Compression socks for hiking??

[Ian]

Valerie,

Therein lies the problem.   I haven’t found a sock that’s working for me.   Wright socks have been comfortable but the smell is pretty offensive.   Darn Tough ankle socks are odorless but the ankle rash is miserable.

I’m looking at the entire market and am willing to consider just about anything other than the above mentioned socks.

[M B]

Ankle rash from socks???

Are you allergic to wool or something?

I use quarter crew . DT mesh, unpadded. Cycling socks.

Little ankle protection.

[Valerie E]

Hmmmm, well Wrights are mostly polyester, which is oleophilic (attracts/retains oils, which is what’s carrying the odour)… so you need something oleophobic (like nylon).

Ruling out the obvious — Do other brands of merino socks give you a similar rash? I notice that DT brand has a higher percentage of merino than, say Smartwool or Icebreaker, which you may have worn in the past.

Maybe try THESE — The company’s website is extremely squirrelly about fabric content, but I’ve seen two other sites that mention low-to-no merino and lots of nylon in their fabric content.  They also make compression socks, btw.  You might email the company and get more details on materials, but in general, for odour control, nylon is SCADS better than poly, plus it wears like iron!

Thread drift warning:  A few months ago, I had a casual discussion, on line, with Judy Gross (owner of Heartfire Gear), wherein we both lamented the lack of nylon hiking shirts.  I understand why they’re getting rare:  manufacturers have figured out that nylon clothing lasts *nearly* forever, which really cuts down on sales.  Poly shirts have to be replaced constantly (b/c of perma-stink), so they’re great for the company’s bottom line!  I asked Judy if she’d consider making a nylon hiking t-shirt style, and she said “maybe”… I hope she does; I know I’d buy a bunch of them in all the colours!

[Ian]

MB,

Not sure if it’s an allergy or if my skin is having some sort of non allergic reaction to the fibers.   It’s been this way all my life but usually it was pretty mild.   I don’t believe my Army socks had merino wool, not that I even knew what that was until a half dozen years ago.  Who knows but it only happens with wool socks

[Ian]

Valerie,

No I haven’t tried those other socks.   I’ve no idea if the merino wool causes a stronger reaction than non merino but I guess I could experiment some.   I’ll take a look at your other suggestion.   Thanks

[BlackHatGuy]

I have not tried these, but you might give them a shot: Bugsaway Compression Socks.

If you order any by 4pm today, you can get 25% off, FWIW. Already factory permethrin treated.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Ian

Sources Roger?
I think we have several older threads here at BPL which have discussed the idea. Searching the web will give you hordes of hits – but skip the ones from the vendors. They tend to be slightly biased as there is big $$ involved.

Compression socks were developed to aid some people with DVT. But note that DVT is a medical condition involving serious physiological problems (weakened valves in the veins in the lower leg). They can help with this problem.

The leap to selling to the general public in the 21st C for athletic performance is pure marketing.

Cheers

[Ian]

Thanks Roger.  I can show you a study that says you shouldn’t floss, but I also choose to ignore it as it isn’t consistent with real world experience, which is what I’m looking for here.

[Roger Caffin]

OK, real world experience.

I was sent some compression tights and top to test for BPL. I tried wearing them overnight one night in the mountains. My legs froze. So I took them off (under my quilt), and I could feel the warmth flow back into my legs. I had a good night thereafter.

That meant the compression tights were constricting the blood flow through my legs so much that warmth from my core was not getting down to my legs. I am a classic medium in size, and so were the tights. Compression, right?

But that meant the tights were restricting not only the warmth from my core but also the blood, and the oxygen in the blood, and the blood and plasma systems were not sweeping the waste products from my muscles out of my legs. I cannot imagine that this was good for me at all. My subsequent web searches supported these conclusions. Treadmill tests in independent labs agreed.

But what about all the glowing endorsements you see on the vendors web sites and on the web? A sad secret for you: pro athletes do not make a living from prize winnings. No chance. They make their living from paid endorsements their agents negotiate for them. The photo shoots are probably the only time the athletes even see the product. Either their agent, or the customer rep, writes the endorsement. It’s a dirty business.

I challenged the rep who sent me the stuff to provide some independent medical references to support his claims. He ranted a bit, tried to say I was not honouring the agreement to provide a positive review, but had NO references he could supply.

You know all those product reviews you read on Amazon? They are mostly written by about 1,000 paid shills. Amazon found this out and is starting to address the problem. Marketing can be a very dirty business.

Come in sucker (and bring your wallet).
Cheers

[Ryan Smith]

Roger,

Regardless of whether compression socks/sleeves have any benefit, yours were too tight. In order to get a proper fit, you must measure the circumference of your limbs and match it to the proper size sock, sleeve, etc. If you were able to feel the blood rush back into your legs – they were waaaaay too tight.

Ryan

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Ryan

Yes, but … regardless of the sizing, if the tights are compressing your legs they are restricting your circulation. I will leave it to the vendors to argue that a reduction in circulation might benefit you.

And if they do not compress your legs, then they are just expensive ‘longs’ to compete with proven Capilene etc.

Do you suffer from DVT?

Cheers

[Ryan Smith]

There’s a possibility it’s restricting circulation, but up to a certain point maybe that doesn’t make a difference in any appreciable way. I could wear mine 24/7 and never experience the sensation you did(which is why I think they were too tight).  I think at worst they provide no positive or negative effects. At best they provide some support to muscles which could help in recovery or to prevent injury. I don’t believe they provide any sort of performance advantage.

No DVT thankfully. I wear them to help combat shin splints from running 30-40mi per week.

Ryan

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Ryan

Find me a independent medical research paper published in a refereed western journal which endorses the idea. Papers paid for by vendors or published by vendors simply do not count. Papers published in most Indian ‘journals’ don’t count either as most of them are ethics-free pay-for-publish scams.

So far I have found lots of scams but no reputable papers. About the best I have seen is a statement that the results do not support the vendor claims. That is academic/legal jargon for ‘complete rubbish’.

P T Barnum.

Cheers

[Ian]

Seems like you have an axe to grind here Roger.   I’m personally just looking for a comfortable pair of socks.   I own a few comfortable pairs of pants but I don’t have a peer reviewed medical paper to support that claim.   YMMV

Ryan,

Thanks for your input

[Roger Caffin]

an axe to grind ..
Probably.
I dislike charlatans who make fake medical claims.
When they happen on BPL I call them out.
As I wrote before, I did have a row with a vendor rep who was outraged that I would not write a glowing review at his request. He got quite rude, but never came up with a single refereed paper in support.

Cheers

[Chuck Susie]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25627452

 

[Roger Caffin]

The abstract for that paper gives the game away:

. In the compression group, average treadmill run to exhaustion time 2 weeks after the marathon increased by 2.6% (52 ± 103 seconds). In the placebo group, run to exhaustion time decreased by 3.4% (-62 ± 130 seconds), P = 0.009. This shows a significant beneficial effect of compression socks on recovery compared with placebo.

The total number of athletes tested was 33. This is a small number. Drawing inferences from such a SMALL trial is risky. Relying on a few percentage points with such a small number is equally risky.

For the non-statisticians, the quoted increase of 52 +/- 103 seconds or 2.6% is not distinguishable from a null result over that number of participants. A decrease of 62 +/- 130 seconds is equally indistinguishable from a null result.

Their conclusion of a significant beneficial effect is rather typical of medicos who have little or no training in statistics. A pity the journal did not have better trained referees.

This is however quite common in sports medicine – sadly.

Cheers
EDIT:
33 subjects. That’s probably 100 sets of clothing. The abstract does not list funding sources – I wonder who supplied the clothing? I doubt the medicos paid for it.

[Ian]

Chuck,

Thanks for the link

[Chuck Susie]

Roger you won’t like this study because of it’s small size but I doubt it was funded by the clothing manufacturers you seem to dread.    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29927896

Compression socks won’t make you faster or a tough hike easier but those who wear them do have real science on their side.

[Ryan Smith]

“Find me a independent medical research paper published in a refereed western journal which endorses the idea. Papers paid for by vendors or published by vendors simply do not count. Papers published in most Indian ‘journals’ don’t count either as most of them are ethics-free pay-for-publish scams.”

Roger,

Let’s be honest. Any paper or study that I present will not be sufficient in some form or fashion, so why waste each others time. They work for me(and others) and I’m OK if you think they’re snake oil. No biggie.

Ryan

[Roger Caffin]

the clothing manufacturers you seem to dread
Dread ????? Hardly. I just recognise them as profit-oriented vendors, with reduced ethics.

Any paper or study that I present will not be sufficient in some form or fashion, so why waste each others time.
Fair enough. HYOH.
I have seen a few papers that were respectable. They all had null results. I have seen far more ‘papers’ which were done with vendor funds, and some of them claimed an effect. However, looking at the statistics left me shaking my head.

As for the 2nd PubMed paper – that was investigating Pulse Wave Velocity in the aorta. We know already that compression stockings assist people with defective valves in the return veins. That is treating a medical condition. What else did that paper say?

Cheers
PS: for those new to BPL: I spent 27 years as a PhD government research scientist in work which was very heavily into statistics. This included education (by an expert) into how to fudge them – or how to detect that.

[Chuck Susie]

What else did that paper say?

That the volunteers were young and healthy.

[Ian]

Roger,

For whatever reason, compression socks give you heartburn.   That’s perfectly fine.

We discuss things all the time here on BPL that are based on personal preference and on anecdotal experiences.  That is also perfectly fine.

Not everything needs to be backed by scientific research.   I realize that statement will likely throw me in the same pit with climate deniers, but for many of us, just hearing about the personal experiences of others is good enough.

By all means, keep on fighting the forces of evil.

For those new to BPL, I sometimes drink PBR and I once crapped my pants in Pakistan, more on that in a future water treatment thread.

[Valerie E]

Ian — I just came across this issue in one of my Women’s hiking groups.  I had never heard of it before, and wonder if this may be relevant:

Exercise-Induced Vasculitis (aka “hiker’s rash” or “golfer’s rash”) — info HERE

This may/may not be what happened, but I thought I’d give you the info, just in case!

[Ian]

Thanks for the link Valerie.

[Author]

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