Lightweight backpacking should go metric!

"these people are fanatic about every gram that can be shaved and spend considerable time with their dremel tools in hand scraping away every fleck of superfluous material."

Those people are weird. I don't have time to check that link, I gotta go trim the bristles on mt tooth brush and weigh my shoe laces :)

"Sometime ago in a open post to Ryan Jordan I requested that all BPL articles include both metric and US measuring systems, this appeared to be totally ignored."

Maybe they are trying to get the text converted into a different language.

–B.G.–

Methinks the reason why BPL hasn't made dual measurements compulsory is due to resistance from would-be contributors. As mentioned, I support the idea of listing both — but if compulsion results in fewer quality articles, then that's a total shame.

Again, I'm personally for dual listing — but everyone must remember that BPL is based in America and the vast majority of its readers are American as well. Volunteer encouragement is one thing — but brow beating authors is entirely something else. As for making this compulsory — let's just say our country doesn't operate this way. And neither should BPL.

I do wish that our government will force this issue, but in the absence of that, it is unfair to pressure any one private company to comply. In BPL's case, dual listing won't add one iota of clarity to its articles. Doing so is really only for the benefit of its foreign, minority readership. Still, it's a good thing to do — voluntarily.

>A pint's a pound the world around.

Interesting rhyme, I am not sure this is right

1 British liquid pint = 1.2 US liquid pint's and then there is the US dry pint which is different again.

Tony

"I work in the construction industry and I wish they would make the shift to metric- We would have a lot more accurately build houses."

I had a fraction calculator in high school a long time ago. What kind ruler are you using that marks inches in thirds anyway? Is it some kind of measuring stick from Myanmar.

Would a metric house be a little shorter than a standard house?

Anyway, I think in the U.S. you just have to learn both systems. I don't see why BPL should be forced to conform to any measuring system. …….. but I don't have a red M by my name so my opinion is null.

"Would a metric house be a little shorter than a standard house?"

Can you use a six-penny nail on a metric two-by-four?

–B.G.–

>but everyone must remember that BPL is based in America and the vast majority of its readers are American as well. Volunteer encouragement is one thing — but brow beating authors is entirely something else. As for making this compulsory — let's just say our country doesn't operate this way. And neither should BPL.

Maybe BPL should only accept American members, but how much culturally poorer would BPL be if it did.

When writing an article it is very easy to do the conversions at time of writing, it would only take a few second with each figure, there are many good web based conversion sites, I use the Zen Stoves Backpacking Calculators and Converters.

Tony

Bob, I haven't met a framer(rough carpenter) in the last 20 years who could tell me why a 6 penny (6d) nail was a 6 penny nail, or why a 6 penny is listed as "6d". The same is true for a 10d, 12d or 16d.
Most of the younger guys just know them as "sinkers", "coolers" or "ring shanks". The new gun nails all come in metric sizes, but for the metric impaired they list the sizes in inches also.

I think Houses would be a little taller- the standard now is a +/- 9 ft ceiling, it would probably just become a 3 meter ceiling height, thus a few cm's (or inches) higher then they are now.

maybe BPL doesn't have enough authors that they can afford to be so picky.

"Maybe BPL should only accept American members, but how much culturally poorer would BPL be if it did."

Nobody is suggesting that, Tony.

"I think Houses would be a little taller- the standard now is a +/- 9 ft ceiling, it would probably just become a 3 meter ceiling height, thus a few cm's (or inches) higher then they are now."

Back in my day, we would just use one extra log in the wall.

–B.G.–

"I think Houses would be a little taller- the standard now is a +/- 9 ft ceiling, it would probably just become a 3 meter ceiling height, thus a few cm's (or inches) higher then they are now."

Back in my day, we would just use one extra log in the wall.

–B.G.–

Gentlemen, using the logic of rounding — methinks hell would be a tad cooler under Fahrenheit — thinking 200F vs. 100C.

Either way is fine. I will stick with metric.
I don't understand the resistance. The fifth disappeared years ago, replace by the .75L. The new (downsized) OJ cartons are now 1.75L.
100mm cigarettes. 100 watt light bulb (do you want it in horsepower?)

What bothers me is when commercial gear is listed in both values.

If a product is listed as 28 ounces. I assume it is +/- 1/2 an ounce (+/- 14 grams)

If they list the weight as 794 grams, then I think they can hold the weight to 1/2 a gram.

Don't care about the units. Do care about the tolerance.

Timothy, some products have a natural variability in weight. For example, a down sleeping bag. Between the fabric, the down, and the variation due to humidity, the darn thing can be all over the place. On a two-pound down bag (or would that be a 0.9 kilogram bag?), the variation from one sample to another is an ounce, and the variation from day to day is another ounce. If they listed it as 794.3 grams, I would not believe that at all.

–B.G.–

wow, a simple OP and BOOM goes the dynomite!

Look, I think the bigger point I was trying to make as been missed. I was talking mainly about switching the lightweight backpacking standards. Sure, the numbers are arbitrary to beging with. But I say they ought to be more pragmatically arbitrary and go metric. Metric is simply easier to use and used by more nations. The whole point about Mandarin being the most popular language is a strawman, I never suggested the switch be only due to popularity. Metric is more consistent and easier to use, in addition to being used in everywhere but the USA and Miami or where ever the heck…

For our gram geek purposes, this should be our new standard:
SUL = 2.5kg, UL = 5kg, LW = 10kg

Now who's with me so I can call my new gear list UL at 4.8kg? :D

Only a simpleton will think the conversion of an entire system is "simple". Having said that, many of us are an emotional bunch — on both sides of the pond.

Ceasar,

I think most of it is tongue in cheek. I can use either. For some measures I need to convert in my head, but the math is much easier in the metric system for me. And some of us seniors just don't like to change, we embrace tradition.

"Back in my day, we would just use one extra log in the wall"

Metric logs or standard logs?

"…but still, metric is better than imperial."

And do you have any arguments for that?

Please read this very interesting article first (it'll take a while though):
http://www.earth360.com/math-naturesnumbers.html

After reading this article can you answer me why metric, or actually powers of ten (not versatile) are better than powers of six or twelve which are both versatile numbers, another interesting article on this site.

Eins

"And do you have any arguments for that?"

No. Seeing as I was opperating under the impression that we would not be communicating in absolutes, but in subjective interpretation, I just wanted to vent my feelings on the matter. Take em or leave em. Or disagree, it's cool. :)

Obviously other people like the US weight more and would call it "better". I don't really care. I just found the idea intersting of changing the arbitary standards of us gram geeks. I happen to find 2.5kg, 5kg, and 10kg more elegant and useful in addition to using a system (metric) that for me is easier to use and used by literally the whole world other than the USA and Mongolia or where ever the heck.

Then of course there is the issue that of my bias, which I keep mentioning. I say 4.8kg is UL dang-gum-it!

"Please read this very interesting article first (it'll take a while though):
http://www.earth360.com/math-naturesnumbers.html"

Thanks for the info. I might check it out.

"After reading this article can you answer me why metric, or actually powers of ten (not versatile) are better than powers of six or twelve which are both versatile numbers, another interesting article on this site."

I can not give you an absolute answer as to which system is "better", sorry. Nor can you do the same to establish that six and twelve are "versatile" (also a subjective term, as I understand it). ;)

METRIC FTW!

*deleted double-post*

Sorry about that! Ignore this post.

"Then of course there is the issue that of my bias, which I keep mentioning. I say 4.8kg is UL dang-gum-it!"

I'd say that too! There are still a lot people in the metric world that would be mind boggled about hiking with such a low weight. Then again the perception whether a pack is light or not is a relative thing. If this pack is perceived as light or not depends mostly on the pack bearer's age, which season one hikes and the geographical location and elevation of where one hikes amongst other things, but it does not depend on which unit system is used to measure the pack weight.

Lightness of your pack is perceived more on your back than on your scale.

So if this is the pack weight you are comfortable with for hiking, kudos to you, but I wonder why you are seeking for the BPL community's approval to agree with you that you have an UL pack vs. just a light pack?

Mr. Smarty Pants

I'll convert everything in my life to metric if I can get one of these… imagine how much lighter the day will be, even to the point of being sub-SUL, if we all carry around 20 hours instead of 24. Why, the fewer hours of daylight might even slow global warming!!

The time is 81660 millihours

Good idea – we should create a metric time scale. 24 hours/60 minutes and seconds are very awkward.

Seriously, how can the convenience of metric measurements be controversial?

You could argue it's too much hassle with not enough gain to switch.

Maybe there isn't enough science education which leads to the understanding of why metric is easier.