Tent under 8.5 oz.

[Jason Acker]

In its current state, this tent is useless to most people. It can only be used in situations where a tent isn't even needed in the first place. There is no way that this thing will keep rain out and I highly question its durability and wind resistance. There was barely a breeze in your video and it looked like it was at its wind limit. At the very least you need to make it so the roof overlaps the floor and make it so you can pitch it low.

How are the seams joined or sealed on this thing and how are you making the corner reinforcements?

Finally be sure the aspect ratio on your website's pictures is correct because right now you are borderline scamming people with those distorted pictures considering your "no refunds" policy.

Have you actually used this tent on real hikes? Its pretty ridiculous to start selling something that is untested.

[drowning in spam]

Is the fabric a tyvek & space blanket composite?

[Matthew Perry]

Buyer beware…

Maybe you could contact a Wal-Mart buyer? Probably be a big hit there.

[Joey Dawson]

I really feel like this post should have been made on April 1st.

[J. X.]

Not standard Tyvek house wrap or space blankets…

special adjoining of the seams with a polypropolyn film and hot melt synthetic rubber resin (ASTM-D3759) 47lbs/inch width tensile strenth)

the reason I am not offering returns is that I don't want a bunch of weekend warriors on their annual weekend/summer hike "roadtesting" the tent and finding out that it actually does tear if intentionally abused and then mailing it back to me… just like shoes, if you wear them outside -you own em'….

I will have some video of actual field testing up shortly…

[J. X.]

one simply cannot judge a material that has a particular scientific stress rating based on the fact that it's blowing in the wind and to say it's at it's "wind limit" is not really a fair statement as you have no other data other than the wind was blowing…

[Dustin Short]

With it's short length and tall height, rain can easily enter the sides of the tent if the wind is blowing in that direction. The rain will probably reach pretty far in (at a 45d angle it'll reach about halfway into the "tent."

So pitch the tent so that the sides are facing the wind, right? Well with it's steep walls and high profile, it has to deflect a lot of wind. More than a space blanket with any pinholes or unhemmed edges will probably be able to handle. Not to even mention the horrible noise it will make.

I'm all for the cottage industry, innovative gear, and small business, however your design is little more than useful only in emergency situations, at which point there are existing products that are cheaper and just as light. It's a reinvented wheel. Also if you're looking to make a light shelter, comfort be damned, spaceblanket bivies are hard to beat for weight and price.

[Dustin Short]

I watched your video…

You're using heavy duty paper clips (those black triangular ones for large stacks) as your guy outs. Since they aren't included, the end user must supply them (and thus the tent is already useless to pitch). Also those will put holes and uneven stresses on the mylar, creating failure points.

As for sourcing tyvek…

http://www.kitebuilder.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/666?osCsid=72671ba6f65da11461ff22b01f8529ba

http://www.amazon.com/E-I-DuPont-Tyvek-Kitemaking-Material/dp/B001TO4QVA/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1307644596&sr=8-4

EDIT: I realize these aren't within your price range. But just because you bought a full roll for prototyping purposes does not mean we need to subsidize that full cost. You could have gotten by using yard purchases and doing market research before trying to make a quick buck off the BPL community.

[J. X.]

who says I paid for it???

Even the Apostle Paul was a tent maker by trade….

[J. X.]

paper clips???

NO!

that would be as ghetto as it gets….I use materials that are tested to endure stress….

No Holes in the polyester….

although along the inseem of the Tyvec there will perforations to allow moisture to escape…

I am playing around with the idea of making the walls have less pitch… maybe a 16-18/12

[Jason Acker]

If you are really serious about selling anything you need to just stop posting on here until you have a well made and tested product. Seeking input is one thing but offering your "tent" for sale is another. People on this site know a lot about gear so your not going to fool anyone with "tested to endure stress" talk. Detailed pictures and data will be needed to get the support you will need.

Also there is a reason nobody makes a non emergency tent made of space blanket.

[Colin Krusor]

"Not standard Tyvek house wrap or space blankets…"

Really? You say in the video that it IS space blankets. And it clearly is. I can see the fold lines from the standard wallet-sized space blanket package all over the prototype.

Do as others have suggested and rethink your product and your marketing approach. There are thinking people on these forums.

[J. X.]

As for sourcing Tyvek…this site

http://www.kitebuilder.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/666?osCsid=72671ba6f65da11461ff22b01f8529ba

$11.25 for 9ft x 60" + $5 to ship US mail…total $16.25….again not cheap…and this is also for Tyvek housewrap which is NOT what I am using….

[J. X.]

the prototype is space blanket, the finsished product is not off the shelf standard space blanket like you'd buy at the store…

[Jason Acker]

So you have made one untested prototype and no production products, you can't tell us what kind of winds your tent will withstand, its never seen rain, and you expect people to buy your product with a "no returns" policy?

What is different between the space station technology you will be using and an off the shelf space blanket?

Can you honestly say that you think this thing will do well in moderate rain and wind?

[J. X.]

the "space blanket" material in the production model will have greater tensile stength and will resist higher wind shear…

the Tyvek also is not commercial Homedepot Tyvek…it's thinner and weighs less but is just as strong…

and the adhesion of the seams is already explained…

As for material case studies, I base on factory specs and tests…if they say it will hold then it's good enough for me….I have over 20 years of building and design experience so I trust my intuition…

I am not going to give away all the materials…it's that simple…if I was charging $229.00 then yes I would make the specs a little more available…but since it's a cheap tent for me to make you'll just have to guess what goes into into it therefore my trade secret will remain just that… a secret…

so back to my original question of whether there is any interest in an 8.5oz tent, I think I have the answer….

[Diplomatic Mike]

I had a dog called Sam.
My first pair of shoes were blue.
:)
Sorry, i'll take 2.

[josh wagner]

why is everyone hating on this guy? immediate piling on is pretty bad form…

[Devin Montgomery]

Jonathan – welcome to the world of MYOG! It's a long but potentially rewarding pursuit. I really recommend waiting for the next stormy night and taking this tent out in the back yard and sleeping in it. If that goes well, find the next stormy weekend and take it on a hike. If that goes well, repeat a few times and tweak along the way. If, by the end of the whole process it is something that you'd continue using over all other available options… that's when you know you have something with potential.

Remember that weight isn't everything. There was one time where I had worked out a gear list with a skin-out weight of 2.5 lbs. So I tried it out one weekend, and it sucked. So I went back to bringing all the heavy stuff. Luxuries like a sleeping bag. :)

[J. X.]

note to self:

It's going on the PCT in less than 192 hrs from now…

[drowning in spam]

Where at?

[J. X.]

east of Portland OR

[Dustin Short]

>>why is everyone hating on this guy? immediate piling on is pretty bad form…

A few things. With a name like TrollGoal, one is setting themselves up to be looked upon poorly. Not sure how familiar you are with the history of internet forums, but trolls aren't viewed favorably. Could just be an unfortunate naming, but it's hard to eliminate prejudice with a very negative name (even the least judgmental will take a second if they meet someone named Stalin).

Second if you look at the thread it's not until page two that things start turning south. People were at first interested in the product. But with minimal specs, promise of an 8.5oz TENT and waiting…it was hype and then a switch and bait.

The product is NOT a tent, but a tube shelter. The product does NOT weigh 8.5oz but rather 10.1oz. Most of the criticism was constructive or looking for clarification. Also the price point, given the information we have is high for such a product.

At this point TrollGoal's language started the negativity "and I am going to either give you the benefit of the doubt here or completely call your bluff" and the such. He got defensive and linked to a youtube video with lyrics of "talk is only talk."

TrollGoal (Mission Accomplished!) then proceeded to make claims of how his material will be different from what is available without backing up his claims. A move that allows him to be referred back to his very own youtube link.

And there it devolved.

As a backdrop to all this, BPL has several very talented MYOG members. These individuals meticulously design, test, redesign, and USE their creations. If they end up with a design (and the desire) that is very polished, some will go into production and join the cottage industry. The Backcountry Boiler has been a huge success recently (and there's a whole host of others). These individuals have taken the time and effort to truly create high quality products for the community, driven out of their own passion.

The OP however came in with an attitude of hey look at what I cooked up in a few minutes, you want to buy it? He implies the higher cost of his product is partly due to the Tyvek cost. Then soon after posts "who says I paid for it???" ("liberated" from a construction site possibly?) He offers no return policy and his reasoning shows that he has little connection with the community (not market) that he's trying to profit from. His profile history shows this thread is the only posting he's ever done on BPL.

There are a few other niggling matters as well, but at this point I think it's apparent why he wasn't accepted with open arms and gifts of bunnies and rainbows.

So what should we take from all this? That Troll Hunter looks amazing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy2nAOdBUlw

[J. X.]

insite….

outstanding!!!

[Bryce]

"insight"

[Author]

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