Neoprene Hoody

I wear neoprene when kayaking on cold water.

I would never consider wearing a neoprene jacket hiking.
#1 It's heavy
#2 It doesn't breath. You will be soaked from perspiration under it.

Better to wear hydrophobic base layer with a breathable shell or poncho/cape.

it seems that If you sweat a lot, you will be soacked and stay soacked. As the previous poster state it, i don't think neoprene is breathable and during long hikes it may start to stink. I would say, invest in some rain gears with armpit zippers and quick drying shirts – Maybe wool?

Let me know how this works out for you.

My upper body sweats quite a bit even in mild weather but I often get around that with very careful layering/venting, or by simply bringing an extra shirt to change into when I get to camp. If you're sweating badly enough to really "soak" your clothing, perhaps you could consider a vapor barrier worn under your base layer: if you know yourself well enough that you're going to get sweat-soaked anyway, a barrier would at least keep your clothing dry…? I'm not sure how this would work in body temp regulation – would it make your sweating worse, etc?
Of course, either way, this doesn't address your rain coat inquiry.

Steven,

Weight-I agree with you on the heavy comments. Neoprene isn't light. That's why I have been experimenting with some of the lighter closed cell foams. I'll just have to wait and see how much warmth I get with this thin neoprene hoody per ounce of weight. My break-even weight for the neoprene jacket would be about 1.5 lbs. That's about the weight of an insulating jacket plus raincoat with my current gear. As I write this I'm wearing a 1 lb 12 ounce float coat made of 1/2" thick ensolite. I've stripped off a bunch of stuff to get down to this weight but would like to go lighter.

Breathing-What you say here applies to 99.9% of hikers. However, my experience and internal weather system seems to be different than most. When I wear a base layer and breathable shell I'm still soaking wet from head to foot and I get cold even in 50 degree F weather. Here's a typical example. My wife and I hiked through Scotland for ten days in temps in the 50s and 60s. I wore a poly pro base layer, fiberfill jacket, stocking cap and wpb raincoat and/or poncho. I was wet from sweat almost constantly while hiking. Wearing less clothing doesn't help. Sweat primarily comes from exertion for me, not overdressing. Didn't even want to pause for lunch because I would get so chilled, particularly if there was a breeze. I'm pretty sure that closed cell foam garments of some sort are the right choice for me if I can find something that meets my warmth and weight goals. I doubt that they would work for most people. Maybe we need a subset of the Pacific Northwest thread for heavy sweaters only?

Cheers*,

Daryl

*I'm copying this goodbye from Roger and others. I like the sound of it.

Aaron,

I've experimented with the internal vapor barrier. It's a challenge to make it work however. To work for me it must be loose fitting, durable, absolutely waterproof and easily vented(e.g. a front zip). Plus the thin vapor barrier tends to cling to me uncomfortably. It also diverts the sweat downward and wets out the lower portion of my body even faster than without one. I need a base layer under it, an insulating layer over it and, if it rains I need a raincoat. I haven't found a way to do this in any really lightweight and convenient way.

With the foam jacket concept I'm hoping for a lightweight vapor barrier, insulating layer and rain jacket all built into one. Plus I can use the jacket as part of my foam sleeping pad system.

I too change into dry clothing upon reaching camp. It is the hiking portion of the trip that I'm hoping to improve upon.

Daryl

Noel,

Thanks for the comments. I feel a little like I'm playing ping pong with comments and responses. Kind of fun and also forces me to rethink my experiences and tentative conclusions.

Yes, I get soaked and stay soaked until I change clothes from head to foot. That's the given for me, regardless of what I wear while backpacking.

Yes, neoprene is not breathable. That is generally not a good thing. But I'm soaking wet anyway so it doesn't matter so much in my equation. I put out almost an ounce of sweat per minute while backpacking vigorously. I can't get any wetter. It drips from me like a soaker hose.

Yes, I may start to stink but that's nothing new. Everything I wear stinks whenever I hike.

Armpit zips don't help reduce sweat if that's how you were thinking they might help. Sweat happens. I sweat even when I'm cold. For cooling down I find the front zip adequate.

Everything I wear is quick drying. It is the primary criteria for my clothing selection. I even tested all my gear by wetting it to see how much water it would absorb and then timing how long it took to dry.

Wool? Dries slowly and I smell like a wet dog by the end of day 1. It might be the worst smelling fabric I've tried except for my shoes and socks which seem to have a chemistry of their own.

Cheers,

Daryl

If there's any wind, you'll be freezing cold. Neoprene works well for underwater, where there's no evaporative cooling. However, above water, it doesn't work well at all without some sort of wind protection (your raincoat). Even then, neoprene retains a LOT of water, so 1.5lbs will be closer to 4-5lbs, when saturated.

When I'm canyoneering, as soon as we'll be out of the water for any length of time (hiking to the next pothole/drop/slot), the upper part of my wetsuit immediately comes off so that I can get warm. Even in the presence of 70 degree temperatures, a wet neoprene layer is quite chilly when out of the water, due to evaporative cooling. Due to it's retainment of water, you're essentially wearing a refridgerator.

A 100W fleece or better yet, a Power Stretch hoodie, would give more loft and breath. As advertised, the neoprene might be okay waiting for a race to start and more fashion than function.

Hi Daryl

> When I wear a base layer and breathable shell I'm still soaking wet from head to foot and
> I get cold even in 50 degree F weather.
> I wore a poly pro base layer, fiberfill jacket, stocking cap and wpb raincoat and/or poncho.
> I was wet from sweat almost constantly while hiking. Wearing less clothing doesn't help.
> Sweat primarily comes from exertion for me, not overdressing.

I am not surprised. You are WAY, WAY over-dressed for those conditions. Above 35 F I would be wearing a Taslan shirt and Taslan trousers, and that is ALL. (OK, underpants too.)

Adding a closed cell foam layer would be even worse, with heat stroke or dehydration being a serious risk.

I might add a very light windshirt if the wind is strong and the temperature near or below freezing. Even at freezing I would seldom use a light base layer for anything after the first 15 min walking.

Cheers

Daryl, I'm curious what you wear in 50ºF weather in town. Surely not all the clothes you mentioned above. For me it's usually a t-shirt, a light fleece, and perhaps a windbreaker. When you're hiking you'd usually put out a lot more heat, no?

Brian, Roger and Dale,

I'll have to wait and see about your comments that are specific to this neoprene hoodie. I have no experience with it so I'm going on the company's claims and extrapolating from my experience/experimenting with closed cell foam garments. I certainly hope that it doesn't absorb water. That would be a bummer and in stark contract to my experiments with closed cell foam. I'll come back and address your neoprene comments after I have some experience with the new hoodie.

I can address some of your comments specific to things that I have tried, however.

Wearing only a Taslan shirt and trousers at 35 degrees F would be risking hypothermia for me. If I'm engaged in a strenuous activity the sweat still comes, even if I'm cold, and the evaporative cooling is very powerful. Add wind and it is even worse. When I'm sweating heavily at the gym, for example, and someone turns on a fan in the 60+degree F gym I am cold and my muscles can't loosen up. I (and a few others in the gym) will often add a jacket under those conditions.

100W fleece or power stretch hoodie-It will work for awhile but once saturated with sweat I'll be cold from evaporation. I need an insulating layer that doesn't lose its insulating value when wet. Closed cell foam is the only thing I have found so far that is sufficently warm (for me) when wet.

Closed cell foam has worked well for me in the past. I've been on 4 day trips where I've worn a float coat almost continuously during the day in wet and dry weather with temps in the 40-50 degree F range. It has kept me warm and caused no dehydration. I've been working in the yard and garden all day today wearing a 1/2 inch closed cell foam float coat with temps in the 50-60 degree F range. I've been warm and, when moving, wet. It has also rained some. No problem. I control the temps by opening and closing the front of the coat.

More fashion than function? Well a little fashion would be good. My wife doesn't like the way I look when I'm wearing some of my myog items.

Thanks for the feedback. These are all good comments, even if they don't match up too well with my personal experience. I may solve this problem yet. That's why I decided to visit this planet.

merino wool clothing.

Gets rid of that wet chill after stopping moving. works when its wet, still dries reasonably well.

at 32 degrees all I have on is a 200 merino long sleeve hiking and maybe a wind shirt if its windy or snowing.

"Daryl, I'm curious what you wear in 50ºF weather in town. Surely not all the clothes you mentioned above. For me it's usually a t-shirt, a light fleece, and perhaps a windbreaker. When you're hiking you'd usually put out a lot more heat, no?"

Miguel,

I wear about the same thing as you in town if I'm not very active (going to a restaurant or movie, etc.).

When I'm working strenuously for longer periods, however, (e.g.gardening, digging in the yard, working on the house, etc.) I will be addressing this "get sweaty and cold" challenge and dress accordingly. I'm often wearing a closed cell foam jacket while working in our shared P-Patch garden in Seattle while the person next to me is wearing a T Shirt. I generate a lot of heat when hiking or doing other strenuous work but the wet garments and the evaporative cooling of the wet garments is powerful enough to take that heat away faster than I can produce it.

Daryl

Not sure if this would work for you, and it’s exceptionally expensive with all the venting options, but it’s a great piece of kit. I use it in very cold weather.

VaprThrm shirt

Robert,

I have tried wool but not merino wool so I can't comment on how the merino type would work.

I abandoned other wool, however, a couple decades ago because it didn't work for me. Still got wet and cold and the wool got heavy with water absorbtion then took a long time to dry. I also did not like the feel of wool and I smelled like a wet dog when it was wet. I have heard that merino is more comfortble, however.

Daryl

Neoprene doesn't absorb a lot of water, but teh surface is a little porous and doesn't breath out like wool or fleece will. So it does get a little heavier and takes a long time to dry.

And again 2mm is very little insulation compared to a fleece with windshirt.

Merino wool is not smelly and itchy like common sheep wool. In fact, people wear it as base layers to help reduce smell.

Fleece, especially grid and other light fleece will dry quicker and be drier than merino wool.

Douglas,

Thanks for the vapr thrm suggestion.

It would take a leap of faith for me to try out this garment and it is rather expensive. Can't really figure out how it could do what it says it can do (for me) and I've been let down on a few other items when I bought into the claims that were made.

I'm hot on the trail of a closed cell solution to my problem so, for now, I'll put the vapr thrm on the back burner. Glad that it works for you but more and more I'm seeing that my problem is unique in the annuls of human existence.

Daryl

I once read about a New Zealand tramper using a neoprene jacket for cold wet conditions.

Have you seen this? http://www.jimsway.com/atjs1.html

Finally are you sure your physiology isn't due to some kind of medical condition? No offence meant.

Jason,

The tramper reference encourages me to continue down this path toward a neoprene hoody (combined with the fact that I already ordered it).

I have followed up on the the link you posted. It was included in a previous discussion on this topic. I even sent an e-mail to the galaxie assoicated with the link to see if there was life out there. It apparently fell into a black hole because I never got a response.

I'm not offended by your suggestion that a medical condition might be involved here. I'm not offended easily so don't sweat it. (Pun) It sure sounds like I'm different than most people on this sweat thing. I'll keep your question in mind but generally I'm in perfect health (for my age) and my Dr. seems impressed by all the standard tests that she has me take.

Daryl

from my reading you can only absorb effectively about 20-25 oz of water during exercies in a given hour. If you are sweating out 60 oz of water in that hour, very soon you will be seriously dehydrated. Any more than 3% total weight loss is considered detrimental to your performance.

I have to agree its too much clothing. I was hiking this weekend if 40+ degrees in a short sleeve wicking shirt and a houdini and I still got sweaty, I cant imagine being soaked like you describe.

Hey Daryl,

So even if the experiment doesn't work out, the neo hoody will be nice for water activities. I know my neo jacket comes used a lot for swimming and boating activities.

Mark,

Dehydration is a concern when I hike so I drink plenty of water, at least a gallon a day.

Losing nearly an ounce of sweat per minute is based upon running as fast as I can for about 5 miles. Most of my hikes have strenuous portions but that intensity isn't maintained throughout the hike.

When I was backpacking in my 20s I think I was chronically dehydrated. Took me awhile to figure out how much I need to drink to stay hydrated.

For comparison, a buddy of mine would lose 5 pounds during our highschool basketball games. Most of that would be sweat so, without drinking, he could be down 2+ quarts by the end of the game.

Daryl

Steven,

I googled neo jacket and came up with some made of neoprene and not. What's yours made of and do you recall where you bought it?

If my neo hoody doesn't work out I can cut it into little cozies to keep my faucets from freezing.

Daryl

Hey Daryl,

Mine is a few years old, it is the predecessor of:
NRS Wetsuit Jacket Link