Gauging interest in a pack design

[CW]

I've been heavily discussing a pack idea with a couple of local friends and BPL members and would like to see what kind of interest there might be in it, were we to decide to offer some for sale.

For all intents and purposes, think of a taped cuben Golite Ion with the ability to attach modular components.

[Brian Green]

Are you willing to share photos yet to receive input on what you have so far? The text description leaves a lot to be desired. I'm even close enough to check it out in person if you want a beer and feedback :-)

[CW]

We're sewing a few protos next week and I can post some teasers then. I was intentionally vague. :-)

[Philip Delvoie]

Looking forward to seeing the pictures of the prototypes Chris. I would be interested.

[EndoftheTrail]

Definitely looking forward to seeing your pics, Chris!

[Nick Gatel]

Of all gear, backpacks seem to have the most competitors, even on the UL scene. How do you plan on differentiating yourself?

[CW]

We're not starting a gear company (at this point), so it would be a limited product run.

But, for arguments sake, the pack body would have a contoured design. It won't be your standard square or tubular stuff sack with shoulder straps attached to it. That's one of the major differences. The other would be the ability to attach modular components. Dan McHale has that nailed down on bigger packs, although I do know of a new pack coming with a similar option. Dan's packs and the new pack, though, are both large. This would be somewhere in the 1500 cu (25 L) range off the shelf.

We plan on making a few for ourselves, I'm just curious if there would be enough interest to make a few more and offer them up.

[EndoftheTrail]

"How do you plan on differentiating yourself?"

Well, we know it's cuben, so insanely light but strong materials. Fantastic design. Impeccable workmanship. And insanely low price. I am sure. :)

[Nick Gatel]

Chris,

I would build your own and then go test them. Once you have worked out all the design elements, then gauge interest.

[CW]

Well, we do have it worked out on paper. I just don't want to give too much detail (think Backcountry Boiler and mKettle fiasco).

I forgot that it will be completely waterproof.

[Ron Jameson]

Will It fit big tall 6'5' 240. Us big guys like to go light weight too!
Ron

[CW]

Ron,

I'm sure that could be accommodated.

[Link .]

5' tall 107lbs

[S Long]

I would be interested depending on specs and how the prototypes come out.

[Kim Clements]

I have been thinking about the same idea but I have no sewing experience or time right now. Here are a few of some of the things I was thinking:

Simple bag like an ION ( I have an ION and love it) but maybe with an external sleeping pad pocket.

Waterproof Zipper lid like ION but with a lid sized zipper mesh pocket inside the lid.

Multiple 1/4" webbing attachment points on the back and both sides of pack. The points might be 2" apart to attach external pockets and bungee cords.

The pocket options would be sized to fit 1L, 2L, and 3L platypus bladders. Maybe 2 sizes of front large mesh pockets. A few smaller sized pockets to attach to the sides for miscellaneous items. Also maybe a long (length of pack) side pocket for a tent.

The abilty to attach a sleeping pad to the top or side.

[Devin Montgomery]

Is this something along the lines of a smaller/lighter version of the "featureless" pack Ryan had been working on with HMG? I definitely like "featureless," sometimes like modularity. But the latter is really only appealing if separability adds useful function. A modular pack whose components are always together loses to an integrated pack with the same features (in terms of weight, simplicity, aesthetics).

Long way of saying: "tell me more about the modules." :)

[CW]

Devon, the pack Ryan has been working on with HMG is pretty large. His personal pack is actually even larger than the model they plan to sell (I have one of the current protos). It's a bit more expedition sized.

With a smaller 2-3 day pack, a lot of people like them stripped down. Some add-ons might be a stretch mesh pocket for the front, water bottle pockets for the sides, or even expansion packs for when you can't quite get it all in the main pack. Those are just thoughts at this point.

With the HMG, I've made a stretch pocket for the front and huge hip belt pockets. I also may make water bottle pockets for the sides. In my case, the mesh pocket on the front will almost always be used in my home area. Whether I take one, two, or no hip pockets will vary by trip. In other areas I might switch the mesh pocket out for a solid fabric model. I like having one pocket I can vary the features on. Right now the HMG is my only pack. I hated having a ton of redundant gear lying around for specialized trips. I'd rather have a generic pack I can attach specialized pieces to. Of course, I may be completely alone in that line of thought.

[Devin Montgomery]

"Right now the HMG is my only pack. I hated having a ton of redundant gear lying around for specialized trips. I'd rather have a generic pack I can attach specialized pieces to. Of course, I may be completely alone in that line of thought."

You're certainly not alone in that. I've been doing a lot to shorten my gear list – not what I take on trips, but what I own. It often means that short/fair weather trips are heavier than they would be with specialized gear, but I'm not too sad about that.

One pack is part of that, and I've come very close with one of the older Jams. All compressed, it's a luxurious day-pack. Packed to the gills, with the Ridgerest on the outside, it does winter. It was only the obnoxious bear canister and shared shelter responsibility that proved too much for a trip to the Sierras last summer.

So what I'm really interested in is the pack that can stay an "only pack," but that diverges from this thread. I do see how modularity allows for optimality (font mesh for summer drying, front solid to keep out winter drift) with one pack. I'll be interested to see it when you're good and ready. :)

[Michael Fogarty]

If I were ever to go back to the Uber Ultra-lightweight side, I'd probably opt for a GG Murmur. Being waterproof is not a big deal for me, I use an internal plastic bag to keep my gear dry anyway.

[Ryan Smith]

Sounds promising. More cuben packs are a plus since not many being made right now. The modularity is an interesting concept, but seems difficult to pull off effectively. So far all attempts I've seen are a little shoddy looking.

Ryan

[Josh Platt]

Chris, I would buy it in a heartbeat if it is an ion with water bottle pockets and a front mesh pocket. I had an ion that I just sold because I didn't have the confidence to modify it or let anyone else modify it.

I think it would be cool, if you go this far with it, to offer different fabrics. I would prefer dyneema to cuben. Granted, i've never tried cuben…..

[tommy d]

Any idea on the price?

[Hobbes W]

The key isn't pack fabric, but design. And the key to design is to emulate what architects did when developing the first steel framed buildings. That is, what are the support mechanisms? Is it the (visible) cladding or the interior infrastructure?

Not to give too much away, but what/where exactly are the stress points and load bearing/shifting mechanisms on a backpack? Now, what is the max load is expected? 20 lbs or 50 lbs? If it's 20 lbs (personally, I shoot for 15, including food/water), then what material best serves as a suitable carrying framework (ie not the pack fabric itself), given some margin of safety?

Once you've got that figured out, putting on the "cladding" is trivial. Whether it's cuben, M90, 1.1 ripstop, what-have-you, the likelihood of a distributed, 15-20lb load busting out the fabric is negligible. The seams? Yeah, maybe, which is why reinforcements are judiciously placed.

It's not difficult to either think through or build. I'm very happy with my 10.6oz pack. It's a std 36L by 36C backpack, with the key being where I placed the shoulder, sternum & hip straps/belts, and how I anchored them. Every time I take it out, I get people interested in trying it on – and this includes those with std ULA, GL & GG packs.

But I just don't see how a retail market can be developed for this kind of product. No one spending any money is going to accept such a minimalist configuration without a full demo. Like the high Sierra trout I hunt with flies, humans cannot seem to resist flash, hence the bells & whistles on even supposed UL packs. However, those who have the confidence in the design and (truly) understand how/why it works will simply do-it-themselves.

[BlackHatGuy]

I'll take one!

I'm sure that doesn't surprise anyone…….

[Eugene Smith]

Why cuben?

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