Kooka Bay NeoAir equivalent as warm, durable for weight?

Hey EJ,

Not answering your question, but I wanted to chime in and say that I never had any problem with my KookaBay pad leaking. I had one of the down pads. Very well constructed.

One of the nice things about a Kookabay is that I believe Bender will make a double for you if you ask (instead of having to try to kludge together two single pads). Can't get that from Thermarest!

Take care,

Doug

I am also interested in some first-hand info on these pads. The website is not at all filled with info regarding their product. I had to do some digging to find out you need a pump to inflate the down filled mattress and lose a lot of the R-value when you switch to the synthetic filled version. I would also like to know of anyone out there that has the synthetic KookaBay pads, and how well they work. I like the idea that they can be custom made, but if I can't get any real info on them, I probably will look at other options.

Robert, while I've never used the Kooka Bay pads myself, I've heard lots of good things about them for quite a while from many BPL members, and I like to support cottage makers (so long as it's not at the expense of bad products and customer service). I'm just trying to get feedback and more information to decide on:

a) for 3 season, a NeoAir regular or the Kooka Bay equivalent

b) for 4 season, a Kooka Bay down pad (and figure out how much down fill to order) or an Exped 7.

I have a Kooka Bay synthetic mat. Dimensions 60x20x2.5" mummy R4. It is made of the lighter 30D fabric and weighs 9.5 oz. I have only used it for two nights in the field and so can't really comment about durability. Also temps were much warmer than I expected. However it looks well made and is was very comfy. The potential area of weakness to me looks like where the valve is bonded into the fabric, but Bender tells me he hasn't had any problems. I used it with one of Suluk46's thin foam ground sheets and a MLD bivy. Having the thin foam mattress made me feel a lot more confident that I wasn't going to put a hole in it. Overall I have been very pleased to date with my Kooka Bay mat, but would need to put a lot more nights on it to give a full review..

have never used the kooka, so i can only comment on the neo

– very comfortable as long as you stay on the pad … best ive tried yet for side sleeping
– narrow, so hopefully you have some way to secure the the quilt/bag to the pad
– good insulation, i have tried using it alone down to 15F .. at that point it gets cool … i think youll be fine with yr foamy in addition
– not so bad to inflate, biatch to deflate …
– no punctures yet, but id carry a small repair kit with 1-2 patches
-some people dont fully inflate theirs … i always fully inflate mine, i find it warmer and more comfortable that way

although cascade designs isnt a cottage manuf, the neos are made in seattle, USA … and should you buy from REI, its essentially a riskless purchase

Bender makes custom mats that are similar to neo air. They are not listed on his website.

I know this because I just did an email exchange with him last week asking the exact same question.

He has 2.5" and 3.5 inch pads with no, synthetic, or down and can make up to a r9 900 fill down pad.

I purchased the pad most similar to the neo air large from him.

You really need to shoot him an email and ask all your specific questions. In short he can pretty much make anything you want.

FYI the r4 pads he makes are almost twice as warm as the neo air according to him (when I asked the question).

Also the pads on his website are not constructed like the custom pads. He does some different type of bonding (He told me what was different but I forgot exactly what it was so I don't want to mislead) but anyway whatever it is that he does eliminates the possible cold spots.

I think he might be on vacation though, as I haven't heard back from him this week.

Thanks, very helpful. I should have mentioned – we are both primarily side sleepers, as well as everything sleepers too – so whatever we use has to work for side sleeping.

Not too keen on linking pads especially for winter for the simple reason that my wife is a champion sprawler, and shared quilt/bag = drafts drafts drafts. And if she's cold, she can be quite dangerous. Also, I like to make as much of our gear as modular as possible, so if I have a friend I'd like to bring along who doesn't have any gear, especially someone who is visiting from out of town, he can use my wife's.

For 3 season when using the GG Gorilla pack, the Gorilla SitLight pad specs are:

Weight

1.4 oz. (37 g.)
Dimensions

10 x 19 x ¾ in. (25 x 48 x 2 cm.)
NOTE: sizes may vary by up to ½ in. (1.3 cm.)
Convoluted – ¾ in. thickness is a ¼ in. (0.6 cm.) base plus ½ in. (1.3 cm.) of convolutions (bumps)
Material

Closed cell cross-linked EVA polyolefin foam

For side sleepers, if the shelter has room for it, do you recommend going with a wider pad (say 24-5 in.) instead of a 20 in. pad, in a slightly shorter size (say 60 or 66 in. instead of my typical 72 in.?

EJ …

side sleep …. the only time ive really had a problem is when in a wide no zipper bivy and a neo air … my bag slides wonky on the pad sometimes when i toss and turn

if yr in a real shelter i dont think its much of an issue … i cant back sleep on the neo though as my arms fall off the pad on either side … im 5.7" 170 lbs and broad chested

what i would suggest is to try/buy one at rei and try it out …. im think itll work for your wife as she;s likely less broad that you (assumption!!!) … for side sleep the neo feels just like a bed at home …

LOL she's the narrower of us with me at with a 42-43 in. chest. I'd be terrified to share a backpacking quilt with her – I'd wake up shivering at one point with her wrapped in that thing like a hot dog in a bun. She's a heat-seeking sleep robot. And we're both sprawlers.

We'll be in either a tent or a mid of some kind like a Trailstar or Supermid.

I can and have slept on CCF pads in the army and in the Boy Scouts, but that doesn't mean I want to use them alone anymore. A good night's sleep is worth every ounce.

Love to hear from anyone that has tried both a NeoAir and a Kooka Bay equivalent to a NeoAir, or from a Kooka Bay user who has tried it in various conditions.

I have used both, although my Kooka Bay is longer (60" Mummy x 3.5" and weighs 14.9 oz. w/ down fill). Of course my feet hang off, but this is by design, as it allows the bag to fully loft under them and is comfortable on my back. There is no comparison in warmth and the 3.5" is noticeably cushier. The short NeoAir has worked fine for me on snow in the summertime w/ an 1/8" cc pad on top and pack under the feet.

Has he been answering your emails?

I'm contemplating between the two as well. With a Kooka, customization is possible. With the neoair, there is no wait and you have Cascade designs to whine to if anything goes wrong.

And, maybe someone can answer this question for me: would a 2" pad be noticeably lighter or less warm? And can you have a 70d bottom and a 30d top?

I have a Neo Air short and a custom Kooka Bay that is 48" long insulated to R 4 which weighs 12 oz with synthetic insulation. I switched because I went to a quilt. I slept on it 21 nights with temps down to the high 20's. I usually sleep in running shorts and a light T. It was great.
I went with the KB because I thought it's fabric would feel warmer under the quilt. It did. Bender was great to work with and he makes a great product.

I have a Kooka Bay short r4 syn filled and NeoAir short 48×20. From what I have read the NeoAir should be r2.5. I don't think a KB without fill will give that R value. I wanted a bit more R value so I purchased a KB from Bender. I have only used it once so far but it seems very warm and very comfortable. I also have some foam pads to under the pad and over the pack for my legs. My KB is 13 ounces and the NA is 9 ounces. My CCF pads are 2, 4 and 5.5 ounces with R values of about .4, .8 and whatever the common blue gives. I like both but use them differently.

Scott, how are you thinking of configuring your NeoAir equivalent?

Carl what's the advantage of the synthetic fill over the down? That you can blow it up yourself instead of using an inflating device?

In general, with winter and 3 season inflatables, I like the idea of combining some sort of CCF pad, short in 3 season (perhaps as small as the GG SitLight pad) and longer in winter, together with the inflatable for an extra margin of safety. In case the inflatable goes and it's difficult to repair, you have the CCF. This is the approach I've used for winter.

David, what kind of fabric on the Kooka Bay makes it more comfortable?

For 3 season use we plan to go with a quilt. May make sense to then get an inflatable that's a little warmer than the NeoAir.

For winter, sleeping bag to cut out drafts and for the extra margin of warmth and comfort.

EJ-
I've got a few kookabay pads in the 30D material that is a heat sealable nylon. The fabric, I think, simply warms to the skin faster than other fabrics. It's not slick like silnylon and doesnt slide around on tent floors.

Thanks Travis. Which size/fill/weight/shape do you have, what conditions have you used them in and what's your sleep system like?

Thanks all for the helpful feedback – I just emailed Bender guidelines based on your comments.

The Neo Air felt slightly clammy on my skin.

Thanks David – what do you use under your legs to keep things relatively even with your upper body?

I think that you may find drop off less of a problem than imagined. Most people don't inflate their mats any where near to full capacity. Obviously this will vary from person to person.

I use either an Ohm or a Swift with a GG pad in them. I really don't notice the drop off.