Stove Question – Winter/Summer

[Hikin’ Jim]

Back to the original question. Here are two stoves that can be used year round:
1. The MSR WindPro.

2. The MSR Simmerlite.

They're nearly identical stoves except that the Simmerlite runs on white gasoline and the WindPro runs on canister gas. The Simmerlite can pretty much operate in as low a temperature as any stove, certainly far below zero Fahrenheit. The Winpro is capable, in inverted canister mode, of operating down to at least zero Fahrenheit and probably five to ten degrees below that, possibly more if you employ some tricks to keep the canister warm.

HJ

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Jim M

> Workhorse high heat output: MSR Whisperlite or other gasoline fired stove.
Check the facts.
Typical white gas stove maximum output: about 2.4 kW
Typical canister stove maximum output: about 3.0 kW

Manufacturer data, not mine.

cheers

[Bob Gross]

It would be interesting to take those figures down to a nice Northern Minnesota winter temperature (Original Poster) of -20 F and then see how they compare.

It would be also interesting to get away from typical figures and use some specific stove models. I just looked for some, and I couldn't find them.

–B.G.–

[James Marco]

Ha ha, as always, this has turned into a free for all.

Fuel Density: Basically there is no difference between Kero, WG and Gas fuels. So close they can be ignored. Only priming has to be accounted for. Alcohol has about half the heat density as Kero.

Failure rates: Pump vs Lindal Valve. These are roughly the same. Only the older SVEA and a few others in the Optimus line do away with them (mostly all obsolete.) The Alcohol stoves are the most reliable.

Technique: The much dreaded fireball can be avoided. Learn how. Gas is subject to these, also. As is Alcohol. All are dangerous fuels with kero the safest.

Cost of operation: Kero vs WG vs Gas vs Alcohol. Kero is cheapest. WG is next. Alcohol is next most expensive. Gas is most expensive. (No, I don't drive my stove to the trail.)

Cost to buy: Kero vs WG vs Gas vs Alcohol. Kero stoves are generally the most expensive, followed by WG, Gas. Alcohol stoves are about the cheapest, often home built out of scrap cans.

Weight: Kero is the heaviest stove. WG is the next. Gas is next. Alcohol is lightest.

Ease of use: Kero vs WG vs Gas vs Alcohol. Gas is the easiest to use. Alcohol is the next easiest. WG is a bit more difficult. Kero is a hard starter.

Cold weather operation: WG is the best, followed by Kero. Gas and Alcohol are not real great with the screw on Gas versions fairly poor.

These are generalizations only.

In northern US states, The majority of us use WG, minimally for winter. Unless we are testing equipment or other non-routine hiking, at -30F to 110F, these stoves work. This is not an accident.

I would suggest at least two stoves, though, probably three.
First, have an alky burner for shorter weekend jaunts…lighter and cheap for shorter hikes.
Second, a WG stove for all season use and for longer trips.

Or

First, an alky burner for short hikes.
Second, a larger multi fuel stove for travel, base camping.
Third, a WG stove for all season use and for longer trips.

[Nick Gatel]

There are two camps.

The Roger Caffin camp likes canisters, and are willing to modify design to use in cold weather.

The Bob Gross camp likes WG, and are comfortable with the more complex workings of the apparatus.

No one is right, other than what you are most comfortable working with.

[Rick]

Wow, I never realized this would generate so many opinions!

In my case, I'm thinking the following,

I'm starting to lean towards a Simmerlite now for winter (fortunately I can wait on the purchase for now…) I need the liquid fuel since there are mornings when you wake up and it's -15F out, and I need something that will start up. I won't mind the tank not being able to pack with my cookset since I use a ski pulk anyway to haul my gear. It will still pack smaller than my existing Coleman stove.

For summer, I think I'm going to try a lightweight stove/canister. Not really decided yet on brand, but probably snowpeak, but since it will all be on my back, I need everything to pack nicely in my pack.

Thanks for the help everyone! Feel free to add more discussion!

Rick

[Hikin’ Jim]

Be careful of what you ask for around here. lol.

In terms of compactness and weight, I think you'll like the Simmerlite — particularly after having to slog a heavy Coleman around. However, be warned the Simmerlite DOES NOT in general simmer, light though it may be. If you're looking for a snow melter and water boiler, the Simmerlite will do you. If you're looking for the kind of fine simmer that you can get on your Coleman, you'd do well to keep looking — or invest in a simmer plate (a tin can lid will work).

HJ

[Brad Groves]

"White gas stove are obsolete for me – I'm tired of singeing my eyebrows, the stove plugs up so you have to take it apart and get it to work, occasionally the fuel gets on my hands or gear and it really stinks

MSR simmerlite plus fuel bottle weighs 14 ounces

cannister stove plus empty 8 ounce canister weighs 8 ounces – so it's lighter"

A few points:

Simmerlite + 11 fl oz bottle is 11.5 ounces

An empty 8 oz isopro canister weighs 4.5 ounces, combined w/a GS-100 total weight 7.75 ounces. BUT we get consistently better performance from remote-canister stoves in mild winter conditions, so it would be more apt to compare the Simmerlite to its canister sibling, the Windpro.

The Windpro is 6.8 oz + 4.5 oz canister, total 11.3 ounces.

0.2 ounce difference between same-stove in WG & canister, not accounting in any way for fuel consumption or boil time differences.

As for safety, I have never singed my eyebrows with any stove… though I've distinctly burnt some knuckle hair with alcohol a couple times. I've also never spilled the fuel on my hands, or had a fuel container leak. I've only used 2 stoves that clogged up & required stripping down to clean; those stoves went to the wayside, & I went back to those stoves that haven't given me problems over the last 20+ years.

In warmer weather, alcohol and canister stoves rock! BUT, for a true, below 0*F winter stove, neither is preferable.

[Bob Gross]

You know how you can identify the white gas stove owner among all of the other backpackers?

He will be the one with the hair on the back of his right hand singed off.

Those initial few drops of fuel have to go somewhere.

–B.G.–

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Bob

> It would be also interesting to get away from typical figures and use some specific stove
> models. I just looked for some, and I couldn't find them.
Listed in some of our technical stove review articles. (Sorry!)

> You know how you can identify the white gas stove owner among all of the other backpackers?
And you know how to identify a kero user? (I was one for many years.)
By the distinct smell of kero everywhere!
My wife was never enthused.

Cheers

[Author]

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