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Best way to revive DWR?


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Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 31 total)
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  • #1277279
    Yoyo
    Spectator

    @dgposton

    Locale: NYC metro

    OK, what's the skinny on the best method of reviving worn-out DWR on your rainjacket, etc.? Right now I have a bottle of Nikwax TX Direct wash-in. Works OK, but I have an old REI rainjacket that just keeps wetting out. Is there a limit to reviving DWR?

    #1763677
    Eric Blumensaadt
    BPL Member

    @danepacker

    Locale: Mojave Desert

    This is my best DWR renawal solution:

    1.wash GTX garments in NikWax wash and rinse well

    2.use NikWax wash-in DWR and dry in a med. heat setting

    3.spray on REVIVEX DWR

    This double DWR treatment gives me the best, longest lasting results but using REVIVEX is important B/C it's the best spray-on DWR on the market. It's what Gore specifies that makers of Gore-Tex germents use.

    #1763723
    Yoyo
    Spectator

    @dgposton

    Locale: NYC metro

    Hi Eric

    I may try your procedure.

    Two questions:
    (i) Does the Nikwax wash remove any previous DWR treatment, and
    (ii) Will any non-detergent soap work as well as Nikwax for general cleaning?

    #1764880
    Yoyo
    Spectator

    @dgposton

    Locale: NYC metro

    I just ran across this product by Atsko called "Permanent Water Guard."

    http://www.atsko.com/products/waterproofing/permanent-water-guard.html

    Is it really true that such DIY DWR-treatments can exceed the original DWR-treatment by the factory?

    This leads to a more general question about DWR-treating in general. Does a garment repeatedly "wetting out" signal that the garment has exceeded its usable lifespan, or can self-applied DWR treatments restore the garment to like-new water repellency?

    #1764937
    Eric Blumensaadt
    BPL Member

    @danepacker

    Locale: Mojave Desert

    David, the Nikwax Wash will remove most of the original DWR since it is a "surficant", to use the technical term.

    I'd try my procedure first using REVIVEX because it seems to be the best spray-on available.

    When your WPB rainwear gets sweated up just run it through two wash cycles with NO soaps of any kind and then put it in a medium heat drier for 20 minutes to revive the DWR. That seems to clean my gear snd revive the DWR quite well.

    BTW, when youre raingear gets so dirty you have to wash with a "soap" made for laminates then you must renew with more DWR treatment.

    #1764942
    Yoyo
    Spectator

    @dgposton

    Locale: NYC metro

    You mean "surfactant"? That surprises me, as I thought that the technical washes such as Nikwax are not supposed to contain those.

    Edit: I just noticed on the back of the bottle of "Sportwash" (by Atsko) that I just picked up at WalMart that it does contain biogradable surfactants. However, interestingly it says that washing waterproof-breathable clothing in Sportwash will RESTORE the original DWR treatment.

    Can someone help sort this out? From my knowledge of surfactants, they will reduce the surface tension of water and hence will negatively impact DWR treatments, so Eric you seem right on this score.

    #1765124
    Evan Cabodi
    BPL Member

    @blackrock

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    Here are the steps I take for any gear that came with a DWR coating that's worn out.

    1. Wash and dry the garment with one of the many technical washes to remove all the grease and dirt.
    2. Spray on the new DWR treatment such as the ReviveX Spray on Water Repellent.
    3. Let the new coating soak in then dry the garment on low/medium heat.
    4. Repeat spraying on more DWR treatment and dry cycle focusing on high use areas like shoulders and arms.

    It generally takes at least two applications of the DWR spray with dry cycles before it starts to really do it's job. You'll notice after the first application that the second application won't soak in as well which is what you want. What I'll also do is spray on the DWR coating then rub it around on the garment forcing it to soak in throughout. If you get really amped on it and go for a third or fourth coating you'll eventually find that the places you've actually got enough DWR it will really bead up.

    Running through those steps will ensure you've got solid coverage on the garment, especially in the high use areas. I find that the ReviveX lasts another 1-2 years before I do it again.

    #1765136
    Chris Townsend
    BPL Member

    @christownsend

    Locale: Cairngorms National Park

    I haven't found Nikwax Tech Wash removes any DWR. Nikwax says "This product is a non-detergent soap which can be used regularly to clean clothing and equipment without damaging the Durable Water Repellent (DWR) coatings. Use this product instead of detergents or washing powder.". However plain soap powder or liquid is much less expensive and does the same job.

    If the garment is really filthy I was it in non-bio detergent first (Tech Wash and soap are not that good at removing much dirt) then was it in Tech Wash or soap to remove any detergent traces.

    When DWR needs restoring I apply an appropriate treatment, following the instructions. I prefer Nikwax products as these don't require heat to work – I don't have a tumble drier. When I've used Grangers I iron the garment or dry it on a warm radiator.

    #1765229
    Yoyo
    Spectator

    @dgposton

    Locale: NYC metro

    Eric

    Have you tried Permanent Water Guard by Atkso? They boast that their product equals or exceeds OEM DWR treatment.

    Chris

    Do you use the wash-in or spray-in version of Nikwax? I was curious whether the wash-in version would impede breathability of the garment, since you are adding DWR to the interior as well as the exterior.

    For what it's worth, Atsko claims to have the best stuff on the market. I just ordered a bottle of their permanent water guard and will be trying it out on my waterproof-breathables. I also just picked up their silcone water guard at Walmart for a modest $4.97 and will try it out on my packs (maybe tents)?

    #1765238
    peter vacco
    Member

    @fluffinreach-com

    Locale: no. california

    so: i tried that nikwax stuff a few years ago, and all it did was make my kit feel waxy and damp. the fabric never after that really dried out properly. thusly, i am not a huge fan of the nikWAX way of doing things.

    last spring i was in needs of reproofing my e-vent, so i called mcnett. they opined that their wash in goop was the way to go, and then touch up with revive-x. i did that routine and it worked great. no problems. dries nice and crispy dry.

    nikwax – not so good.
    mcnett – works fine. no worries.

    peter v.

    #1765242
    Chris Townsend
    BPL Member

    @christownsend

    Locale: Cairngorms National Park

    David, I use the wash-in Nikwax products unless the garment has a separate wicking lining. I haven't had any problems with a waxy or wet feel and I use Nikwax products on a fair bit of clothing, not just rain gear.

    #1765470
    Troy Childs
    Member

    @tchilds

    I use 303 protectant on all my gear including tarp and hammock. It is the best product I have found and only needs to be applied every 30 days or so of UV exposure, or after about 6 washes with woolite.

    I like the other products mentioned too but find 303 gives the most consistent results, no matter what I'm spraying it on.

    The best part about 303 is it makes stiff synthetic materials feel softer and less crinkley. Its like conditioner almost.

    #1765515
    Yoyo
    Spectator

    @dgposton

    Locale: NYC metro

    Can someone educate me on the basics of DWR chemistry? Are the factory-applied DWR treatments fluorocarbon-based, and is the same true of aftermarket treatments (McNett ReviveX, Nikwax TX Direct, etc.)?

    I just treated my Tilley hat with Silicone Waterguard (by Atsko) and, aside from the terrible smell, am now concerned that I will now turn my hat into a sweatbucket. I can't imagine silnylon being very breathable.

    Just curious which DWR treatments are best for maintaining breathability.

    #1765669
    Eric Blumensaadt
    BPL Member

    @danepacker

    Locale: Mojave Desert

    I too would like to know the chemistry of the various DWR treatments like Tectron and Revivex. I do know that silicone spray-on treatments do not last and are not very good as a DWR.

    #1766131
    Troy Childs
    Member

    @tchilds

    Does anyone else use 303 protectant as a DWR? I use it on dacron (polyester), nylon, and monofilm, all with the same results. It is a simple spray on, dry, wipe off process. The results are great, restores color to UV damaged synthetics and protects them. I use it on my vinyl dash in my car, on my tires, etc etc.

    It is truly a wonder and one spray can treats about 174sq ft so it is also quite a bit more economical than a lot of the "DWR" marketed treatments.

    Am I really the only one that uses this stuff?

    #1766690
    peter vacco
    Member

    @fluffinreach-com

    Locale: no. california

    i personally, might go with Mr Townsend on this one.
    my fiasco was some time ago, and going into it i did not like concept of the wax in nikWAX.
    if it goes well for Chris, run with it.

    peter v.

    #1766692
    Evan Cabodi
    BPL Member

    @blackrock

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    I've tried a lot of the "tech" washes but none of them work that well. Haven't tried the 303 but I can say that I've been doing multiple coats of the spray on for years with heat cycles on my rain layers used for wet aid climbing in the winter and it definitely works well.

    As for DWR coatings, I was under the impression that most are still fluoropolymer that's sprayed on.

    #1766693
    Chris Townsend
    BPL Member

    @christownsend

    Locale: Cairngorms National Park

    Nikwax certainly doesn't use fluorocarbons. On products it says "No propellant gases, non toxic, environmentally safe. Not tested on animals. Does not contain fluorocarbons".

    There's more info here – scroll down to "Environmental"

    http://www.nikwax.com/en-gb/faq/index.php

    Not all Nikwax products contain wax. The name comes from the original product back in the 1970s – a tin of boot wax made by chemist Nick Brown, hence the name.

    #1767050
    Ankar Sheng
    BPL Member

    @whiskyjack

    Locale: The Canadian Shield

    Is washing with a tech wash necessary if you're reapplying the DWR? If all it's accomplishing is removing detergent residue, couldn't you do that with just plain water and save the tech wash for laundering after the fresh dwr is on so it doesn't get washed out?

    #1767163
    Cheriss Faiola
    Member

    @wildernessready

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    Hello, I'm with McNett the makers of ReviveX and can shed some light on the topic. The restoring process includes 1) remove dirt, oils & residue 2) restore DWR.

    Step 1 – A freshwater rinse will help, but won't remove all of the dirt, oils & residue that's affecting the DWR. Household cleaners aren't recommended because they'll leave behind even more residue. Using a specialized soap will clean the fabric, restore breathability, and provide a clean slate for DWR.

    Step 2 – If the jacket has a relatively new DWR coating, then heating will reactivate. If not, you'll need to apply new DWR. ReviveX is great because it's a heat-set forumla & the only DWR that restores it to factory-level condition. Plus, its spray-on so you can target high-wear areas. You DON'T need to use two different waterproofing products.

    Tip – Try cleaning your outerwear regularly, you'll maintain excellent breathability & reliable water repellency.

    Feel free to reach out to us anytime.

    #1767261
    Ankar Sheng
    BPL Member

    @whiskyjack

    Locale: The Canadian Shield

    Hi Cheriss, thanks for the input. If using two dwr products, a wash in then spray on, as previously suggested, will the products interfere with each other? Could a wash in DWR be used, then the spray added to high-wear areas to avoid having to spray every inch of every garment being treated?

    Is there any diferenc in performance between the sprays and wash in treatment?

    Thanks,
    Ankar

    #3503926
    Eric Blumensaadt
    BPL Member

    @danepacker

    Locale: Mojave Desert

    Lately some have found “Granger’s Extreme Repel” spray-on DWR to be even better than REVIVEX. I’ll have to try it on 1/2 of my GTX PacLite rain pants to see if there its any difference.

    #3503930
    Pigeon
    BPL Member

    @popeye

    Anyone try atsko silicone water guard on a sleeping bag?

    #3503996
    Stumphges
    BPL Member

    @stumphges

    From what I’ve read, the durability of the three types of DWR available are, from best to poorest:

    Fluorocarbon (Revivex, Grangers, et al.)

    Wax-based (Nikwax)

    Silicone

    My experience with silicone sprays is that it wears off much more quickly than the other two.

    #3504090
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Fluorocarbon (Revivex, Grangers, et al.)
    Now known to be rather toxic, especially to the people living near the factory. Deprecated and phasing out.

    Wax-based (Nikwax)
    Works OK

    Silicone
    Sensitive to abrasion, but serves very well to freshen up the surface of silnylon. I respray my silnylon tent every couple of years – and leave it out for 12 hours to bond.

    Cheers

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