
I've been doing something similar, I think that's a really good design.Oct 10, 2011 at 7:07 am #1788722
Jeffs ElevenBPL Member
Well I think that tent looks sexy! I could see that the sides might let some air in, but if that is your first design- WOW.Oct 10, 2011 at 7:31 am #1788727
Henk SmeesBPL Member
@theflyingdutchmanLocale: Spanish Mountains
I really like it. My -initial- design is different in that it has a side entry and the front beak (which really isn’t a beak) has two tie out points -instead of one- separated about 28-30 inch (a little more than the width of my pad); this means I can have my head much nearer to the front part of the tent (therefore the tent can be a lot shorter) and, by using 2 trekking poles in an A-frame shape, I can have ‘storage area’ on both sides of the pad. This makes the tent a little wider, which could be considered to be a disadvantage but, on the other hand, it will make the tent less prone to moving around — I think.
With regards to “moving round”, you might benefit from lowering the apex by staking out the side tie-out points a little further apart (although that might not be feasible due to the length of the seam (zipper) in the front beak (don’t know).
I agree with Jeff, regarding this being your first design- WOW; as I said before, I’m impressed.Oct 10, 2011 at 7:37 am #1788728
@psandhu977Locale: Foggy left coast
This tent is really amazing!Oct 10, 2011 at 7:46 am #1788730
Stuart RBPL Member
That looks *really* good, I'm impressed!
To help block the gusts coming under the fly, you could try an idea that I used on my silnylon tent – a bathtub groundsheet with noseeum mesh sewn to the top edge of the bathtub and the top edge of the noseeum bonded to the inside of the fly. I did this for protection from biting insects but if you made the walls of the bathtub a few inches higher it would block the wind too.
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=46644Oct 10, 2011 at 8:08 am #1788731
Jerry AdamsBPL Member
@retiredjerryLocale: Oregon and Washington
Uh oh, we're sort of hijacking thread with other ideas : )
I like the peak like Paul's – it has to be high enough so you can sit up straight, move around a little, without your head touching the tent walls. 4 feet high is about right.
If there's a pole straight up in the center, it gets in the way. Better to have two poles, one on each side, in an upside down "V", each one 5 feet long. A little heavier though with all the poles.
I'de rather have a side entry for ease of entry. With the end entry, you have to get in and flip your feet around. It's sort of awkward.
But, the problem with the side entry is that when you open the door, if it's wet, water splashes onto your sleeping bag. With the end entry, there's a small "porch" area where you can shake off your wet clothes. Also, you can operate your stove there.
Then, on one side of your sleeping bag you have to leave it free, for room to rotate your feet around and take off your boots. On the other side of your sleeping bag is a little room to put stuff.Oct 10, 2011 at 9:36 pm #1789009
For the positive support. The other ideas are interesting. As i'm sure is the case with everyone who makes their own gear many of the alternatives did cross my mind. I guess little things can influence decisions along the way.
I realise the convenience of a side zip but as is I can open up the whole front and have it free standing, pole to the side, slung from a tree. I also like the idea of having the front open while in the tent in light rain. I don't much like acrobatics to get in, i guess that's where the compromise comes in.
Actually started with an idea of a stretched Shangri-la 3, it kept stretching and lowering with wind in mind lol..
Considered two poles but often use one as a monopod (or dont take any, its set up on a sawyer paddle shaft and blade at this height, the maximum height works well with a single pole and the tenkara tube.
Would like to keep the versatility in building any sort of floor or inner. I'm sure many have found this the difficult part from here ; )
Henk, I looked when I read your comment about the width.. In the second photo i realised that its not pitched straight at the ground side tie points (as it was built). the front will go out, might help..
Stuart, I like that idea. I like your tent, well done mate.. I am considering bonding a floor straight to the seam. I noticed you don't have ventilation in the end. I was considering none on the sides and a large adjustable vent in the foot end..
Really like Cuben Fibre. This morning (after two days and a stormy night), the tent looks like it did when first pitched..
Cheers guys, please, i like the comments, other suggestions feel free. I'm thinking of working it up to a two person shelter (after lots of testing) with the idea of using it on our guided walks (so it is very much a prototype)..Oct 10, 2011 at 10:37 pm #1789033
Very nice shelter, congratulations. How's the width inside it, foot end? I'd say the most important aspect of a wind-resistant shelter is the footprint to height ratio (ie angle). So I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you make a mark II, you can consider making it a bit wider for both comfort and stability, with a slight weight-gain ofcourse.
I love your tie-outs. I'm for round reinforcements all the way! They to take longer to make but I think they're both stronger and more beutiful. tarp
How did you finish the catenary edges, folded? Flat felled seams? Waterproof/ordinary zipper?
Good job.Oct 10, 2011 at 10:47 pm #1789040
I think i saw it, nice job iirc (the link does'nt seem to want to work for me).
i would likely take it wider (without going much higher) for a larger version. Size is fine (lets see, abt 28" across by 22" high as it is, pitched to the ground) but we do get more strong wind than heavy snow.Oct 10, 2011 at 10:50 pm #1789042
Is no 3 Urtek(?) w/proof bonded and sewn. The catenary baseline seams are two layers bonded and cut to shape (with a hot knife). Those on upright seams are made with Cubictechs tape.
Cheers, PaulOct 11, 2011 at 4:57 am #1789066
At this height with the pole forward it is big enough to face outwards and cook at the pole base, closed up in bad weather. I am hoping to pitch it higher in better weather, maybe pitching higher could acess more ventilation in the doing? Like to avoid an 'inner tent', perhaps a 'ceiling liner' if condensation proves too much..Oct 11, 2011 at 4:59 am #1789068
I like D rings ( I have some brass ones with a break/ unwelded that ive been thinking to test and find their breaking strain (maybe a good place for a 'failsafe'?) perhaps they should be circular 'rings'?)
I would like to find a way to draw the knot right up to the D ring, no linelock. I was thinking some form of prusik but it would need to act in a similar way to a lineloc, not just half the cord length ..Oct 12, 2011 at 7:08 pm #1789795
thats really nice . whats surprising is that you have what appear to be compound curves with a 'rigid' material like cuben.Oct 12, 2011 at 7:46 pm #1789809
Thanks. Do you mean with the 'billowing' on the sides behind the door? It does/should pitch a bit wider at the front, i think that curve was just loosening material at the front side seam, fascinating material though..
I'm considering removing another 1 1/2-2" from the main (ridgeline) seam (taking the curve lower), it does take a lot of front/ back force on the ridge guys to pull tight through there. May end up more a bivy like foot end but for a solo tent i don't see a problem?Oct 12, 2011 at 10:05 pm #1789861
Stuart MurphyBPL Member
How did you learn to do that? The design especially / how to know the shape of panels to get it to work? Is there a single resource to read or do you have to trawl the MYOG threads here?
StuartOct 13, 2011 at 4:15 pm #1790210
I don't think it is so difficult, they are all flat panels. I built boats, canoes kayaks but not much experience with fabric. I would probably add traditional features and try for a design that someone else has built (pattern would be nice). The rest is info gleaned from the good folk posting their ideas on here ; )Oct 27, 2011 at 6:11 am #1795509
Rob DalyBPL Member
@rdalyLocale: outdoors amap
She looks great Paul. Your design looks like it serves your high wind resistance purpose very well.
So, are any of the Cuben seams stitched or are they all bonded? Do you expect any condensation issues with your intended use?
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