I am ready for your critique

[John Julyan-Gudgeon]

So, I have just joined here and am looking at ways to drop my pack weight into the 16 lb range. Others have suggested I post a weighed pack list and see what others have to say. With that, I present my current list. Note, the gear itself is a work in progress. Further, I hike in an environmentally diverse environ, and sometimes I like to bring a heavier, more convenient/or fun version for many items (case in point, I probably won't swap a water filter for purifier tabs as I have a tendency to be fairly sensitive to many of the chemicals). Here it is:

Hiking environ: wind blows hard, can rain hard in minutes notice, can drop below freezing and turn to snow and freeze all the rain over night, but mosquitos will still eat you alive.

BackPack:
Current: Osprey Kestrel 58: 1.88kg, 4.136lb
Soon: once I get an idea on design, yds Cuben to order, then hopefully pack = <1 lb

Sleeping Bag:
McKinnley, good to -4C or 25 F, 770g

Sleeping Pad:
Thermarest Z-lite short: 287g

Shelter:
Current: Tarptent Rainbow, including pole, tyvek groundsheet: 1.176kg,
Soon: Shelter (tarp design with mesh and attachable floor, Cuben where possible, 2 people?): 500g

Pegs: 12 @ 10 gram each = 120g
Ropes: Now: 300g, soon: don’t know yet, need to adjust this for shelter, add 70 ft for camp craft (food hanging, clothes line, etc) 50g?

Clothes: 1735 g (items below)
Arc’teryx shirt 115g
Marino Wool Undershirt 223g
Long Johns 120g
Shorts 126g
Cheapo Rain Pants (considering changing/swapping to [cuben?] chaps): 60-90g
Patagonia Down Vest: 288g
2 underwear: 170g
2 oversocks: 95g
2 undersocks: 239g
OR Helium RainJacket: 194g

Tools:
Gerber Firecracker Light: 75g
Marmut Headlamp: 48g
Leatherman Juice 2: 123g
Compass: 48g
Trowel: 57g (thinking of making a lighter one)
Maps: don’t know yet
Whistle: 13gCC

WaterBladders X2 (2L platypus): 70g
Water Hose (attach to each bladder): 59g
Water Bottle: 111g
Water Pump: 209g
Water Bucket (Cuben, soon to build): 6g
Water Bottle (aids in pumping/holds water): 111g

Stove: Brunten Crux: 90g
Soloist CookSet: 285g
Fuel Canister: 220g
(Once I find a reliable source of denatured/pure ethanol in my region, then I might consider going to a penny stove/3-4cup homemade pot solution)
Cup: 69g
Spork: 12g

Fire:
Matchbox: 6g
Torch Lighter: 47g

Personal/Gear Maintenance:
ToiletPaper: 52g
Shower Kit: 300g (list broken down elsewhere)
Repair Kit: 271g (list broken down elsewhere)
First Aid Kit: 294g (list broken down elsewhere)
Sunscreen: 50g
BugSpray: 50g

Entertainment/Memories:
Batteries/4 AA: 96g
Palm Pilot (its my book): 155g
Ipod+ headphones: 64g
Camera+Aux Bats: 146g
Electronics Case: 16g
Lens Cloth: 4g

Things I might add:
1) An easy to pack day-pack: 30g (for short excursions from pre-established camp…but maybe just design top of mainpack to accommodate this task)
2) Minishelter Cuben Tarp: 60g (sun shield, could be a blanket/bivy-style cover if sleepingbag cold etc…but may just consider groundsheet to be this)

Total: 15.27 lbs/ 6.93kg/ 6928 grams (actually its a bit heavier, I noticed some errors just before posting this)
This does not include Food or Water, nor what I am directly

[John Julyan-Gudgeon]

So there it is, my first posted gear list.

Give me your feedback and I will greatly appreciate it.

Of course, I am itching at getting started on my various Cuben Fiber stuff sacks and shelter. Supposing I was making a simple A-frame tarp, cat-cut, anticipating 2 6'3" tall people under it with reasonable space for gear and tossing/turning in sleep, able to pitch it low to seal out driving rain, what basic dimensions do you think I should be considering? For a ground sheet under this, what do you think should be the dimensions?

I ask as I would like to order up some Cuben Fiber material (from Zpacks?) and want to have a rough idea how much to get….and I guess I better start working on some blue-prints as well.

Cheers, and thanks to all whom reply.

John

[Walter Carrington]

John, welcome to BPL. It sounds like you're on the right track with plans for a cuben pack and shelter.

A couple of things I'd say to eliminate:
"Tools:"
"Gerber Firecracker Light: 75g" you have a headlamp, so drop this.
"Leatherman Juice 2: 123g"

"Personal/Gear Maintenance:"
"Shower Kit: 300g" Heavy, use sponge bath with a small piece of shamwow.
"Repair Kit: 271g" Heavy, how much of this do you really need??
"First Aid Kit: 294g" Heavy, how much of this do you need and do you have the training to use it?

"Soloist CookSet: 285g" You probably don't need the whole thing, one pot with alum foil lid and maybe a cup.

"2 undersocks: 239g" Is this weight correct? Seems heavy.

Your water system is heavy. Can you reduce weight with a MYOG gravity filter or a steripen? Two 111g water bottles and 2x2L platypus, if you're in the desert you may need this capacity, but elsewhere it's a lot.

[David Drake]

Hi John,
Some quick thoughts, based on what has worked for me. (For reference, my current BW is between 9.5-11#, depending on big three choices, and I hike 3 seasons, mostly Cascades and Seven Devils [Idaho]).

There's a fair bit of redundancy here, which can easily be cut.
>Rule of thumb is: don't take more clothes than you can wear all at once, including packed and worn (with one extra pair of socks, and MAYBE one extra pair of underwear).
>Why do you have two light sources (both of which are heavy)?
>Why so much water storage? If you take one 2 liter Platy and one water bottle (use a 1 liter Gatorade bottle) you'll save more than a quarter pound (145g).
>If you replace your cookset and cup with a Ti mug you can boil water in (like Snow Peak 600 ~80g), you'll save more than half a pound.
>I count weight of fuel as consumable, not base weight. I count weight of fuel container (alky bottle or empty canister) in base. Helps with comparison.
>Most folks here would consider your Leatherman overkill. You can get about the same functionality for half the weight, but could also safely do without most of those functions.
>Not sure what's in your "shower kit", your FAK or your repair kit. These are all very heavy! My FAK and repair kit combined weigh 1.7 oz (~48g). My hygiene kit (t/brush, t/paste, soap or sanitizer) weighs 1.2 oz (~34g).

Hope this helps. I've been cutting weight for a couple years now, but am hardly a paragon of UL virtue, let alone SUL. For real inspiration, take a look at Andrew Skurka's site, and the lists he used on the Alaska-Yukon trek.

[John Julyan-Gudgeon]

Ooops. I only have one water bottle, the other was in the list by mistake.

That water bottle had thee main purposes: 1) store 1 litre of water, 2) act as an integral part of the water purification system as it screws directly to the water filter, 3) is opaque enough that it turns into a great light diffuser lantern when the flashlight is dropped into it. But, I was thinking about the whole water system being too heavy. So I experimented and found that my pump (MSR Hyperflow) wedges directly into the mouth of a platypus 2L bottle, though not by design. Thus, the waterbottle is eliminated all together. A filled Platypus waterbag works almost as good as a bottle lantern.

I am kind of bogged down by the first aid kit, by my training, by my companions expectations, and by my experience with what can and does go wrong. I am a physician, and just released from the Canadian Forces where I was also a physician. My philosophy of preparedness really weighs me down here. The FAK is broken into 3 paradigms: 1) stabilize the "reasonable to occur" conditions that immediately threaten to end life or limb, 2) temporize the "reasonable to occur" conditions that threaten to end the mission, 3) alleviate the "reasonable to occur" symptoms that threaten to end the fun. But, every couple of weeks, I open up the first aid kit and try to lighten it up. If you can believe it, I was once expected to carry two backpacks. One with my personal gear, and one with approximately 30-40 lbs of medical equipment/supplies. Its a struggle, but I am working on getting this lighter.

I have lost lots of weight recently, so I am hoping this might help me reduce my shower kit, but I have to test it first. There is 20 grams of vasoline (eczema, not other stuff that your imagination is dreaming up :) ), 50 grams of baby powder (the crotch rot that heavy guys who walk many miles in moist conditions get (maybe that will be a thing of my heavier past). I can probably also get rid of the deodorant stick (42g modified ministick) for the trips where the wife isn't present). Maybe get rid of chapstick as well (15g):
Towel 77g, facecloth 6g, soap/mirror 33g, toothbrush 20g, toothpaste 30g, tacrolimus (outright temporary cure for eczema around my eyes) 3g, bag 7g: that gets me to 176g.

The repair kit….I will have to itemize that and get all your opinion on that. This kit has saved my bacon many times, usually with the items in it I thought I needed the least: hiking pole repair sleeve salvaged into kit from previous broken hiking pole (that helped me repair a second broken stick that helped me offload an injured knee and properly set up my shelter), extra hiking pole cage that was pulled off and thrown down a canyon by a agave plant in the grand canyon, rebuilding a boot nearly completely eaten by a porcupine that acrobated into my tent vestibule while I slept one night (Rockies). I may need some more balanced vision on this, as mine is getting clouded by paranoia.

Those socks are also a consideration for the chopping block. They are the only remnant of my old military kit I have left. And, they are heavy. I am in the market for some lighter, dual layer system of socks (really helps with the blisters). Any suggestions?

[John Julyan-Gudgeon]

And yep, what I was needing was a kick in the butt regarding those two lights. I knew someone was going to pick up on that. Sometimes you just need to get nudged. I have to decide which is more versatile. Sometimes I want my light on my head, sometimes I want it nice and cylindrical in my hand (and, once again, keep your imaginations at bay).

I will probably drop the gerber.

[John Julyan-Gudgeon]

Ooops, another minor error: undersocks weight was for oversocks (the standard pattern olive green wool military socks), oversocks weight was for the undersocks (black, thin, almost women's black nylons style socks). Nonetheless, these seem heavier than should be acceptable.

[Ken Thompson]

Why not take some time to look through the ear lists that are posted here.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/gearchecklists.html

Also read this concerning first aid and emergency gear

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/00022

[Mike Clelland]

BackPack:
Current: Osprey Kestrel 58: 1.88kg, 4.136lb – TOO HEAVY!
Soon: once I get an idea on design, yds Cuben to order, then hopefully pack = <1 lb

Shelter:
Current: Tarptent Rainbow, including pole — TOO HEAVY

tyvek groundsheet: 1.176kg – NIX and create a HOME-MADE bivy sack instead!

Soon: Shelter (tarp design with mesh and attachable floor, Cuben where possible, 2 people?): 500g — THis should be easy to make, GOOD!

–

Clothes: 1735 g (items below) Are these CARRIED or WORN???

Cheapo Rain Pants – NIX and make a rain SKIRT (3 oz max)
2 underwear: 170g – NIX, the lone pair you wear is the ONLY pair you'll need
2 over-socks: 95g / 2 under-socks: 239g – Too many socks

Gerber Firecracker Light: 75g
Marmut Headlamp: 48g

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One headlamp is fine, take the lightest option (ALWAYS!)

Leatherman Juice 2: 123g – NIX, too heavy, carry a single edge razor-blade, nothing more.

Trowel: 57g (thinking of making a lighter one) – NIX and dig with a stick or rock

–

I am confused, you have a LOT of water vessels. Are you hiking in the Mojave in July? Why so much???

Water Hose (attach to each bladder): 59g

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NIX all hoses, no NEED (this is a want)

Water Pump: 209g

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NIX and use aquamira drops. When used sparingly, there should be NO chemical issue (taste or reaction)
Water Bucket (Cuben, soon to build): 6g

---

NIX
Water Bottle (aids in pumping/holds water): 111g

---

NIX

–

Stove: Brunten Crux: 90g

---

NIX and replace with an alcohol stove, lighter and simpler

(Once I find a reliable source of denatured/pure ethanol in my region, then I might consider going to a penny stove/3-4cup homemade pot solution)

---

Denatured Alcohol is easy to find in any hardware store.

Torch Lighter: 47g

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NIX and replace with a min-bic (0.4 oz)

ToiletPaper: 52g

---

NIX, no need. Easily left behind

Shower Kit: 300g (list broken down elsewhere)

---

NIX

Entertainment/Memories:
Batteries/4 AA: 96g

---

NIX
Palm Pilot (its my book): 155g

---

NIX
Ipod+ headphones: 64g

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NIX

–

Things I might add:
1) An easy to pack day-pack: 30g (for short excursions from pre-established camp…but maybe just design top of main-pack to accommodate this task)

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What? Is this a joke? Absolutely NO NEED. If you are truly lightweight camping, you can just wear your fully loaded backpack whenever you are traveling. Better yet, take you 30gm mini-pack as your MAIN backpack!!! Can you go light enough to fit it all in???

You use the term "pre-established camp" and this is a term used by the "TRADITIONAL" camper. Re-configure your mind-set! Pick a more ambitious route! Hike farther! See more beauty!

–

2) Mini-shelter Cuben Tarp: 60g (sun shield, could be a blanket/bivy-style cover if sleeping-bag cold etc…but may just consider groundsheet to be this)

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What? Use this instead of your TARP-TENT RAINBOW, do NOT take both!

[Author]

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