Raingear for JMT/SHR in Sept

I was on the JMT in September of last year. I brought my DriDucks (jacket and pants).
I got a little rain, some snow, and cold winds. It was in the 30's and 40's on some days, and the wind was biting. The DriDucks were great for the rain, but what I really appreciated was having them to block the wind.

I'd bring a rain parka or a Packa (parka/packcover)

I have a Cabela's PacLite rainsuit and for the high Sierras would even consider taking the pants for wind and snow protection in September B/C even then the weather can begin to get suddenly nasty.

My alternative to leaving the rain pants behind is my heavier all nylon hiking pants (5.11 brand) that I've washed in NikWax DWR and sprayed with Revivex DWR. I've used these pants for everyday backpacking and they shed most of the rain. But I've never used them in a all day rain.

If you can afford it eVent rain suits are great as they are also a good wind barrier and breath well – sort of a dual duty item.

My vote would be the spinnshelter + driducks. I switched from a tarp/poncho to that combo and found I was very happy with the change. But that's largely because poncho like clothing just doesn't make me happy. if you do go the gatewood cape route, bring a windshirt… odds are you will use it more than the cape. As other said, rain pants can be nice if the conditions turn nasty. I have typically passed on rain pants in Sept unless the long term weather forecast was predicting a serious storm. I have been fine with no rain pants provided the pants dry quickly (or even better have decent DWR like the BPL thorafare pants). I would recommend carrying at least a .8oz trash bag you can use as a rain kilt if you get a surprising amount of rain.

–Mark

By SHR you mean Sierra High Route right, mostly cross country.

So won't you be off trail and going cross country in the high mountains … near the end of the season when its usually nice but CAN be serious, weather wise.
Given this, I don't understand agonizing over 8 oz of protective clothing. Go prepared for the worst, don't get caught in the middle of no where thinking you're gonna die … its only 8 oz.

Cape v.s. Rain suit.
again, won't you be off trail a lot? is a "cape" (poncho) really ideal for cross country travel?

I am used to hiking in areas that get a lot of rain (up to 100+ inches per year) and am used to going out where I know I will get rained on for 24-48 hours straight and when it isn't raining the humidity is 80-90% and nothing will dry. If I have a creek crossing on day 1 of a week long trip, my trail runners will be wet for the remainder of the trip even without any additional crossings or rain. From what I understand this is a completely different climate with little rain, and low humidity (i.e.- things actually dry) I am trying to get an idea on what the limits are for this environment.

I have 3 rainjackets I could take

Driducks 5.1oz
Marmot Essence 6.4oz
ID eVent 10.3oz

I also have:

Montaine Aero windshirt 2.7oz
Golite Reed rainpants 5.6oz
MLD eVent Rain Mitts 1.1oz

Obviously I am looking for the lightest combo that will get me through comfortable and safe. I will be wearing Patagonia Sol Pants (supplex nylon) as my normal hiking pants.

Thanks for your help

I have done five trips and never saw rain. I usually take a couple options and just make the call the night before based on weather.

Wind shell: arcteryx squamish goes on every trip and is used a lot

Rain gear:
Marmot mica if no rain or only light forecasted
Arcteryx sl pants and jacket if something more serious

Brad

The good news: no mosquitoes. Also, there are rarely thunderstorms. So, if an actual storm doesn't arrive, you have almost 100% chance of no precipitation, and the week-to-week weather forecasts are pretty good.

So, I'd say if the weather is looking good, meaning no chance of a storm, I'd go with no rain pants and the driducks (or even one of those cheapo plastic ponchos that weigh less than 2oz. This is assuming you have sufficient clothing to handle sub-freezing temps, which are possible in Sept. I went once when it was 20 to 21 degrees every night, though the days were simply gorgeous.

However, if the weather is iffy–as in chance of some precip or edge of a storm, etc.–I'd say batten down the hatches and bring your best foul weather gear (and have an exit strategy). And if there is a full-blown storm, of course, hit the slot machines in Reno or hang out in Lone Pine and watch Whitney rage stormily will sipping a drink in the hot tub at the old hotel on the main drag.

Somewhere I have the old newspaper clipping from Labor Day Weekend one year. A couple of young adults tried to go up the Whitney Trail. A storm hit them at Trail Camp. Everybody else bailed as the snow started to fall. The two stayed until the snow was piled up a foot deep and getting worse, and all of their gear was soaked. They abandoned their gear to make a run down, and the two bodies were recovered a thousand feet below there.

No way I would go up there in September without proper rain gear, not ponchos.

–B.G.–

I guess it boils down to your philosophy for backcountry preparation.
There seem to be two basic philosophies :
Best Case and Worst Case.

Most of the ultralighters here seem to prefer best case so they can carry less weight. As long as things go according to their "hopes" everything is fine.
I like to go light too, but coming from a mountaineering background I tend toward worst case. At least that way I know I'll survive.

I've been snowed on in the Sierras in September, even when it was unexpected.
SHR and cross country travel is a bit more difficult to escape from if the weather goes bad.

September is a "cusp" month, often beautiful, but sometimes not.

Do you feel lucky :-)

We get storms that are unexpectedly cold or heavy, not unexpectedly arriving. If a storm hits, it's been tracked for at least several days before hitting.

I was in over Paiute Pass in September or early October the year those guys died on El Cap when the storm hit. I left the mountains the day before the storm arrived because I'd known since the week before that it was coming. It was unexpectedly cold and severe, and so some people got into trouble. But we don't get sneakers in the Sierras in September–anyone who was surprised that it arrived wasn't paying attention to any weather reports.

That being said, I still consider a poncho adequate and even superior to a lot of what passes for "waterproof." A poncho is at least genuinely waterproof. I remember riding out a very heavy thunderstorm one July. I had a plastic poncho, the other guy had an expensive goretex jacket. His jacket seeped in water–either through the fabric itself or maybe the seams and/or zipper. He was very, very cold–almost dangerously cold. I was fine. A poncho will keep you dry if you wear it. The bigger issue is insulation and shelter, as well as making the right decisions (and keeping your gear dry). The people described on Whitney died because they did not bail and stood around letting all their stuff get wet.

> There seem to be two basic philosophies : Best Case and Worst Case.

I think here is also a middle ground. Light and comfortable if the conditions are as expected… Uncomfortable but safe if the worst happens. For example, I know that my quilt plus clothing let's me sleep down to around 20F happily. I have been been able to sleep uneasily down to 10F… And would survive down to maybe -10F though most like without sleep and being pretty miserable. Think EN lower vs extreme values. I attempt to predict what the conditions will be and also make a guess of the worst case. If comfort at expected has enough margin to cover the lreasonable worsed I feel like I am good.

My experience in the sierras is that we have a fair bit of warning with the worst storms. Other than these predictable storm I haven't seen the low temp be more than 20f below the reasonable predictions. Maybe I have been luckily out here. My experience in the Rockies has been much different. There I have seem the conditions change radically without warning. One trip ranged between 15f and 80f in a 60 hour period. In the Rockies I plan for larger safety margins.

Mark

"" We get storms that are unexpectedly cold or heavy, not unexpectedly arriving. ""

Are these really that different, when it comes to preparation and survival ?

Unexpected is unexpected.

Alright, here are my current thoughts. Assuming no major storms predicted, I will take my Driducks Jacket (or Marmot Essence) and Montaine windshirt, but no rain pants. If things look bad, I will take My ID eVent Jacket and Golite Reed Rainpants. I will leave the Gatewood Cape at home and use my SpinnShelter instead. Looking at the hydrology report, the rainfall totals look very low for this area, and average well under an inch for September, so the chances of me using any of this look quite slim.

As for checking the weather, how is this? Is this right? Is it really that warm at 12k right now? I generally find this reasonably accurate for the east.

National Weather Service – JMT

I agree w/ Mark on something in between best case and worst case, you can still be plenty light going that route (and usually plenty comfortable), if it is worst case- I might be uncomfortable, but not unsafe.

^ that is pretty fair weather for 12,000' :)

I think it makes a huge difference whether a storm is coming or not. When no storm is coming, there is no risk of precipitation and so rain or snow needn't be worried about in preparation.

If a storm is coming, it is necessary to be prepared for a wide range of conditions and have an exit/contingency plan. Actually, if one is certainly coming, I'd skip the trip–I'd only make plans if the possibility of the fringes of one might be a factor–if a September storm is due during a planned trip to the high country, I'd cancel the trip.

This is one of the great things about September. July, for example, is much more unpredictable because of the thunderstorms. They can build locally and be quite unexpected on a daily basis. In September, if there are no actual storm fronts approaching, there is virtually no risk of precipitation.

Brad… sorry if this is too much of a tangent… but this thread has really gotten me to formalize something that has up til now been in the back of my head. I have seen three approached:

1) Expect the worst. This approach is especially needed for people who are committed to their hike no matter what. This commitment might be due to personal convictions, a sense of obligation… like money spent to take the trip, or the inability to exit. For these sorts of trips, you have to be prepared to survive the worst that could happen given the location you are in. I think this is why folks like Andrew Skurka don't have lists that ounce counters love. This is the approach I grew up with. It's not what I do most of the time because I am prepared to take an early exit if a storm I am not prepared for is on the way… and I have a warning that one of the really nasty storms is coming in the sierras. [There are other parts of the country that I would most likely continue to take this approach. There are also times I wait for the storm (worst = expected) because I want to test myself or my gear in worse case situations]

If I was going to take this approach fall time in the sierra I would most likely take insulation that would keep me safe to -10F, full on rain gear, and a shelter I could manage a 1ft snow drop in. There is at least one early storm in the fall. Typically no earlier than mid-Oct I think, but I am pretty sure I remember one as early as Sept.

2) Expect the best. We have all met people who did this. Sometimes they are ok. Sometimes they get into trouble. Rarely, they die. I don't recommend this, though I have done this on trips where I had early exits that would only take a few hours to execute.

An example of this are people who just bring just windshirts in the early fall, or maybe just a DWR bivy or a ground sheet + emergency blanket. The thinking goes "it almost never rains, and when it does, it tends to be short lived. The humidity is low enough that if you get wet, you will be able to dry out pretty quickly."

3) Expect local "normal", be prepared for local bad. This is the approach I take now. My experience in the sierras is that you can have "local" issues. The rain / hail storms which sometimes hit, typically in late afternoon, the semi-common 40F day/night temp difference, plus the occasional 20F difference between what was expected in a given hour/location (assuming 6F per 1k ft). I plan for these. Unique local change can exceed these by a bit, but typically not a huge amount. We also can have storm fronts which can change the weather much more than this. I don't recall less than 1 day warning that one of these storms is coming to the central sierras, and often we have many days warning. So I plan for the local "normal". If it looks like a storm might develop / arrive during my trip, I either plan for the storms conditions rather than the current (lots of weather sensors we can access) / "normal", postpone the trip, or start the trip but make a commitment to take an early exit if the storm is imminent. On these trips I will carry a radio and I pay attention to my barometer.

This approach means that I don't actually finalize my gear until I am at the trailhead assuming I had what I think are reasonable exits. No early exit, I switch to prepared for the worst.

–mark

no idea about the sierras … but in the PNW …

IMO "bomber" rain gear isn't all that it's cracked up to be … on normal trips any well constructed rain jacket that survives a shower test should be effectively waterproof when yr standing still … the difference is when when yr moving or doing a multitude of other things, youll sweat in it and water will come in through the openings regardless …

ive been soaking wet in dead bird "bomber" jackets and totally dry in ponchos … it all depends on the situation and use …

they key IMO is to have clothing that can deal with moisture, something that still provides insulation when damp, and can be dried with body heat

i dont think anyone who moves at a decent pace with a pack going uphill/downhill in continuous in day after day rain will stay "dry"

if anything else the inevitable slips and falls in the mud will get you ….

I normally don't cancel trips due to weather, hence why I have done trips where it has rained 7 inches in 48 hours, postholed through a foot of snow, spent nights in single digits and high winds, and forded flash flood swollen fast moving waist high creek crossings in January. I did however wuss out on two trips last winter because of snow where I didn't think I could handle 24" of snow without snow shoes, and moved a few others to lower elevations with less snow. I always adjust my gear to the weather forecast right before a trip as it might be 40* one night and in single digits the next, and will do the same for this trip. I am just trying to get a baseline gear list together and I can add gear as the conditions warrant.

My approach for baseline is to find the weather station that is closest to the conditions I expect (similar elevation and side of mountain). Most often I use the data from Tioga Pass @10k as my starting point. You can select historically data going back almost 10 years. Select the date range in previous years for your future trip. That will give you a good starting point.

Mark,
This is a great way of looking at questions like this. Normally everyone gives their two cents along the lines of one of these three approaches. It may look like there are huge diasagreements based on the seemingly random answers. In reality, it is all about which approach people take and that is where the real discussion should occur. Kudos.

Thanks for the link Mark

I would opt for Driducks top and Reed bottoms.

Not to hijack this thread, but:

John, my daughter just wandered by, saw your avatar pic, said, "that's from UP" and then asked if you were from Paradise Falls.

lol Steven. I saw the movie for the first time last week and thought it was great. But I live in Dallas, TX really : )