I am now even more pssd off with Western Mountaineering

So, do you allege that the down simply started clumping up on its own?

There is a big difference between knowing how to dry a bag and actually doing it correctly.

–B.G.–

I don't think I would ever send a high quality bag like that to a third party for cleaning. They could do anything to it. By what method was it cleaned?

While I wouldn't expect WM (or anybody else) to replace a bag due to clumping after a third-party wash — dragging this for over a month is definitely suboptimal customer service. I would have expected WM to contact OP and let him know either the bag will be replaced with a new one — or explain why not — within a week or so after receiving it.

Most all WM feedback that I've read are positive to very positive — for both product and service. But of course, all companies produce (or hire) a lemon or two. Sorry this happened to you, Brett.

The whole drying thing has been gone over in a previous post. To be concise, I have always cleaned the bag the way they say to and the way they said for me to do it when I first called which is a bit different. Never have a problem with another bag. But that is kind of missing the point of the post.

The third party wash didn't happen until I sent it to them and they sent it back to me and told me to try it again. So I did it their way which didn't help and and then I sent it off to a long time reputable local professional service which does a lot of bags and quilts. They tried for about a week to remedy the situation but they couldn't help it. I got it back in the same condition in which I gave it to them in.

Ben, have always heard good things about their products but never their service. Actually I have heard nothing about their service. All I know is every time I called called it seems like I am bothering them and they have more important things to do than take of me as a customer or resolve my problem.

In the business sense, Customer Service is never a profit center. It is a cost center. Business managers normally put their best employees into profit centers, since that generates the profit. Of course, if the Customer Service gets really bad, then eventually that is likely to hurt sales, which hurts profits.

Since (it is thought that) Customer Service employees can be easily replaced, they are often the first to be laid off during a recession. That isn't necessarily so that they can be easily replaced.

Whenever I've needed anything important from Western Mountaineering, I've always just barged in their front door since I live about 15 minutes away.

–B.G.–

If I recall correctly, weren't you the one washing the bag like 20X more than anyone else around here?

Seems to me you're quite lucky they would even entertain replacing it, regardless of if they take a while to do so.

A customer and third party does who knows what (from their perspective) to trash a bag, yet they'll put up a new one to make you happy? Seems to me this is actually pretty good customer service.

Seems to me you're even luckier if you can off a brand new replacement for $210.

Seems to me this will ultimately work out pretty well for you, less so for WM.

If I recall correctly, weren't you the one washing the bag like 20X more than anyone else around here?

That's the worst part. He went out of his way to mess up an expensive sleeping bag, gets WM to replace it for free, and then badmouths them in a public forum.

Uncool.

Someone is simply shameless. I own five WM bags and would recommend them without reservation. As others have noted, this is a story that continues to change. The dispute should be between the owner and the cleaner, not the owner and the manufacturer.

They are giving you a free bag to replace the one that you might or might not have trashed yourself by over washing and your upset? Down clumping? I bet it was a bad year for goose down when they made it. Look for a bag with down from 2006-2007. That was a great period for geese. Almost no clumping at all. Then Obama took over and ruined everything.

Yep, I'm on board with the general theme here. Your down wasn't flawed. Either you have unreasonable expectations, or you did something that damaged your down. WM treated you right. Sure, they were a little slow, but their not at your beck and call. Glad I'm not selling you anything!

Chuck about 6 tennis balls into a big commecial dryer and alternate between no heat and low heat for an hour… problem solved.
I own a 20 year old WM Antelope Goretex 0 degree and a 3 year old Ultra light 20 degree.
I have never washed the zero degree bag even once. never needed to.
I used the ultra light for the entire PCT and CDT and washed it in a bath tub ONCE after each hike using down wash.
Both times the down was clumpy after initially drying the bag.
The simple act of tossing some tennis balls for an hour in un-clumped the down and the bags are good as new.
If you soil your down bag a trick you can do is just wash of the fabric with a wet cloth and air dry in in the sunlight. Even after living in my down bag for two thru hikes it smells pure as the driven snow.(okay.. mild exageration)
Personally I would NEVER.. EVER..EVER let anyone else wash my down sleeping bags.
Rather than wash…
When in doubt.. air it out.

What Matt said. Patience in drying and using many tennis balls is the key. Works for me too.

But I would not use NikWax's down coating, water resistance solution unlesss the down is SO old it's nearly dead.

What everybody said who disagrees with you.

I think it's extremely poor that you continue to blame them for the damage you personally did (or paid to have done) to your WM bag. I think it's extremely poor for you to be receiving a brand new replacement for an non defective product by a reputable company and you still have the stones to bash them in a public forum for it.

I wouldn't replace your bag, and if I was with WM, I'd return you your destroyed bag instead of a replacement. It's obvious you're no longer a customer, so damage control is useless.

Good luck selling your bag, I wouldn't give you $1 for it.

Not that I know the details of what transpired (or care to know), but if I were OP…

I'd rather that WM deal with this in a reasonable time frame — replace the bag or just tell me "no because". Yes, it seems awfully nice of WM to replace the bag — but we all know how that raises anticipation — and it's just not fun to then be strung along for a whole month (if not longer)… which goes back to my first response above.

i work in a gear store and 1-2 months is great customer service.(TNF and columbia can take up to 4 months usually) The only reason arcteryx take a couple weeks, is because they have low returns and their 1 day away on a fedex truck. and my 2cents i wouldn't have accepted that sleeping bag for warranty.

Around where I live, when somebody has a sleeping bag like that which is kind of marginally OK, but not quite right, it is donated to the local charities for the homeless. The bags get a whole new useful life that way, and nobody is complaining about some lumps. In fact, if enough sleeping bags like that are donated, the homeless people don't have to fight over them.

–B.G.–

> If I recall correctly, weren't you the one washing the bag like 20X more than anyone else around here?

Someone please remind me, but was this bag washed in warm water with a little down soap, or dry cleaned using solvents?

My concern here is that down relies on its native oils to retain its elasticity, and every wash strips some of those oils off. 20 washes in warm water will certainly do some damage to the down, but 20 dry cleaning cycles would, imho, utterly destroy the down.

Cheers

The most often that any down bag of mine has ever been washed was about once every ten years, and that was a bathtub wash, a tiny bit of down soap, with extra rinses, no squeezing, and a slow/long drying. I have no idea how good a professional down washer is.

–B.G.–

Actually, I just wrote this thing explaining it all but I decided to just delete it because it doesn't matter. The bag was not washed 20x and was washed according to their video and directions on the phone. It was only taken to a professional service as a last resort and was a suggestion of both of theirs and mine.

So yeah, somewhere along the line I might have done something wrong with the whole process but I don't see where. Maybe the water here sucks or I have a death touch or the original soap was bad or…. But don't jump on me when and put up a straw man.
There have been to many attacks on people lately where some are just spouting off and have no connection to the issue. Last week it was at Bender.

Does anyone have some positive, negative or neutral encounters with WM then, not a dealer?

meh

Brett, from your prior posts-
I noticed the down inside of it started bunching up after…a year and a half and about 6 washes.
I tried for a whole weekend to wash, rinse and dry but it just got worse.
I washed it again. Rinsed it. Dried it for a long time.
I dried it for 3 hours when I got it back and it didn't help. washed it and have it in the dryer for 4 hours now.
I am going to try and dry it quite another few hours to get to 8 and see how it is then.
The more I dry it, the more the down balls up. What is with that?

Actually I do what they say to do on the website.
>Except for they also suggest to take it out every 15 minutes in the dryer and pound it.

Hmmm……sounds like once it clumps, early intervention is called for.
Perhaps washing and drying over and over just added to the problem.

If WM had read your how I can't get rid of these clumps/ here's what I did thread. Probably a good chance that they would tell you how pist off they are with the way you take care of one of their products, and send you back your lumpy bag. Give it a rest. Are you not the one who expects whites to get really white washing in cold? I think someone is laundry challenged.

From the posting of your thread it reads like you washed your delicate down gear way to much. Or you made a mistake and tried to rectify the problem by over drying several times to get the clumps out.
Your very lucky they are replacing it for you and not telling you to take a hike and go to the third party to refund you for your loss. Most cleaners clean down items like comforters that have lower grades of down in the them.

When you get the new sleeping bag get a bag liner so you don't have to wash your sleeping bag so much and a little bit of dirt does not hurt you on backpacking gear.

Also Western Mountaineering might be trying just to catch up on all the orders from christmas which happens to cottage industry and companies who are growing rapidly because they have hot product. Yes WM is a cottage industry is one of the oldest it not like Marmot who are a large company they will replace anything just to make you happy like REI.

Sounds like you don't take care your bags all that well. I have 3 WM bags and would not buy anything else. My Apache has been with me since 99. Sometimes things don't always go your way with dealing with customer service as we are all humans. Before you tar and feather them, I wished you would have stepped back before slamming them. For me, they are a local company (based in San Jose) and make incredible bags.