Sawyer Gravity Filter

Rob,

Actually, the answer is maybe.

The pore size of the plastic hollow tubes inside the Sawyer filter will strain out any large particles from the water and any organic nasties that can get you sick….just not viruses, unless you have that model designed for that.

Anything that is disolved at the molecular level will not be screen out by the filter.

The 1st time I used the Sawyer filter was in the snow at a pond filled with fallen trees and rotting vegetation. The water had a greenish brown color to it and came out that way after running thru the filter.

All of us drank about 3-4 liters of this water and none of us got sick. (Four of us on that trip).

When I was at REI the weekend from returning from that trip, a Sawyer rep told me that you can even put in electrolyte powder into dirty water and run it through the filter and you would still have the electroylte drink because it would be disolved at the molecular level and would pass through the pores in the filter, but blocking out the bacteria and nasties that can get you sick.

I have not tried that experiment, but after 3 years of using the same Sawyer filter…..my family and I have never gotten sick.

Also, the Sawyer filter does NOTHING to improve the taste of the water, which is the only potential negative that I see with the system.

Fortunately for me, I backpack mostly in the Sierras, so the water quality/taste is usually great.

If the taste of the water was bad, I would toss in a NUUN tablet or some sort of drink powder.

Hope that helps.

-Tony

I carry a 60 ml syringe (1.25 oz) when I carry my SAWYER SP125/SP135 – PURIFIER. I have placed a small 3.0 cm piece of tubing at its end so to connect with the SP125/SP135. The reply to my QUESTION(S) came from John T. Smith, SAWYER.

NOTE: SAWYER has changed their nomenclature of their products in the past two years .…. FILTER SP121 now SP161 and PURIFIER SP125 now SP135.

QUESTION(S):

1. Is the SP161 filter /SP135 purifier filter fully field maintainable?
It can be serviced in the field by flowing water backwards through the filter at a 4 PSI greater pressure than the forward pressure.

2. How is back flushing accomplished without faucet adapter?
You will need a collapsible bladder like the Nalgene collapsible canteen or a bladder like a shower bag.

3. Can a syringe be used to backflush either SP161 /SP135.
60 ML syringe should work also.

.

4. If addition equipment is needed, what is required and where can I purchase?
Nalgene products are available at most camping stores and so are shower bags.

5. In the field if back flushing is needed, how much clean water do you recommend for this operation to restore flow?
Backwash until the water runs clear, usually about a quart

Please see here for an update of my setup:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=21537&startat=100

After checking out the reviews I got my sawyer zero two set up with a bomb proof pressurized Geigerrig Hydration bladder. The Geigerrig pushes the water through the filter in line so no need for gravity setups or anything else for that matter. Fist pic is setup, 2nd is steady flow pushing 1 ft up against gravity.

This is great to see this Sawyer-GEIGERRIG set up. Since GEIGERRIG won 3Ms best new product award for the 2011 Winter Outdoor Retailer show, the filtration companies have been hopping. GEIGERRIG has their own in-line filter that is designed to snap into the drink tube, but Katadyn, Sawyer and other filtration companies have been designing in-line filters for some time but with marginal results. The problem is that the hydration packs require the user to suck in order to get at the water. With the GEIGERRIG engine, the in-line filters now have a very compatible on-the-go pump. The GEIGERRIG hydration packs just push the water through the filters. And the large slide top makes them very easy to refill and to turn inside out for cleaning in the top shelf of the dishwasher or for rinsing out and hanging to dry in a tree.

Mike Atkinson, Former Navy SEAL and Owner of Trident Tactical/Technical, said “Other than ammunition, radios and weapons, water can be the heaviest thing we carry. And, it has so many necessary uses. The GEIGERRIG system finally makes it easy to access, use, and share the water while also getting the hands-free benefit of a hydration pack. The plug-and-play, on-the-go, in-line filtration unit is on the money. Greater access to water… Much easier use of water… A pressurized spray… All without additional weight or any sacrifice of capacity in your pack. It looks like a no-brainer. It was my product of choice as well–for both the Shot Show and Outdoor Retailer show.”

Hey Bob Tell me more since you are obviously close to this product. Where does the pressure come from?

Weight? Filter micron rating?

In full disclosure, I work for GEIGERRIG. Thanks for your interest. I know that it can sometimes be unpalatable for companies to post on blog sites. I hope that I am not overstepping my bounds. I just thought it was cool to see the Sawyer – GEIGERRIG configuration. That said, I would be happy to answer your question about the pressure. Again, thanks for the interest.

[There is a good video on Youtube: "Geigerrig Hydration Pack: Constant Pressure". It demonstrates much of what is discussed below.]

GEIGERRIG has a patent pend. pressurization system that is very simple and provides a very reliable, consistent and powerful spray.

Instead of 2 outer walls of polyurethane, the GEIGERRIG has one additional sheet of polyurethane welded right down the middle. This creates two separate compartments, separated by a flexible wall. One compartment is filled with water while the second compartment is pressurized with air using a small pressurization bulb similar to the one that is used with a blood pressure cuff.

By separating the air chamber from the water chamber, you get a uniform application of pressure over a very large surface area of the water, thus stabilizing the water mass even as the water is depleted from the pack. Also, because the pressurizing air is inserted into a second chamber, this prevents the pressurizing air from ever engaging the drink tube and subsequently depressurizing the system. When air is inserted directly into the water chamber, it creates a scenario similar to what you would experience if you filled a balloon half with water and half with air – The water mass slams around inside the balloon. Also, it is nice to keep the pressurizing gas or air separate from the water – its cleaner. Kind of disgusting when people blow air back into their hydration pack and then offer you a drink.

Bottom line, you get a very consistent, reliable, clean, high pressure spray this way.

Accordingly it facilitates in-line filtration, sharing water without a requirement to suck on nasty bite valves, and spraying water for field hygiene and cleaning off gear.

It is a very clean, reliable system. The extra sheet of polyurethane and the pressurizing bulb are very light weight and generate very little in the way of additional cost.

Additionally, the GEIGERRIG pressurized system is configured so that it can be turned inside out for cleaning in the top shelf of the dish washer or for field rinsing and hanging to dry in a tree.

Lots of info at http://www.GEIGERRIG.com.

Cool. Thanks. You are good here given full disclosure. Welcome.
The big questions here will be how much does it weigh and how much does it cost.

Thanks for the question about the GEIGERRIG filter and for indulging the comments of a person who actually works for GEIGERRIG.

The GEIGERRIG filter is essentially a reconfigured, repackaged Frontier pro that is discussed by Rob H above. (I don't know Rob H, and this is my first time posting at backpacking light.) The GEIGERRIG filter removes 99.9% of Giardia and 99.9% of Crypto and bacteria.

There are filters that use various holes to filter the water, but the GEIGERRIG filter and Frontier Pro use a coconut carbon cake that serves as a lattice through which the water flows. As the water flows through the lattice structure, the bacteria, giardia and crypto are removed. What the tests measure and watch for is the actual percentage of removal. The structure of the Frontier Pro and GEIGERRIG filter allows for a nice flow. (The comments of Rob H above are fair and a good recommendation.)

That said, we have nothing against the structures of other filters and we are proud to see the GEIGERRIG's great compatibility with all of them. We are receiving calls every day from filtration companies that are highly encouraged by what GEIGERRIG brings to the table. It is opening up a whole new world for the filtration companies.

It is great to see.

I hope that this answered your question.

If you need something much more scientific, I'll see if I can get Aquamira's engineers to post some thoughts.

Aquamira builds the Frontier Pro.

Let me know if you would like me to arrange this.

GEIGERRIG has chosen to produce high-quality packs. When compared with similar quality packs from other companies, our prices are very much the same.

As I noted, we're really only talking about an additional sheet of polyurethane and a pressure bulb. Not much cost.

We do however also include quick release, plug-and-play valves for the tubes so that they can be easily removed for cleaning and for easy access and refilling of the hydration engine. (Leave the tubes threaded through the shoulder straps, slide the slide top off, and dunk the bladder in the stream.) The quick release, plug-and-play valves, also make it so that the bladder can be turned inside out and placed in the dish washer for cleaning or rinsed out and hung in a tree for drying.

You can check out how durable the GEIGERRIG Hydration Engine is with a Youtube search of: "GEIGERRIG Uncontained Bomb Test" and "GEIGERRIG 100 mph Road Impact Test". These test show how tough the GEIGERRIG Hydration engine is and why GEIGERRIG Hydration Engines have a life-time warranty for leakage.

You can also learn alot about this at http://www.GEIGERRIG.com.

Again, thanks for your courtesy and genuine inquiry here.

Tomorrow I will provide a weight for the Hydration Engine with and without a filter inserted. I'll use our shipping scale at the warehouse.

3 Liter Bladder – No Tubes Attached – .24lbs
Drink Tube with Bite Valve – .14 lbs
Tube with Bulb – .20 lbs
Filter – .10 lbs

Also, a good video to watch with regard to pack capacity and pack weight, when it comes to GEIGERRIG Hydration Packs and GEIGERRIG Hydration Engines, is posted on the lower half of the GEIGERRIG Homepage under videos. Watch video called: "GEIGERRIG Pack Capacity."

(www.GEIGERRIG.com)

Bob – So just to verify, is the inline filter about 20 grams? If so, that would be a lot lighter than the frontier pro.

That's pretty light for a filter. I'm still curious on how many microns it is.

I'm most interested in how this filter would work outside the Geigerrig system. Could it reasonably be used as a simple inline gravity filter?

Good morning Bob,

Brilliant idea to pressurize a water bladder! Kudos!

Could you please clarify your filter's ability to filter out bacteria?

"The GEIGERRIG filter removes 99.9% of Giardia and 99.9% of Crypto and bacteria."

McNett states "the Frontier Pro filter will remove 99.9% of Giardia, Cryptosporidium and other contaminants down to 3µm. If viruses or smaller bacteria are suspected, use in conjunction with Aquamira Water Purifier Tablets".

It's my understanding that most bacteria are smaller than 3 microns and that the EPA standard for bacteria filters is log 6 (99.9999%).

Sincere thanks,
Lance

Forgive me, but I am using our Fed Ex measuring scale to measure the weight of our filter. The scale shows .10 lbs.

I would think that the GEIGERRIG filter is lighter than the Frontier Pro because the Frontier Pro is a bit bigger, has a replaceable pre-filter and other replaceable components, and has a bite valve and lid attached. It also has cool rubberized components for easy gripping and use of the bite-valve lid. These unique niceties and features make the Frontier pro a bit heavier but also a very nice piece of gear. Again, we were excited to see how well the Frontier Pro worked with a GEIGERRIG Hydration Packs.

The GEIGERRIG filter is very simple and contains the same basic filtration structure and mechanisms as the Frontier Pro. But because the GEIGERRIG filter is an in-line filter, it does not have the weight of the terminal end bite valve and associated cap. Also, it is designed to be a bit sleeker and smaller with simple universal quick connect plug and and plays on both ends. Also, the in-line adaptation of the GEIGERRIG filter means that it is not being handled and therefore does not need any rubberized gripping components. Also, the GEIGERRIG filter is rated for 50 gallons of filtration and is disposable, rather than designed with the additional components required for internal component replacement.

So yes, you should expect the GEIGERRIG filter to be a bit lighter. But again, we are happy that the GEIGERRIG facilitates your filter of choice whether it be Katadyn, Sawyer, Aquamira or otherwise. Many of the filtration companies are talking to us and contacting us. This is good for everyone. More options, more personal adaptations, broader horizons for water access and use. (Steripen really liked the large mouth opening of the GEIGERRIG because it made use of the Steripen with a hydration pack easier.)

For us, we really liked the Frotier pro, and Aquamira was excited and energized to work with us to develop something light and special for in-line application to our GEIGERRIG. We also liked their Universal Quick Connect capability that they have developed.

The COO of Aquamira, in response to media inquiry regarding GEIGERRIG's 3M Award for Best New Product at 2011 Winter Outdoor retailer – “We were excited to be involved in the in-line filtration capability of the GEIGERRIG. The GEIGERRIG pressurized hydration engine opens a whole new world for the performance of in-line filters for hydration packs. It greatly enhances the convenience of personal water filtration and improves the access to more water sources for hydration pack users.”

Lance,

Your previous quote – "It's my understanding that most bacteria are smaller than 3 microns and that the EPA standard for bacteria filters is log 6 (99.9999%)"

This is absolutely right. This is why, even though our filter does remove bacteria, we do not make a claim to meet this EPA standard.

Thank you – Great technical confirmation and certification.

I hope that I answered your question sufficiently.

The post above responds to the questions regarding weight and the frontier pro and other filters.

Thank you Bob.

Bob,
It's good to see the actual developers on these forums, and congrats on a successful product.

Have you done any tests with the filter set up in "gravity" mode? I understand that depending on water quality, it may be difficult to suck water through the filter when it is not paired with your system. But this filter may be a viable option to some of the ultralighters here if it works reasonably quick in gravity mode. If it could filter a liter of water in a few minutes, I'd be tempted to swap out my Katydyn hiker pro filter element in my homemade gravity system….

Ike — I am working along the same lines.
Very nice illustration. Good idea keeping the drain off the bottom.

I don't know about the fuel filter casing. Is it a food grade plastic? You may not care.
For $12 you can get a Katadyn one from Ama–n.

I am using a 3L bag from a box wine.
Bag hanging is done using a Clip-n-Seal. It is useful for temporary bag closure.
Tubing is PE tubing used in fresh water plumbing applications.

If all this seems overkill for some, we hike as a family of three so we go through a lot of water.

Ok, I felt kind of silly testing the gravity flow of our filter from a GEIGERRIG Hydration Engine that is designed with pressure so that it pumps water through the filter…but I did it anyway. The guys in the warehouse were all looking at me like I was crazy. They are used to me testing things under pressure. Anything for the crew here at Back Packing Light…

I'm glad to report that the GEIGERRIG filter provided a pretty nice gravity-fed flow.

I used a 3 liter hydration engine, and hung it 6 feet above the warehouse floor. The flow was nice and steady.

If you need more information from GEIGERRIG, just let me know.

Sincerely,

Bob Geiger

Where can I get one!?

GEIGERRIG products are easy to find at http://www.GEIGERRIG.com. Click "all products", and then scroll down through all of the packs, filters and filter tubes. There is a buy now button on all of the products.

All GEIGERRIG orders taken at http://www.GEIGERRIG.com will be fulfilled by a GEIGERRIG retailer. We do not sell direct, and we make sure that all of the consumer activity at our website supports local Outdoor Retailers.

Hope that helps.

Bob, thanks for going against your conventional testing methods for us! Stuff like that is always appreciated here. If you're getting a steady flow, I'd assume you're getting about a liter every two minutes–a bit less with dirty water. That's pretty good for a tiny filter. I may have to try one out this spring!