has anyone seen this pad before?

[James holden]

they can give an r value with an en-rated 30 F bag …. and another one with a 20F bag

i can claim anything i want but until i back it up with cold hard facts its all spin …

and no "testimonials" arent a substitute … you hear those testimonials all the time on informercials

at the end of the day all a pad does is insulate you from the ground, hopefully at low bulk and weight, and in comfort

without quantification of that value … its all mumbo jumbo

like silver wires in speakers … lol

[Aaron Reichow]

I have my doubts that the reason for their hesitation to publish the R-Value is because of the complexity added by loft in the cut-outs. I don't see why they can't just publish the R-value for the actual pad, both filled with argon and bog standard air. If argon is 67% as conductive as air, the difference may not be that great.

I've not passed judgment on this personally, but I'm guessing that there's a good reason when a company which appears to be using the angle that they make super-technical products for super-technical people chooses not to publish the technical details.

Sounds like Klymit is actually producing goods, which gives them a leg up over the many other new gear makers who have come before with big promises but ended up not delivering any finished product.

[Michael Fogarty]

Love my Neo Air, but still hate inflating and deflating the these type of pads. On my next Spring weekend trip, I'm going to try and use a Z-rest short with my pack under my feet. It probably won't work for me as I have not slept well in the past using a closed cell pad.

[Aaron Reichow]

Inflating a Neoair isn't that bad- use a pump! I use a super easy MYOG pump that does other stuff for me as well. Weighs 1-2 oz and had doubled as packcover, groundcloth, part of my bearbag setup, stuff sack and/or pack liner.

[chris kersten]

Klymit, just send me a pad and I'll test it and post the results.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

The X Frame should be quite painless to inflate since it requires a lot less air than NeoAir. Klymit says it takes 2-4 breaths, whereas a full length NeoAir takes about 14 deep breaths and a small NeoAir takes ~9 deep breaths. The X Frame is thinner (1.5" vs. 2.5") and has all those cutouts, so the air volume required is much less.

[Nate Alder]

Based on our considerable research we are not aware of any standard or ASTM testing method for ground pads. We have contacted Kansas State University environmental lab and we were told the hot plate method used to determine R-value varies from manufacture to manufacture changing methods to improve results. Variables like air movement in the chamber is varied to affect the results in a more favorable way depending on what the manufacturer is trying to accomplish.

Based upon our conversations with Kansas State, we favor the method of using a mannequin for testing as opposed to a hot plate as it more closely simulates the weight distribution of a person sleeping on the ground displacing air support of pads at pressure points adversely affecting its performance in those areas which has less negative effect on the Inertia X Frame (IXF) as it is the only pad that uses higher pressure for support and comfort. We think this would be a better approach and it should be standardized so everyone does it the exact same way using a mannequin simulating a true camping/sleeping experience, rather than one small square section of a pad with no weight on it.

Also, we were told that the temperature at Kansas State lab is limited to close to freezing which may show comparable results for two separate pads, when in reality one of the two would perform better at colder temperatures. Some manufactures have attempted to manipulate the test standards to show their pad performing under more adverse conditions. All of which is to say, there is no current absolute standard and the industry desperately needs one.

As for our pad, the Inertia X Frame (IXF) it is an effective 3 season pad very comparable in warmth to other pads in our category based on our extensive lab and field testing and that of the thousands of people using our pads now. We have positioned it also as a second pad for deep winter camping to keep a foam pad off the ground for effective snow camping. While it is subjective as we have not done mannequin testing in a lab yet, we have done hot plate testing and field testing and have anecdotally proven the effectiveness of loft pockets which allow the sleeping bags fibers to loft into the void creating a more effective convective heat trap than is found in inflatable pads that do not have dead air generating fiber down or foam.

For those of you who might be thinking of placing an order, we have free shipping for the holidays and also the option to get a free baselayer with your order, check out the website for more details.

[James holden]

I would suggesting the tests you do have … Facts speak a lot louder than claims

as someone said extraordinairy claims require extraordinary evidence

[Nate Alder]

Jason claims a very good personal experience: http://www.adventureworldmagazineonline.com/gear/klymit-inertia-x-frame-pad/

[Aaron Sorensen]

Okay,
So I ordered one of these the second I saw it at BPL OR Day 1.
I got it in the mail and got a chance to use it already.

First things first. I sleep like a rock on my back and don't move an inch all night. I have fallen asleep with books and even a soda can on top of me and wake up in the morning with them still in place.

Next, I usually sleep without a tent if it's not raining so I have the hardest time not getting holes in my inflatable pads. For this reason, I always use my 1/8" X 24" X 72" 2 ounce pad under the inflatable.

I also only weigh 160 and I can actually over inflate it orally.

All of these combinations makes this pad perfect for me. I am also big into adventure running and usually use my Osprey Talon 11 for 2 to 3 day trips and I need everything to fit. This pad ROCKS! At least it does if you are a still back sleeper…
I just folded it over twice before rolling it up and ended up storing it in my fabric sunglass case. That is how small this thing rolls up.

So if you don't like it, maybe you just don't get it; Or maybe it just doesn't get you?

[Casey Bowden]

Thanks Aaron, it's nice to read a review from someone who I know (or feel like I know after years of reading your posts). I wish I could all night on my back like you.

[James Marco]

As a long time Neoair user, I will say that the X-Frame is very atractive.
1) Weight is very attractive, as always
2) Performance, both definitive (raw tests) and subjective.
3) Size
4) Durability/reliability

Lately, I have been been increasingly disapointed with my neoairs due to problems with reliability and performance. I have had 4 pads. 2 have had problems, and, neither was a puncture which I was anticipating. (Ballooning: ie delaminination of one or more cores. And, general fabric leaks in multiple spots.) Both failures effected performance, but, neither was catastrophic. But, they cost money. Money to buy, money in my time spent to have them serviced.

So, I am considering other options as a disastified customer.

Yes, I would also like a more definitive test, not a subjective one. Perhaps a table of several 3 or 4 tests would be the easiest to assimilate. One alone, one with a 0C bag, one with a 3/8" foam on top of the pad.

Subjective tests are usually positive. What they "don't say" is more difficult to pick out than "what they say." But, I know how to swallow a pill.

Given Klymit's interest in body maping, a manikin test would be acceptable. I understand about "wiggle" room in tests… And I understand about real world performance as opposed to lab performance.

Soo, get on with the tests. I will be waiting for the results! In my book, anything close to a thermorest guidelite would still be good ;-)

jdm

[Jerry Adams]

I got the Thermarest Prolite a year ago

New model which replaced the Prolite 3

The Prolite weighs 16 ounces, only an ounce more than neoair, 1 inch thick, $100.

I used the Guidelight for years, still works fine, but it weighs almost twice as much

I've use the Prolite about 60 nights without any problems

[kevperro .]

It looks like something a clown would make out of a balloon.

After looking at all the new options, I'll stick with my 1" Thermarest. The things have 30+ years of field testing and they work well with minimal failures.

But good luck with the cutting edge. There has to be someone willing to fold balloons in the hopes of finding a better widget otherwise we would all be sleeping on blue foam.

[Nate Alder]

James Marco,
You bring up a very valid point, so Matt and I made this video for you today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrpBcEiTHXQ

[James Marco]

Thanks Nate!
Yeah, it looks really durable, The overinflating held up well.
Ofcourse, this just brings up more questions… bursting pressure,for example. Highest usable pressure, for another. But we can skip those for now. Funny how answering one question just makes more… It is a good pad, and my qualms about this (due to the large number of cutouts in the material) have been much allayed with this video.

Still waiting for the thermal resistance tests. Have you checked with any house insulators in your area? They often have IR spectrum guns for checking the insulation they put in. If you have a couple sheets of plywood set up on pads, they might do a scan really inexpensively. Coupled with a camera, for later study, of course.

Thanks again, Nate! And pass this along to Matt, too!
jdm

[Jeremy Platt]

Thanks for the Video Nate, I think that will go a long way to answering questions of durability. Spending a cold night on the ground thanks to a punctured neo air on my last hike, has given me a good exuse to finally give the x-frame a try. Hopefully it gives me the same durability as my last prolite (4+ yrs).

P.S. Nice jumping technique

[Nate Alder]

James, Jeremy,

Glad you guys liked the video. Good catch on the burst pressure, I thought Matt had mentioned it in the video, but I just wrote it in a caption just in case now and have re-posted the video with that, and actual footage of him jumping on the pad with the psi gauge attached to show the spike in pressure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoG__iKhJlM

The burst pressure of the Inertia X Frame (IXF) is over 10psi (most of the time over 12psi) and the Dry Air Pump used to pressurize the IXF has a max output of 8psi which is more than you will ever need. As a frame of reference it is the same psi as a basketball
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_psi_for_a_basketball says:
According to NBA Rule 1, Section B, Article 6a:

" The ball shall be an officially approved NBA ball between 7 1 /2 and 8 1 /2 pounds pressure. "

Matt demos the pad at 4psi and jumps on the pad to gain a spike pressure of about 6.2psi, not even close to its burst pressure. So in a nut shell, the chances of you popping an IXF are very slim, you have to really try hard and probably use an air compressor to do it.

Regarding the R-value, please reference the comment above that I put about Kansas State, creating an industry testing standard etc. We are looking at building a testing system and using a local environmental chamber we used for some lab testing of our argon vests that goes down to negative -30. It may be a while before we get a chance to do that test with a mannequin, but as soon as we get it all worked out we will for sure post the results of that test on our website. I think you will be very impressed with how warm you will stay on the IXF even on a very cold night.

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