Tents vs. Wind Machine

[Paul Hatfield]

Tents vs. Wind Machine
http://www.youtube.com/user/FliegfixOutdoor#g/c/5FE786DF76BF468A

[Here There]

I want to play!

[drowning in spam]

One of those videos showed how much difficulty I can have trying to set up my Black Diamond Lighthouse, but also how well it can hold up once it's set up. It also makes me want to add mid panel guy outs that much more.

[David Ure]

Man those domes looked stable once set up! The tunnels, not so much…..

[Jason Elsworth]

Come on BPL get a wind machine!! That would be a great article.

I once wrote to Terra Nova to tell them that my Voyager had been bent in a Wellington wind (kept standing though). They were most surprised, as they said it had been tested in a wind tunnel to some pretty extreme wind speeds. They sent me a new pole free of charge.

I suspect that it is sometimes freak gusts from odd directions that really test tents, but a wind machine test of some popular UL shelters would be very interesting.

[Roger Caffin]

Hysterical!
A superb demonstration of how NOT to pitch a tent in bad weather, and what sort of tents to NOT use in bad weather. Some of the antics were classic.
* Shaking out the tent in mid-air with the wind machine running – what a way to lose the tent at once!
* Lying inside the tent trying to replace a windward-end stake which had pulled out!
* Crawling across the tent almost kneeling on poles to get to the other side.
Sorry, but that guy failed Camping 101.

And in response to one comment, NONE of those tents were tunnels. NONE of them bore even a faint resemblance to a tunnel. Mostly they were pop-up domes, with all their attendant problems. Problems which are so very visible to anyone. Would you want to spend the night in one of those with that sort of wind blowing? Not me, thank you. The wind wasn't even all that strong, either.

What does puzzle me is that they did not demo any good tunnels. They obviously had access to Vaude and Hilleberg, and both companies do have respectable tunnels, but they chose to demo pop-ups instead. Weird.

In answer to the obvious challenges: Yes, I have pitched tunnel tents much faster than demoed, in stronger winds than the 60-80 kph they mention (100+ kph), with complete security and zero risk. And slept very well inside them as well. But that was with REAL tunnels, not cheap pop-ups.

And yes, we do have a series of technical articles coming on REAL tunnel tents this year. I have a stack of tunnel tents from around the world here right now for the series. Expect a really thorough discussion ;-)

Cheers

[Bob Gross]

"I have a stack of tunnel tents from around the world here right now for the series."

For comparison, it would be neat to use one of the old Early Winters Omnipotents from about thirty years ago. Now, that was a serious tunnel tent.

–B.G.–

[drowning in spam]

Roger, my guess is that some of them where trying to use those tents in the worst possible configuration when it was relatively safe to do to so. I can't read that language though, so I'm making a big assumption. Are you going to take anemometer readings and a picture at those speeds for the article, maybe even video? That sure would make the article that much more intriguing. Too bad I won't get to read it before testing my new tunnel for the next three months.

[David Ure]

@Roger – here is another video with tunnels:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI-jTcjoRO8

Looks like side guys weren't used.

What you need to test for BPL is BOTH tunnels and Domes in a similar environment. There is simply no universal agreement on what design is better in the wind.

[Anonymous]

This thread makes me want to buy an anemometer and carry it with me on trips. :”,AndyF”

[. .]

@Andy – I have a couple, thus you are welcome to borrow one if you like. PM me.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi david

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI-jTcjoRO8

Yep, I had that one already, but thanks anyhow.

An absolutely brilliant demonstration of what happens when you use stakes which are not strong enough! A couple of long tubular stakes at the windward end … essential!

If anyopne comes across any more 'good' videos of tent pitching (you know what I mean!), let me know please!

Cheers

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Bob, and all

> it would be neat to use one of the old Early Winters Omnipotents from about thirty years ago.

Anyone got one which could be borrowed?

cheers

[Bob Gross]

That would be very doubtful. The old Early Winters company sold its name rights to a new Early Winters company, and then we haven't heard of either one for the last 15 years or so.

I can still remember spending one windy night sleeping in the Omnipotent on Mount Shasta in 1978. It felt like a tomb. After these many years, I would expect that the fabrics have deteriorated. However, it would make a good structural study piece.

–B.G.–

[drowning in spam]

Someone on here bought one not too long ago. I doubt she'd want to subject it to testing unless she was compensated in case of damage or loss. While that would be interesting, I don't think it's a big deal because of how rare it is now.

Now if you guys want feedback about a giant tent like a Sierra Designs Wu Hu 4, I should have some soon…although I may not be accessing the internet for weeks or months…

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Bob

> It felt like a tomb. After these many years, I would expect that the fabrics have
> deteriorated. However, it would make a good structural study piece.

The deterioration is likely. The first tent I made suddenly disintegrated one day: the UV had destroyed the yellwo fabric. Funny – the blue fabric was still fine. The dyes, I think.

Tomb-like: that would be due to the tunnel being rather small? Yes, known problem for most tent designers. These days we make tunnels slightly higher so you can sit up in one.

The Omnipotent design is OK, but we have improved the design since then. One big change has been the introduction of the tapered end bell. This has three benefits:
1) Better wind deflection
2) More end space for gear
3) Far greater structural integrity – arguably the most important factor.

The greater stuctural integrity comes from the way the tapered end bell adds huge reinforcing to the shape of the end pole. The taper makes it extremely hard for the pole to deflect the way you see happening on a dome.

Cheers

[Bob Gross]

"Tomb-like: that would be due to the tunnel being rather small?"

No, I meant that it felt windproof and protected as I imagine a tomb would feel. Sort of like a good place to be during a thermonuclear event.

I was on a high expedition one time, and most of the tent teams had secure tents. One tent team, however, had some Garuda thing that was highly collapsible. When the wind blew hard, from the outside we could count the number of people inside the tent. That can't be good.

–B.G.–

[Rick Dreher]

Once upon a time…I investigated the O-tent at EW's original shop and have to say, it was quite the rig compared to competing mountaineering tents at the time. I loved how it suspended the inner tent from the fly with (IIRC) continuous fabric strips. I suppose the blunt ends would certainly get buffeted in high winds but adding the optional vestibule might tame the windward side. I never spend a night in one but I can believe it would be a nice mountain refuge in truly vile conditions.

A modern take on the Omnipotent using contemporary fabrics and poles could be really something–the EW poles were high-quality fiberglass fishing rod blanks and quite flexy.

Me, I opted for their Goretex Winterlite since I wasn't doing true mountaineering. Because I'm a packrat I still have it. A version rendered using eVent and CF poles might be interesting, if enormously expensive. I never encountered conditions the Winterlite couldn't shrug off.

REI once tested all their tents' wind performance on a platform atop a car. I have no idea whether they've perhaps bought a surplus wind tunnel from Boeing or somesuch since then.

Cheers,

Rick

[Dan M]

I have an Omnipotent that is in amazing condition for its age. I have never used it. Got it at an estate sale recently. Doesn’t appear to have been used much.

[Tipi Walter]

Good stuff.  The biggest problem I have with my tunnel tent in a tough wind is keeping the propeg stakes in the ground, ergo the use of rocks on the pegs.

This was a tough windstorm on the North Fork Citico trail with the Keron tent.

Another time I was using a Hilleberg Nammatj tent and like an idiot brought shepherd crook stakes which spun in an all-night wind and released the guyouts.  Ended up having a long night with the tent slapping me on the head and shoulders—also used rocks on the pegs.  After this storm I now carry the old Hilleberg propeg nail-stakes.  Btw, when they sold me this tent it came with 9mm poles, and this storm bent one of the poles.  1800 kerlon tents were supposed to come with 10mm poles—makes a big difference.

[Tipi Walter]

https://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Trip-Videos/All-Trip-Videos/i-tx6N9Nj

Don’t know if this link will work but it shows Mt Hardwear Light Wedge tent with a Hilleberg Staika at 5,000 feet on Whiggs Meadow in TN during a moderate windstorm.

And I add this just to see a tunnel in action in sort of windy conditions but not bad.

[Tipi Walter]

I watched the wind machine vids and have to say in my experience the worst winds don’t just come from one direction as in these tests but swirls like a howling banshee from all sorts of slapping directions.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Tipi

In the snow I carry largish Ti angles for most of the guy lines, but for the ends (corners) I carry deadman anchors. They do NOT move. All MYOG of course :-)
https://backpackinglight.com/make_your_own_gear_titanium_snow_stakes/
https://backpackinglight.com/myog_ti_snow_stakes_part_2/

The important thing is that I put a LOT of tension lengthwise on the tent, both via the corners and via the end guy lines. I noticed in the video that your tent fabric was flapping a bit: I try very hard to prevent that from happening with my tunnels. Tension, tension and NO bungee cord at the windward end. Works for me.

The worst night we have had (apart from “When Things Go Wrong”) was when we camped behind a very large boulder one windy night. BIG mistake – the vortices peeling off the boulder came in about 7 different directions, including going UPwind towards the rock! Only a summer tent that time too. Um … well … there have been a few others too … :-)

Cheers

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