The Kettle is coming !

Heck all you really need is a spoon if you rehydrate in the bag. Otherwise, skip the pot, and bring a Glad 4C plastic storage container (1.9oz with top or 2.6oz with top and reflectix cozy). Doubles as your cup for hot drinks.

Some people just can't stand others having fun and enjoying their gear.
So at times they end up making a fool of themselves trying to prove their point and completely missing why others get excited about an item they don't like (or just cannot afford)
Here is an example :
http://www.backpacker.com/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=832107219;t=9991143891
(post 19 and a few after that…)
So JSJ42 is not alone. Or maybe he is….
Franco

I either buy freeze dried meals or make dehydrated meals. For store bought meals I pour hot water in the bag the meal comes in and let it rehydrate. For meals I make myself, they're packed in quart size freezer bags. Same story for those but I also bring a cozy that's sized to hold the freezer bag. Either way all I ever do is boil water.

I can see that the BCB would be useful for those that do freezer bag cooking.

I don't do boiling water in plastic though. Call me paranoid, but half melted plastic bags don't taste good and can't be good for you.

Weight-wise, I guess it doesn't make sense to carry the BCB *and* a cook pot to eat out of.

Which is a shame 'cause the BCB is pretty neat.

I've made quite a few meals in freezer bags and have never had one melt. Hundreds of recipes exist specifically for freezer bag cooking. AGG even sells a cozy specifically designed for freezer bags. To each his own I guess.

BCB and something like a snow peak titanium bowl at 1.6 oz would be pretty light if you don't do plastic.

#80 arrived today in Alaska…can't wait to get off work and fire it up!

"Weight-wise, I guess it doesn't make sense to carry the BCB *and* a cook pot to eat out of."

Again, it depends. Since you can boil water while cooking a meal in a pot over the BCB, it could work out very well. It's like having two stoves going at the same time, only you only have to use one. For two people I could really see this as a boon (have a hot meal and hot coffee/cocoa at the same time instead of one after the other!).

It just occurred to me that you can use a folding heavy foil (tin foil) pot. No real pot needed. You could even use a traditional birch bark container. In fact you don't need a "pot" at all -just a container.

Surely this must be the End of Days? More likely You will all get together with different levels of water in each Kettle and reprise Don Ho Hawaiian albums somewhere in California as well as "In my Room " by the Beach boys.A cross between the Harmonicats and Uri Geller? Then there is the Drumming possibility? Personally I'd love to hear it.

In the interest of being informational:

"Possibly illegal (in areas where open fires are illegal) – I don't see where this is any different than having any kind of stove."

Actually, this one's true — there are some places where you're not permitted to have open fires at certain times; in some cases it's due to general burn bans because of high fire risk, and in others it's to prevent people from harvesting wood from certain areas, for ecological reasons.

The burn bans are due to the fact that a lot of people don't know how to or are too lazy to properly douse a campfire, and campfires in dry loam can (and have) started some pretty destructive forest fires. Stoves aren't nearly as likely to cause wildfires because their flames are much more controlled, and when it's out it's out.

This is *not* my reasoning — and I could also be wrong, but I think this is the regulatory basis for the burn bans. The ecological reason for restricting wood harvesting is that in subalpine meadows, nurse logs form a significant part of the habitat's life cycle, because of their harsh environments and short growing seasons.

Not that I think that's a particularly significant knock against the boiler, though; you can use an alcohol burner with it and extract more of the alcohol's heat for boiling water than without the chimney, thus saving fuel. So although wood is probably optimal, alcohol as a backup isn't a bad deal, and when I get one of Devin's kettles, odds are alcohol will be my primary fuel, and found fuel will be a treat since I end up in no-fire zones quite frequently in my travels.

"No versatility (you can only boil water)"

I think that the idea of cooking on top of a kettle is quite feasible, but there's a bit of a caveat. One effect of the chimney design is that the heat from the flame is concentrated up the chimney. That leads to some seriously intense heat at the top of that chimney, which is why it boils water so quickly and efficiently. The down side to that is that if you'll burn most things that you might try cooking if you put them right on top of that.

Now I haven't tried this (and I don't have one of Devin's kettles yet, for budget reasons I missed out on the pre-order, but I have a Kelly Kettle so I'm going to see if I can try this soon), but it seems like the Vargo TiBoiler trick has some potential here. It's a similar idea to steam baking, which I think would work fine atop this sort of kettle if you have the right setup — the silicone cups with feet, for example, would probably do nicely, as would something like Tinny's Grate Oven, I think. The Vargo TiBoiler which I have also not tried yet looks like it's based on the same premise, but with a frying pan; basically, the idea is that you put a pot full of water on top of the boiler, and set the frying pan on top of that. That way the steam is heating the frying pan, instead of the intense flame coming out of the chimney. Vargo's implementation looks promising, but also very simple — the frying pan is shaped to sit nicely atop its companion pot.

Just brainstorming… and definitely not knocking the kettle, least of all Devin's. These are however potential ideas for accessories ;)

"Actually, this one's true — there are some places where you're not permitted to have open fires at certain times; in some cases it's due to general burn bans because of high fire risk, and in others it's to prevent people from harvesting wood from certain areas, for ecological reasons."

Hi Rakesh,

Appreciate the comments. But a question. I understand the harvesting wood piece, but why would the Boiler (or your kelly kettle) be considered an 'open fire?' I figured since the (very small) fire was contained in the burn cup, which is covered by the boiler itself, that this would be akin to an alcohol or canister stove.

>Appreciate the comments. But a question. I understand the harvesting wood piece, but >why would the Boiler (or your kelly kettle) be considered an 'open fire?' I figured >since the (very small) fire was contained in the burn cup, which is covered by the >boiler itself, that this would be akin to an alcohol or canister stove.

Doug,

I have had this conversation with some Rangers in Indian Peaks Wilderness in Colorado. Great area but they have some pretty stringent regulations regarding type of stove. To summarize the conversation only canister or white gas stoves are allowed in certain areas. Campfires, alcohol stoves and wood burning stoves are prohibited in these areas and I asked why alcohol and wood burning stoves are not allowed.

The response that I got was that wood burning and alcohol stoves don't have a shut off. To extinguish the flame, the fuel had to be consumed or the flame smothered in addition to the potential for sparks and ash. That is my take on the situation from my discussion with two very friendly rangers, the flame can't be controlled is the issue.

So there are places in Colorado where a wood burning stove is not permitted, ok, but at the same time alcohol stoves are in the same category.

Mike

"wood burning and alcohol stoves don't have a shut off"

Hey Mike, thanks much! I guess I can see their point.

Take care,

Doug

"Hey Mike, thanks much! I guess I can see their point."

I see their point also, but I like to think that I'm fairly responsible with my stoves, but there are always idiots out there that ruin it for the rest of us. To play devils advocate, those same idiots are the ones that over pressurize their Coleman 2 Burner Green Stoves and release a small ball of napalm when they light their stove… So when do those get banned?

"Appreciate the comments. But a question. I understand the harvesting wood piece, but why would the Boiler (or your kelly kettle) be considered an 'open fire?' I figured since the (very small) fire was contained in the burn cup, which is covered by the boiler itself, that this would be akin to an alcohol or canister stove."

I was going to reply saying I don't know, but some other folks beat me to it with answers :)

I would have agreed with you in principle, but now we have an answer I can understand the justification, unfortunately… a few irresponsible folks ruining for the rest of us.

I recall a conversation, I think it was here, where someone said that they'd asked a ranger about the subalpine meadow burn ban, and the rangers said that it was to prevent harvesting wood from the subalpine meadows. In theory it was ok to bring wood harvested from outside the no-fire zone, but too many people couldn't be trusted to adhere to that, so they just said "no fires" to prevent harvesting. It is sounds like the ban against burning in small, contained burn cups like these kettles is a similar issue :(

Douglas & Devin,

Thanks for addressing the real "meat" of my post with your thoughts on my pro/cons list – it has helped illuminate others' feelings on the Boiler as well as inform my own opinions. At this time I remain interested but am holding off to see what the improvements will be and give the hype a little time to settle down and see if people are continuing to use/enjoy their boilers.

To everyone else, I thought my post was on the "witty" side of the "smarmy" spectrum, but I tend to enjoy the offensive. Sorry to those who were, well, offended.

I don't see any advantage to this compared to a TD Sidewinder Ti Cone, with a Evernew 1.3 ultralight Ti pot. I can burn wood, Esbit, and alcohol, and have the capacity to do large single boils or even cook in the pot, or boil/cook for 2 people. Everthing will nest inside pot as well. Ok, I'm actually talking myself out of getting a BC Boiler. :)

Don't get me wrong everyone, I think the Backcountry Boiler IS really cool, but is it the right thing for me?

I think the biggest pro for me is the idea of unlimited fuel, because often when I'm out in the wilderness, I'm out for a LONG time. I'm particularly glad that Devin has pointed out that it is very efficient even in high winds. I'm curious if others have experienced this. I often camp above tree-line (which can create a fuel conundrum), but winds can rip up there…

Devin, I don't know if "Delicious" should be a particular selling point to the Boiler, unless food prepared with it's boiling water is actually tastier than boiling water from other stoves.

One thing I've been thinking is that if the whole top was removable, the boiler's versatility would be increased in that you could cook in the pot if need be or use it as a mug (though you could unlikely use it for water storage unless the top fit really well). Maybe radiusing the lower edge of the water storage area would make cleanup even easier on a model like this.

I've wondered if metal fins inside the chimney would significantly increase performance? I suspect they would.

I assume the reason the fire burns so well is due to the stack effect? eg, if you took the burner off and put a pot on top of a pot stand over the fire bowl, it wouldn't be very efficient?

And yes, I'm listing fuel gathering/stove attention as a con. I'm not discounting that some people find it fun, it's just that I'll often be either about to get an alpine start for a big climb, or just be returning from a big climb, and I want to be able to have meals ready with minimal time requirements. Ironically, when I am just out having a lazy day of camping, I like the ambiance of a wood fire, and this would be a good way to have a small one and cook at the same time – I was disappointed to find out that burning wood in the cup without a full boiler sitting on top of it is a no-no.

I think the idea of an integrated unit like the Backcountry Boiler is pretty cool. It's pot and stove in one. Obviously I'm not alone here; look at how popular the Jetboil is.

Not a lot of set up. Gather some sticks, and you've already got a fireplace ready to go. The fire "draws" up the chimney, so you get more out of your wood than if you just propped a pot up on some rocks over an open fire.

Yes the Backcountry Boiler is "inflexible" if you want to call it that. It only boils water and only up to a certain amount water, but if those parameters work for you, then it's not an issue. Not a whole lot different than a lot of other set ups in that respect.

The wood fires thing is what kills the Backcountry Boiler for me. Here in S. Calif, the fire danger is high. In the places where I like to backpack: San Gorgonio Wilderness, 100% ban on wood fires; San Jacinto Wilderness, 100% ban; San Gabriel mountains: fires allowed only in developed campgrounds. You could try using the Backcountry Boiler on the sly, but the smell of wood smoke tends to carry. If a fire ever did get started by the Backcountry Boiler, you'd be in HUGE legal trouble.

Pretty cool, but not really a good choice for Southern Cal.

HJ

I am always so jealous of the scenery you guys out West get to see on a regular basis but the fire hazard thing would be a bummer.
We have had our share of drought problems in the east in recent years, but I am lucky that none of those periods have coincided with any trips that I have been on.

I carried an alcohol stove as backup for years but I have made the transition to wood only for a number of trips now. (all in the East) I have had success in wet and dry conditions including deep snow. Instead of waiting until you get to camp, If you see a choice limb, go ahead and break it up and throw it in a small absorbent sack. I use the re-usable paper-like grocerystore sacks.(.5oz)
all you need is one limb… just a few ounces. If you are using a woodstove there is no reason to spend a lot of time Gathering wood. Of course a big fire is nice too.

> I don't see any advantage to this compared to a TD Sidewinder Ti Cone, with a Evernew 1.3 ultralight Ti pot. I can burn wood, Esbit, and alcohol, and have the capacity to do large single boils or even cook in the pot, or boil/cook for 2 people. Everthing will nest inside pot as well. Ok, I'm actually talking myself out of getting a BC Boiler. :)

Right, so I guess one thing that has been lost in all the talk of how cool it is is just how fast and efficient the Boiler is. I regularly go from match strike to boil in under 5 minutes (just about 5 even without the blowing some are averse to), and when I last weighed the fuel, found that it took just about 2 oz of sticks (very little to gather and a very light toll from the surrounding woods). The speed and efficiency is affected little by wind. In those three regards – speed, efficiency, and wind resistance – I have not seen its equal among wood stoves. That's why it stands out to me.

> Devin, I don't know if "Delicious" should be a particular selling point to the Boiler, unless food prepared with it's boiling water is actually tastier than boiling water from other stoves.

Yep, it tastes waaaaay better. That's why I included it. :)

The Backcountry Boiler also acts as a water bottle, unlike a ti pot.

No one seems to have mentioned one possible advantage of the boiler/chimney kettle over a ti-tri caldera cone or other wood stove (I presume):

the black soot is kept inside the kettle chimney (not on the outside of a pot), so cleaner to handle.

NB I have tried an inverted kettle idea: the chimney seems to work just as well on outside of the pot and is easier for MYOG.

Reading here I saw someone say that the top and the bottom have a tendancy to get stuck together,also since the base cones down smaller and the water weight is mostly at the top do these things tip easily and if they did would they roll with the base stuck dropping coals and fire where it rolls… Just a vision I had. Hope it is not a realistic possibility. Or could the neopream sleave melt or burn if the two pieces were not aligned because of something stuck between leaving a gap for fire to come out and adheare the two together. I hope this does not come off as me trying to bash something. Just wondering after reading all these posts and being interested in this product myself. I agree with all the pros of this product its a neat idea.