SoftShell Jacket Suggestions?

While Hiking? I use OR Tremor pants. Tough and warm, but has huge thigh vents for higher exertion.

I also use the OR contour windshirt- its a thin softshell pullover, though. Not a 'hard' windshirt. this over SW lightweights gets it for me. if its really cold I'll add a thin MB vest under the Contour

I'm starting to be an OR pimp. (which is a tough sell here cause it ain't light)- I guess pimpin' AIN'T easy

I stick to the thinner softshell jackets without any microfleece lining or windblock membrane. They are still air permeable to a certain degree and have a quicker dry time. I can adjust my underlayers to suit the temp but the shell stays the same.

Patagonia Ready Mix Jacket and Pants

Polyester with welded seams, 14oz, very water resistant, quick drying, breathable. Wish someone with the skills could buy this fabric and make all kinds of pants and jackets. This was replaced by the Ascensionist which is heavier, bulkier, with a bigger fit.

Patagonia Traverse Jacket and pants

Polyester and Spandex fabric, 11oz, very stretchy and breathable, great for aerobic usage. Wish I had bought the pullover when they were available. Pants are good too but rode up on my calves and stayed there like high-waters.

Also check out the Rab Alpine Pull-On. Looks like a great piece.

currently I am using the rab alpine pullover combined with a patagonia r1 hoody. I haven't used this combination a lot yet (winter is just starting), but I used something similar in the past and was very happy. Somewhat similar is what I used the last few years, a Rab Vapor Rise Jacket.

I don't like any of the membrane based softshells… don't breath well enough. I have found most of the stretch woven softshells don't have enough wind protection for my torso (seem good in pants). So I generally recommend a shell (or shell integrated with light pile) that has a bit of air permeability.

–Mark

The Patagonia Talus jacket is a great choice for colder conditions, methinks. They have a light fleece interior–maybe 1/4" nap–and a semi-permeable membrane. This makes it perceptibly windproof, but with a bit of airflow to prevent moisture buildup. Double napoleon pockets are super handy, and the sleeves are long enough for my frame. They are cut so that the cuff angles to cover the back of the hand, and the cuffs themselves are adjustable. I'm 6'-1", 160lbs, and a medium fits very well with a baselayer and light fleece underneath. The cut is so good it looks fitted.

woven …. double weave, schoeller dryskin, etc …

it still has to be pretty cold to use a softshell going on a steep uphill gradient with a 20+ lb pack

i wont wear a membrane softshell unless its 0F or lower … and even then you can easily overheat

I don't even know what temps I can use membrane softshells in. The only one I have is OR Mithril with Venetia membrane and it get stuffy quick. I just use it around town.

The Contour is just woven. Its a Cordura IIRC. Its OK in the wind and doesn't get too hot because of the 1/2 zip. I have had to take it off and just go with merino base and a light vest to snare the wind because it got too hot. But for the 40 and 30's I can use it often. And those temps are all winter in the hills here.

I'm trying to see the advantages of a softshell jacket vs a light windshell over a base layer or over a base/mid layer

is it weight? weight wise R1 + Houdini = 14-ish ounces and should be warmer than a lot of the lighter softshells, it's also two pieces that give you more versatility

the DWR on the Houdini is pretty good, can't see it being much better on a softshell (maybe it is???)

thanks

mike … one reason … abrasion

in the old days a softshell was just a pile and pertex jacket … it was never meant to be the fancy yuppie jackets we see today … you were meant to get damp in it eventually … you just lived with it and it would dry out as yr body heat would push the moisture out … kind of like paramo …

then some yupppie came out with the bright idea to make them more water resistant … and thus reducing the breathability, missing the entire point …

the only true softshells today are the pertex/pile, driclime, and woven ones … some would argue paramo as well

yr houdini and R1 is basically a pile and pertex in 2 layers ….

i personally think that softshells are, or are going to be obsolete in the not too distant future … event or it successors will breath just as well as many softshells, and be waterproof to boot …

ahhh gotcha- thanks :)

and switched to a polar stretch hoodie that i pair with a wild things epic hooded windshirt. the hoodie is highly breathable, but alone has no wind protection. when the windshirt is added you get a very high wind/water resistance with much better breathability than a membrane softshell.

for my bottom-half i love my cloudveil rayzar scholler dryskin pants. they would be perfect if they had full side zips.

i'm very comfortable in the picture below at about -10*, with winds around 25 mph, wearing mammut dri release base layer, polar stretch hoodie, windshirt, running tights and rayzar pants. high aerobic activity and no moisture build-up. i did add additional insulation when we stopped to melt water.

So I have the OR Frostline which is pile and Pertex but I get too hot hiking in it. Thats why I go LW base + Contour. I sacrifice a little protection for breath-ability. The rain so far hasn't been bad enough to really overload the Contour and I've stayed dry.

Is the frostline just a thicker nap than what you and Verber are talkin about, or is it my sweaty bastarditis?

jeff …. if you ever go hiking in the rockies at 0-10F days im sure the frostline would be an awesome softshell from its description

of course there's no reason why you cant get the same with a pertex windshirt and a light fleece …

my most used softshells so far this winter so far is my $50 MH chockstone weave softshell …

i've got 3 membrane softshells that just sit on the rack (2 of them fancy yuppie dead birds) … the only time im using those is if the temp never rises above 0F … or as rock climbing belay jackets

sadly enough i bought into the softshell hype when everybody was getting their arcteryx gammas … polartec powershield …

lesson learned …. just because some "respected", and likely sponsored, climbers claim something is da bomb … doesnt mean it is

i notice this even with the blogs most people frequent … how many times have you seen a bad review? … especially when the manuf provides the gear for testing ?

good softshell weave pants on the other hand ARE da bomb … one purchase i dont regret

Im not a huge fan of soft shell jackets, wear them only round town. At least for me the warmth to weight ratio just isnt there.

On the other hand i just did pick up some beyond clothing soft shell pants and they are awesome.

I can also recommend the rab vapour rise or alpine pull on – great stuff, I'm very happy to have it

I am going to start looking toward the end of the winter when the sales hit. That's what I did for my current setup:

Hiking- BPL Hoody, Columbua Light Fleece Zip Pullover and maybe a Thermawrap Vest. 20s-30s.

In Camp- Cap 3, TerraMar Zip Pullover, MontBell Down Inner Parka and either Thermawrap Vest or my Avalanche Fleece jacket. 10-20s.

Again- I was comfy and still had tons of mobility. Always size-up on outerlayers. I Want to replace the fleece with a lightweight softshell. MontBell al;ways scares me; too easy to tear, and I am a monster when it comes to "fragile" things.

Please keep them coming.

How much should a good softshell jacket weigh? Mine weighs 19oz and is from Avalanche Wear. Very Happy with it as well. Is that decent?

A softshell will weigh roughly between 12 and 20 ounces depending on size and features. I have Marmot Leadville that I use as my primary moving-insulation while backcountry skiing which weighs about 18 oz in size large.

My upper body kit for a day in the b.c. on my splitboard is as follows:

Merino Hoody
Softshell
Windshirt or rain shell
Puffy coat for rest stops

Hi Sam,
I'm just wondering if you wear a 'size up' on the wind-shirt and rain shell to fit over your 'puffy coat', or not?

Of course it depends on how puffy your coat is, but I can see advantages and disadvantages to either way. A wind-shirt over a quilted puffy jkt will add to its warmth, particularly in high winds. Ski-touring in Scotland (on my side of the pond) you could definitely be faced with heavy rain yet it be cold enough to necessitate a puffy coat! Of course a size up is heavier and when not worn with the puffy jacket underneath flapping and snagging are likely to occur.

Oliver
(Not John! I hope BPL will sort this error out soon!)

that's dependent on the manufacturer you are going with. there are a number gear makers that anticipate layering and have designed into their garment sizing that one will be layered over the other so that you keep the size you order the same. in some instances you actually have to size-down to get a garment to fit closer that was designed to go on over layers. it's great when you can find a manufacturer that has a consistent fit *model* so that you know what you are gonna get when you order an item.

I use TNF Cipher Hooded soft shell for 95% of my backcountry skiing. It is partly stretchy breathable stuff and part gore windstopper. So far it has worked very well. I'm not sure the exact weight of mine, but if I remember right it is about 16 oz.

I wear the following clothing from skin-out

Baselayer (always worn)
Softshell
Windshirt (or hardshell conditionally dependent)
Puffy (only worn while at rest)

Note the puffy goes on TOP of everything else. Softshell and windshirt are sized athletically to maximize heat-retention with minimal space between layers.

I derived my winter clothing layering system from the superb resource by Mark Twight entitled Extreme Alpinism. Aside from the terribly dated title the book is about as fine a publication as one can find for fast and light mountain tactics. It focuses a lot on alpine climbing but the knowledge applies well to hiking, backpacking, and skiing as well.

BPL member Dave Chenault wrote a timely blog post that references his softshell as a keystone piece in his winter ski touring get-up.

Read What I wore this past Saturday on the Bedrock and Paradox blog.

Thanks. I was just imagining you (Sam) wearing your puffy on cold descents where you might also want to throw a shell over it to protect it from damage (but that might be an unlikely scenario – I forget how sweat inducing ski descents are.)

I've read that Mark Twight is a notable critic of the 3 layer system. I'll put Extreme Alpinism on my to-read list.

While my powershield jacket didn't work out, the new Powershield Pro fabric looks pretty good if Polartec's marketing is to be believed. I think that only the North Face Kishtwar uses this stuff so far.