Big, Heavy Packs

OHH NOOO, Chad has you all figured out. Not serious backpackers but too serious on the forum (I hope he doesn't figure me out :( ). At first I hoped it was just Ike but it looks like he's on to everyone (please, oh please not me…).

Chad, what will it take to….uh…you know…to ensure you keep this between us friends on the bpl forum. I'm sure me and my compadres would be absolultey beside ourselves if some serious backpacker saw through our facade in the backcountry.

Also, regarding your uncanny ability to spot a poser… could you clue us in so we could further develop out craft.

If you are just trail hiking, even for a couple weeks, with cheap gear that isn't "ultra" light one doesn't need a big pack.

That being said. My first pack was a 4.5lb external frame pack. Loved it after it quit squeeking on milepost 8 or so… digging into my back with its cross bar, smacked my head with its top bar…

Also have used a Kelty Super Tioga at 8lbs to carry 4×5 view cameras with all the film slides, change bag, light meter, etc. It adds up fast and takes up a Huge volume of space.

For weekend take a 2000 cub inch pack.

Bought Dana Designs Astraplane online because it was going for nearly free and then decided that the Gregory Denali Pro was better for hauling 4 weeks of food and climbing gear for going into remote locations in the Coast Mountains of British COlumbia. These packs are deficient at any load over 70lbs though. Dana Designs/Gregory/Arc TEryx/Osprey are all the same just different colors really and price.

Even for carrying only 50lbs of climbing gear for a week-10+ day trips through the pickets in Washington State North Cascades National Park MChale packs are still superior to a 55L black diamond pack which is darned good as it has haul loops and ability to attach a bunch of gear on the outside which I have used extensively for climbing for week long trips. Mchale packs shrink for doing rock climbing as well.

If I had tons of money, sure I would buy all super light gear and get a dyneema McHale backpack. Real reason? I carry a lot of photgraphic gear along with my climbing gear. Better to be comfortable than miserable.

IF like most folks the longest you go out for is 3 days, then no one needs a large pack. If you have to haul other peoples crap, cuz they are newbies, or because you want to go somewhere remote, then you need the big pack. Or you are one of those folks that MUST stick everything inside your pack making it impossible to find, requiring a 5 hour stop everytime you want a snack…

"I don't care how big the mountain, Tom, I am not hauling an 85L pack!! :)"

Ben, I have and will NEVER do that again. I think it is a lot more cool doing what we do versus what the others do. I used to think having a big pack made you "manly"….yeah right. Using my head, experience and the gear I have makes my wilderness experience cherished.

Ha ha ha….Hey Chad, I am a serious backpacker. I take my safety seriously, I take my outdoor experience seriously and I take my own experience seriously. You seem to be a stick in the mud buddy. Macho Macho Man, I wanna be a Mach Man…..

wow

and Chad, I assume that your Ike comment was towards a Mr. Ide?? In a few weeks I will ask him how serious he is about backpacking.

For those that have hiked with me, Ya'all know that I am NOT too serious. In fact….I am a class clown…so I guess that makes me a "not serious" backpacker. Oh well dude, see ya on the trails in the Sierra's pppppppfffffffffffftttttttttttt

As Clinton himself might have asked…

To me, being a serious hiker means giving it the proper attitude: wilderness hiking is not a stroll in the park. So, everyone would do well to acquire the requisite experience and gear for whatever hikes he or she plans to embark on. There's a wide range from an urban trail to a thousand-mile thru hike or the Himalayas.

In answering Ryan's question, I did not equate "serious" with "hardcore" or "macho". Maybe that was what Chad had in mind?

"Form (and weight) follow function"

I follow this in my dating life as well. And I'm one heck of a serious dater. Ain't gonna talk about my UL pack, though….

The problem with most "big" packs is that there are lighter adequately durable alternatives that will do the same job. That to me is what makes so many mainstream packs ridiculous.
The need to carry "big" loads is a separate matter and depends entirely on the intention and circumstances of the trip.

For some it has positive connotations, and for others clearly negative. If you fall into the latter group, try substituting "passionate". If that is still too much commitment, how about "really interested". Most of us would consider ourselves to be "serious/passionate/really interested" backpackers. Why else would you following a forum on backpacking philosophy?

I took the original post at face value, rather than as a call to debate semantics. (ie. It would be silly to define a backpacker based on something as inconsequential as a the size of their pack, so what really defines a serious/passionate/really interested backpacker?)

For me, it is that I go backpacking every opportunity I get, spend the time in between planning trips to challenge my abilities or take me to new places, and spend some time browsing trip reports and these forums to fuel my imagination. I also use backpacking as a way to spend real time with my family and to teach my girls values I consider to be important.

I guess though that by posting this, I have just proven that I'm not really a passionate or interested backpacker either…

I just love how some are so quick to defend how serious they are about their backpacking.

It's not that the word serious has positive or negative connotations; it has nothing to do with being safe, or being prepared. It's all about the ego that comes across when someone defending the seriousness of their backpacking. :P

Now if you’ll excuse me I have a serious winter trip to head out on.

Ego: An inflated feeling of pride in your superiority to others ;)

Have a great weekend all!

Now THAT / is what I'm talkin' 'bout. :P

Ike, you sir are a serious backpacker for sure! ;)

I thought this was a good topic for discussion and didn't mean to corrupt it by taking offense at trivialities. Sorry Chad, honestly. I thought you were joking for your first post or two.

I am joking.

Well poking fun at the ego that some have.

I also thought this was a good topic for discussion and demonstrates that you don't need a pack anywhere near that size for "serious" backpacking. Obviously serious backpacking can be defined many ways, but to me hiking the AT, PCT, etc. seems like it should qualify. I haven't done such a hike, but I can't imagine too many people that have would be out there with big, heavy packs. There are many valid reasons to carry these packs, but having to do so in order to be considered a serious backpacker is not one of them. The biggest problem I have with companies marketing these packs that way is that it worked on me. I carried around a Bora 80, a heavy tent, etc. for far too long. I always enjoyed myself and the thought of carrying all the weight never prevented me from going on a trip, but since I've lightened my load I find backpacking even more enjoyable.

"The biggest problem I have with companies marketing these packs that way is that it worked on me." –Chris S.

I know that's the truth for me. Chris said it best. I fell for it in the beginning (and the middle I guess) and spent way too much money on gear that just sits there and apparently no one on this forum wants (Thank God for eBay). I also think what Chris said holds true for many of us if we're honest with ourselves.

But the upside- you needed to carry all the heavy gear to fully appreciate what it is like to go lighter.

"May the Road Rise to Meet You"–The Wolfe Tones

Yes, it's clever marketing designed to strike at our emotions — be it our fears or our desire to feel macho. But I like to add one more. Once the idea of the "proper" way is planted inside us, it is very difficult to change — as Hikin' Jim wrote above.

For me, I started off as a light hiker right from the get go (didn't know about UL options) — but shifted completely to UL alternatives after my second hike, upon discovering this site. Why so easy for me to shift? Because I had been traveling light for almost a decade prior to hiking!! However, I can remember just how long it took me to make the mental shift from traditional traveling (American Tourister hardsided luggage if you can believe it) to transitional backpacking (wheeled backpack) to regular backpacking until finally just traveling with a bookbag! If you were to introduce me straight to UL hiking or traveling 15 years ago, I would not have been able to make the shift. I might even have LAUGHED at you. Why?

I might have laughed at the implausibility of UL traveling or hiking 15 years ago because both my mind and my gear pieces are unsuited. There are many even here who poo poo UL hiking — insisting only McHale's and Kifaru's can work — methinks because their gear pieces are simply too bulky and heavy. Of course they can't see UL working for them. But if they are so inclined and they change out their pieces — then given time, UL can be a proper match for them.

Finally, I think it's unfortunate that "heavy" hikers and "UL hikers can't be more respectful of each other's styles. It's only backpacking! :)

1. I love backpacking, and take parts of it seriously, but I don't consider myself a "serious backpacker." I've met some of those guys (and they are almost all guys), and they aren't much fun. I am proud to be blue blazin'; hiker trash.

2. That looks like an Astralplane, circa 1994 or so. Golly, what a monster. No. Not in the market for that.

3. OK, I forget what question 3 is. Getting old.

EDIT: looks like my answer to 2 is actually 3. Oh well.

2. I like my ULA Ohm. If I need to carry winter gear, I still like the SMD Starlite, which I used as my only pack for 5 years. I can hike indefinitely with either of those packs as long as I can resupply every 5 days or so. If it's more "serious" than that, then I'm not much interested. (See #1, above.)

"insisting only McHale's"

You mean like Ryan Jordan?

"Yes, it's clever marketing designed to strike at our emotions — be it our fears or our desire to feel macho"

Indeed it is. Pathos is certainly the most common. Egos and Logos are also used to manipulate the consumer in each of us.

Ryan Jordan insisting only Mchales. That's completely new to me, Ure, casue that would imply Ryan uses only Mchales. Please provide link(s) to this because I suspect it's your reading miscomprehension that's tripping you — again.

NM

So no link to your allegation that Ryan insists only on Mchale's? You were awfully specific about the man's pack insistence!

You will do well to own up to your own reading shortcomings rather than your habitual "tit for tat". But just to enlighten you, as far as saying that UL is a fad or that only heavy packs will do (I used McHale's and Kifaru's as "stand in" for heavy packs which should be obvious to most people) — click for posts made by Kutenay (which will show up various other names as well) — or posts made by BradMT on Backpacker.com forum.

I will post no more about this nor respond to your idiotic rants. This thread has been knocked tangential enough times.

Ben, What David is trying to say is that I also make Light packs, and Ryan Jordan has even had at least one of the light ones and it can be found in a search of this website. Your broadbrushing is not all that accurate. I very regularly make packs between 2 and 3 lbs for people carrying up to 30 lbs or so.

Dan:

I stand corrected for using your packs as a stand in for "heavy". My bad and my apologies.

But if David was trying to say that you also make Light packs by saying that Ryan Jordan insists on McHale packs — then he said it very badly.

It was your comment saying people that poohoo UL techniques insist on using McHale's and Kifarus. David knew Ryan used McHale's so David made the leap to say Ryan must be insisting on McHale's as well. I don't think you can Blame David when it was you that spoke inaccurately in the first place.

I was really going to try to stay out of this thread and I'm done as far as I'm concerned.