Coming Soon: Tarptent StratoSpire

"If you want to increase the mesh distance from fly, unclip the two apex points and reconnect to the attached elastic loops"
I finally got to set up my SS2 outside today. You're right the guy outs aren't necessary to keep to the fly off the inner. It soggy PNW type conditions I probably will clip the inner lower to the elastic loops to get it further away from the fly along the ridge line. Head room still seems good with the inner an inch or two lower.

"Ok, so this tent seems pretty much perfect, but what are the drawbacks?"

This tent is really good (based upon just a couple quick setups and no real field experience). I'll mention a few areas that some people would view as drawbacks, while other people would prefer these for the weight or cost savings. It really depends on what you're looking for.

1) No inner pockets. Some people will miss these but it does save weight & cost. I'd prefer two.

2) Non-freestanding. Saves a lot of weight, but if you're camping on sand or snow then you need to be prepared with the proper stakes. A little more skill is required.

3) Materials. Silnylon is a good all-around fabric but I would prefer a less slippery and more waterproof PU coated 30D nylon floor. I would also prefer a lighter cuben fly, but it would add 50% or so to the price so it's not for everyone.

4) Regular (i.e. Non-water resistant) zips. The StratoSpire uses regular zippers in the fly with a flap of silnylon material over the zipper to keep water mostly out. This is a common practice, but a lot of higher end tents will use waterproof (ie. uretek) zippers, like the ones you'll see as the main zipper on a higher end shell jacket. The benefits of these uretek zippers are increased waterproofness and no hassles with the flap getting snagged in the zipper. I'd love to see Henry add these for V2.

And some eye Candy:

Those poles look very thin, what are they?

"Those poles look very thin, what are they?"
They're the TT poles that are an optional accessory. They are a bit flexy but strong enough for normal conditions. You'd want trekking poles if you're planning on encountering snow.

Trekking poles would be ideal, as they're stiffer and they're easier to set up the tent with, because you can have them a few inches short to insert them easily and then raise them to full height a bit later. This is minor though.

I plan to normally use trekking poles, but I ordered these because my wife's GG LT4 poles might be a bit short, as they are the small size that go to 49" and this shelter as spec'd at 50". Her poles will probably work, but one is broken right now.

"Most tents that use small poles to raise the corner only use one pole per corner. The Stratospire (and I think other TT models as well) use two small poles per corner. Why is this? It would be lighter to just use one and I don't really see advantages to using more. "
I haven't thought about this enough to explain it from a design/engineering standpoint, but the 2 strut corners are really strong and stable, since in combination with the guy line they form a tripod like structure. A single strut pole would be more prone to flopping side to side since its not 3 legged. The TT corners are quite strong. I think there's a video someone of Franco nearly standing on one.

I've got a weekend family trip coming up in the desert mountains which will be the maiden voyage for my SS2. Looking forward to trying it out and running it through its paces. Will try to get some action photos of it for posting.

> 1) No inner pockets. Some people will miss these but it does save weight & cost. I'd prefer two.

I was never entirely happy with pocket placement or function down low so I opted for two interior clips at the top of each door zipper. You can hang whatever you like off those clips including a suspended line. The clips are entirely pole supported so even relatively heavy stuff is fine.

-H

Well, I'd like a couple of pockets too. Near your head to put my tiny flash light in and my sunglasses so they are safe. Oh, and I wouldn't mind having one of these TT Strats either.

"Slick looking shelter for fair weather camping, sure wouldn't want to pitch that thing in a pinch somewhere up high or exposed when real weather hits."

That's pretty funny, actually. Not as good as the Trail Star, eh – when 'real weather hits.'

What the heck is 'real weather?'

It's alright Mufasa, retract your claws, it's just fabric.

~11,000'…. shoulder season….exposed ridge walking?

The SS2 isn't a shelter I would have in my pack under the circumstances above, that's all, just thinking aloud like everyone else here and expressing my opinion. I'm sure the SS2 will serve users faithfully in nasty bits of weather like Franco shared in his actual experience with the brilliant SS2 (*thanks btw Franco), but the pitching setup is more involved than I prefer in a shelter when all I want is one that can provide expedited shelter from inclement weather with as few steps as possible.

Eugene;
here is my SS2 set up video.
Do keep in mind that I opened the box about an hour before and this was my second attempt :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyQT9JHloQM&list=UU0PuLUKvG7Fxxex5BMVK4vw&index=5&feature=plcp
(the first time took almost 3 minutes because I was trying to figure out why Henry does it his way)
What you see is a set up in ideal conditions but please show me your shelter being set up in also ideal conditions in one take.
No camera cuts/editing and so on…
btw, I do have a bit of an idea of how mids (single and duo poles) behave. I would be happy to pitch the SS2 anywhere any other guy is happy to pitch his…
( no I don't mean those 30lbs arctic tents some mistake for "pyramid " tents
(that is the famous "i Have seen this type of shelter used in the Arctic…" no you have not.
Franco

This is just an observation, and in no way meaning any disrespect or mockery to anyone. I find most set-up videos very helpful and informative. Kudos to all who take the time to share their videos.

But….

Setting up any shelter in the wilderness is almost always more difficult than a flat piece of cultivated turf. Trees, plants, rocks (both above and below ground), hard ground, logs, roots, uneven ground, and inclement weather–or a combination thereof– all make setting up camp MUCH different than a calm backyard or nicely groomed campsite. Even oddly shaped and hard tent sites can be difficult.

Of course, I could just be bad at setting up my shelters.

That is why I stated "ideal conditions".
Eugene questioned the set up yet I see no evidence that his fav shelter is easier to do.
Mind you , not that two or three minutes is really that important, but don't make it an issue if you can't back it up.
Franco

"3) Materials. Silnylon is a good all-around fabric but I would prefer a less slippery and more waterproof PU coated 30D nylon floor. I would also prefer a lighter cuben fly, but it would add 50% or so to the price so it's not for everyone."

This would be an awesome option on almost any shelter, especially cool on the SS1 or SS2.

Hey did you find that the tent poles sunk into the ground at all? Mine are doing it. I was thinking about adding some kind of cap or tip to spread out the weight. Something like a trekking pole tip would be perfect.

"~11,000'…. shoulder season….exposed ridge walking? "

What kind of 'real' weather would you experience here? I can tell you that 11,000 feet in the Canadian Rockies exposed during the shoulder season is much different than that in say California. There we would experience horizontal rain, freezing rain, sub freezing conditions in July, snow, windchill of -15 to -20C, etc.

I ask a simple question and I get you with your chest puffed out. YOU made the comment that the SS2 is only good for fair weather camping. Now back it up.

"It's alright Mufasa, retract your claws, it's just fabric."

Really?

Yes Dave, I'm a "snarky little turd"….it pairs well with your sarcasm.

Sorry Dave, I don't have much desire to go around defending or "backing up" an insignificant comment made casually in passing on a forum. Forgive me for not possessing an equivalent amount of ecstaticism as you for this new Tarptent creation. It is a brilliant shelter, just not the tool for me right now. I'm sure I could be convinced otherwise, Franco is making it hard to look away from the SS2.

I took that back because I really don't know how tall you are.

I don't have 'love' for any shelter and in fact, own a Trail Star but I much prefer contextual commentary because it helps everyone understand perspective.

I forgive you.

I'm 5'11, so a slightly taller than average turd by US standards for males.

I'll work on my context here within the forums Dave.

I would appreciate that. In fact, your context is vital for everyone to not only understand your perspective but also to learn from it. Including me.

I appreciate not calling me Mufasa. I am more of the Scar type.

Good weather set up:

Bad weather set up:

Time from A to B 13.5 sec
See if you can shut the door in your tarp.
BTW, if in exposed areas I always have guylines in place regardless of shelter or weather.
So just pretend that guylines were in place in the pics above.
Franco

I don't own any shelters with a silnylon floor, but my understanding is that they aren't very waterproof, a groundsheet is usually required to protect against punctures, and they are slippery. I've never used a groundsheet, but the floors on my shelters are all PU coated nylon and something heavier than 30D. Concerns with waterproofness and durability continue to deter me from purchasing a TT, even though I love some of the new designs. So, here's are my questions:

1. How heavy of PU coated nylon floor would most people here require to be comfortable going without a groundcloth?
2. Could it be lighter, more waterproof, and cheaper to use a PU coated nylon floor (without groundsheet) than silnylon (with groundsheet)?

>I don't own any shelters with a silnylon floor, but my understanding is that they aren't very waterproof, a groundsheet is usually required to protect against punctures, and they are slippery.

Thomas, I can tell you that that we just don't get reports of floor water intrusion and floors just don't come back for repair (and lots of users don't bother with groundsheets). We have been using "Shield" (an invented brand name quoted elsewhere) silnylon, actually a Sil-PU double coating blend, for almost 10 years on floors. You're correct about slip factor and cost and incorrect about weight.

-H

"Hey did you find that the tent poles sunk into the ground at all?"
Yes they did an inch or two when I really tensioned up the ridgeline. It would probably be prudent to use a bit of wood or rock under the poles if you're camping on soft-medium ground and desiring a night tight pitch. A cap for the end would be ideal. In my case, I plan to pretty much always use hiking poles.

"I don't own any shelters with a silnylon floor, but my understanding is that they aren't very waterproof, a groundsheet is usually required to protect against punctures, and they are slippery. I've never used a groundsheet, but the floors on my shelters are all PU coated nylon and something heavier than 30D. Concerns with waterproofness and durability continue to deter me from purchasing a TT, even though I love some of the new designs.

You're sorta mixing two things…the fabric (ie. 30D nylon) and the coating (ie. silicone or PU/polyurethane). Silcone coated nylon is often called silnylon.

30D Nylon – 30D Nylon is a fairly light nylon, but with reasonable care it does just fine as a tent floor without a ground sheet. You don't want to pitch on gravel driveways, but otherwise it'll do fine as long as you do a quick scan of your camping spot to avoid big sharp sticks, broken glass shards etc. My last 3 or 4 tents have all had a 30D nylon floor, and I only ever put a small hole in one when I car camped on a gravel pad, despite never using a ground sheet. If you're hard on your floors, you could consider a 70D nylon floor instead. SMD offers both. FYI, when nylon is called '30D' it refers to the thickness of the individual strands of nylon that are woven together. The higher the number, the coarser and stronger the fabric (and heavier).

Coating – Virtually all mainstream tent manufacturers use PU (polyurethane) coated nylon. The PU coating gives it a bit more strength, but mostly it's there for waterproofness. Depending on the thickness/type etc of the coating, the waterproof (ie. hydrostatic) rating varies from lows are 1200mm up to 10,000mm.

A lot of cottage manufacturers use silicone coated nylons instead of PU coated nylon. I'm not sure how this originated, but it might have been because light/low denier (ie. 30D) nylons may have first become available in silicone. Mainstream manufacturers don't' use silnylon because it can sustain a flame if you light it on fire, so it doesn't meet some fire regs in somes areas, whereas PU nylon will self extinguish. Like PU coated nylon, the waterproof rating varies but it's generally lower around 1200mm but sometimes it's 2500mm. I'm not sure what the actual spec is for TT's silnylon.

The weight of silnylon and PU nylon is quite close for the same durability of nylon (ie. 30D). 30D nylon weighs about 1.1oz per square yard and after it's been treated with silicone it usually weighs around 1.4oz. PU coatings are slightly heavier, but we're talking about a finished weight around 1.5oz or 1.6 I believe….so the weight difference for the floor is maybe 0.2 – 0.4oz total.

Key Points:
– As long as you aren't' camping in puddles, the waterproofness of a normal silnylon should be enough to keep the water out. I've only had trouble with a 1200mm rated floor once and that was an older tent (non-TT) camped on snow.
– 30D nylon (whether it's silicone or PU coated) is durable enough to use without a groundsheet as long as you exercise reasonable care.
– Silnylon is slippery, you'll want to dot the underside of your pads with silicone to prevent sliding.
– On average, silnylon is less waterproof than PU coated nylons
– On average, silnylon is a hair lighter.

I personally prefer PU because the weight difference is negliable and it eliminates the slipperyness. The increased waterproofness is more of a side bonus in case things go sideways and your campsite floods. This is for tent floors, for the fly it really doesn't matter, although some might still prefer the PU because it doesn't hurt to have a more waterproof fabric.

30 D is 30 Denier.
That is the weight of 9000 linear meters of that yarn (30g)
So a 70 D floor will be about 2.3x heavier (but not necessarily thicker) than a 30D floor.
Franco

Thanks Franco. It's amazing 9 km of that yarn only weighs 30g. Hard to fathom even.

Thanks, Dan and Henry, for your comments. Very helpful.

Based on some of the comments here, is the consensus that the SS2 would be a more wind and storm worthy shelter than the Double Rainbow? It has many of the features I like in my current DR + being double walled ish (mesh and not a fabric inner), so if the SS2 is more stable in strong winds, I might be inclined to make a new purchase…

Thanks for the feedback.