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Please – help me with my gear list purchase.


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Home Forums General Forums General Lightweight Backpacking Discussion Please – help me with my gear list purchase.

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  • #1656372
    James holden
    BPL Member

    @bearbreeder-2

    Depends on yr dedinition of bombproof

    do you want it to handle winter snow and gusts

    Or are you going for winter ascents in patagonia

    there isnt a tent that can do everything at a light weight, be durable and not be too warm in summer

    #1656375
    Konrad .
    BPL Member

    @konrad1013

    I agree with everyone else's statements. Unless you're in a high wind environment like the UK, or working your way up some 28,000 ft peak, you don't need a bombshelter like a hille.

    "We will be hiking during all four seasons in different parts of the US where I expect weather conditions to vary anywhere from mild to moderate, i.e., rain, wind, etc. We won’t be doing any alpine mountaineering, or things of that sort, but I do want to be prepared for any unexpected heavy snowfall (although highly unlikely)."

    Yea, no need for the Hilli, it's overkill for what you will be encountering. Pyramids can handle a lot of snow, especially if you're willing to periodically knock off snow on the sides, or shovel it off if it accumulates to an obscene amount. Like I said before, Andrew used a pyramid (albeit, his was a steeper pyramid designed for more snow) to traverse Alaska, and i'm pretty sure you won't encounter anything tougher than the conditions he faced.

    Also, Hille's are double SKINNED, so they aren't great for high humidity areas. A pyramid is more versatile for different conditions

    #1656410
    Lawrence Destefano
    Member

    @resigned

    Locale: Subtropical Wetlands in SE Sunbelt

    konrad, Eric, josh, Dug, Jeff, Dan, Heath, Kevin, Bradford, eric,

    You have no idea how instrumental you all were in helping me through this decision. Believe me, you have my sincerest gratitude. Again, I can’t say it enough, thank you.

    I just got off the phone with Ron Bell (nice guy) from Mountain Laurel Designs. I wound up ordering 1 ea. DUOMID, 1 ea. DUOMID InnerNet, 1 ea. SUPERMID, 1 ea. SUPERMID InnerNet, and 20 ea. 9" Easton Aluminum Stakes.

    The DUOMID will house me and my gear, and the SUPERMID will house the one female, her 10 year old son, and all their gear.

    This was a sizable purchase – I pray that I made the right decision.

    Okay, so based on the recommendations here, I have so far purchased the following:

    1 ea. ULA Circuit backpack
    3 ea. Western Mountainerring Versalite Sleeping Bags
    1 ea. SUPERMID
    1 ea. SUPERMID InnerNet
    1 ea. DUOMID
    1 ea. DUOMID InnerNet
    20 ea. 9" Easton Aluminum Stakes.

    I know I still need backpack advice and recommendations for the mother and son, but for now I’d like to get sleeping pads out of the way.

    Please tell me this isn’t going to be another exhaustive mind boggling decision? I can see how we’re teetering on rocket science when it comes to tents, but sleeping pads? I mean c’mon, this has gotta be straight forward – right?

    Okay, so whats the verdict when it comes to ultra-lite pads? Advice and recommendations please…and if anyone knows the best place to get them on sale that would be great too. Thanks.

    Have I told you folks how great you are yet? :)

    #1656432
    Tad Englund
    BPL Member

    @bestbuilder

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    Lawrence, not to side track this thread but if/when this "relationship" takes a wrong turn, I want to buy all the used stuff you just got!

    My take on the pad- there is no all in one pad- a NeoAir is good in summer but I can't sleep on mine under 45* or I get too cold, a Big Agnes Insulated Air core (heavy) is good for me down to about 35* (Yes I'm a very cold sleeper), for winter conditions I use and old thermorest and if real cold I double it up.
    An easy solution would be to get a Exped 7 with a pump or a Kookabay insulated pad (my next purchase), they are light and warm. in the summer you can use the NeoAir. I might be selling a Large NeoAir that has been used twice for a good price if that is the direction you are going.

    Good luck one this one.

    #1656434
    Amy Lauterbach
    BPL Member

    @drongobird

    Locale: San Francisco Bay Area

    Lawrence,

    Pads should be easier than the others. But there is an important question. How important is comfort? Or are you simply using a pad to insulate you from cold?

    If comfort is important, then get the short NeoAir pad plus whatever thickness closed cell foam pad is necessary to achieve your temp target.
    For temps down to about freezing, get the Gossamer Gear 1/8" ThinLight pad.

    The closed cell foam pad is used for two things. First, sitting around camp or sitting during lunch while hiking, to insulate your butt and make it comfy if you're sitting on sharp rocks. Second, you can put it under your NeoAir if you are camping in a place where there are thorny things, to protect your pad from puncture.

    You won't need long pads, as you can use your ULA pack plus any clothing under your lower legs.

    Short NeoAir is 8.8 oz.
    1/8" Gossamer Gear pad is 1.8 oz.

    #1656443
    Konrad .
    BPL Member

    @konrad1013

    How urgent is this trip again? If you've got time to wait, there are some pretty revolutionary (very light and very warm) sleeping pads that are going to hit the market. If the trip is just around the corner, you may consider the NeoAir, and the 1/8 Gossamer Gear thinlight pad, as mentioned above. Considering that you are sleeping in a WM versalite (10 degree bag), you should still be warm below freezing, even though a neoair + 1/8 GG thinlight combo doesn't provide you with a lot of insulation ( aka R-Value). Even when temps are in the mid 20's, my friend sleeps comfortable in a 10 degree bag, with just a neo-air, and no further insulation pad underneath, so based on that, I think your Versalite+Neoair+1/8 GG pad will keep you pretty warm for the majority of temperatures you'll encounter. If you plan to go a lot more below freezing, consider a thicker insulation pad under the neo air, or ditch the neo air+thinlitght combo for just a down-filled or synthetic-filled insulation mat (contact Bender at Kookabay.com for details).

    For many, the neo-air is the most comfortable pad out there b/c it utilizes horizontal baffles, and an internal support system of some sort. It's just not the warmest. But again, I think pair with a versalite bag and thinlite insulation pad, you'll be fine for most everything.

    As for neo-air sizing, I would say get the full length pad. The neo-air is 2 inches tall when inflated. If you get a short neoair, and then use your backpack or extra clothes to make up for the rest of your body that is hanging past the neoair, there's still going to be a pretty substantial drop between when the neoair ends, and where your backpack/clothes begins. A lot of people say this drop causes sore backs and knees in the morning.

    If you're not that as concerned about comfort, but want warmth and ease, consider a plain old foam pad. In general, inflatable will be more comfy than foam, but plenty of people sleep fine on just foam. The ridgerest solar is a bombproof foam pad since its not inflatable (no worry of leaks). It's also got a lot of R-value, and will be great for most winter conditions. Because its just solid foam, its a bit bulkier and heavier, and you're going to have to roll it up and stash it outside of your backpack, using the lashing straps on your pack. However, this would be the most simple, fail-proof solution. There's no waiting for inflation/deflation, it's just simple and warm.

    Honestly, you may want to go to REI and try out the ridgerest, the neo air, and big agnes air core (this mat is the same style that Bender makes over at Kookabay, except he makes it out of lighter materials, and gives you the option of down or synthetic fill)

    Edit* Just some more off the top of my head.
    If you are patient enough to inflate and deflate your pad everyt night/morning, and you find the Big Agnes Air core style mat comfortable (either the mummy shape or the rectangle shape), than I would suggest you contact Bender and have him custom make you one but with lighter materials and some kind of synthetic or down insulation. This way you can achieve a super warm pad, at the lightest weight possible. Talk to him about the benefits of down fill vs synthetic fill for his mats. I know down filled mats take a while to deflate, unsure if such is the case with his synthetic filled mats. If you find these big agnes style pads comfortable, you can get a pad that's not only warmer but also lighter than the neo air…and since its comfortable to you, that's all that matters.

    If you can't stand the feel of the big agnes style mats, or the ridgerest style foam mats, than you'll probably get the neo-air + thinlight combo.

    Also, i agree with Tad, if any of this doesn't work out for you, feel free to contact me. I'd be happy to grab this stuff off you used :D haha. You're saving yourself a ton of experimentation by opening up your decision making to forums, and at the same time, it's every gearheads dream to assemble a gear list of we think is the best XYZ on the market at the moment.

    Congrats on the duomid/super mid btw. Do you have trekking poles yet?

    #1656850
    Dan @ Durston Gear
    BPL Member

    @dandydan

    Locale: Canadian Rockies

    "there are some pretty revolutionary (very light and very warm) sleeping pads that are going to hit the market."

    Do tell….are you referring to the klymit X frame argon pad?
    http://www.klymit.com/index.php/products/sleeping-pads/ineriaxframe.html#

    Lawrence, the NeoAir is a popular choice since it's 2.5" thick, rather light and it's got some internal baffling and a reflective layer to give it a decent R value compared to other air inflatable pads. You can't go too wrong with one of these and you can add a thin foam pad underneath if you are going to be camping in sub freezing conditions. I personally use the small and put my pack/clothes etc under my feet.

    #1657048
    Elizabeth Tracy
    BPL Member

    @mariposa

    Locale: Outside

    I think the best intersection of weight, comfort, price, and non-fussiness is the Z-lite, an eggshell closed-cell foam pad made by Thermarest.

    Here's the caveat. How important is *comfort*? I was absolutely fine on the Z-lite and other closed-cell foam pads (Ridgerest, Thinlite, etc.) for 15 years. Then, I got older and my back/hips simply started getting sore.

    So I switched to an inflating mattress. (The one I chose is called the POE Ether Thermo. I found it more comfy than the Neoair when I lay on it at REI; happily, it also had a lower weight and better price than the Neoair.)

    But I gotta warn you: Inflatable mattresses are a pain. You have to inflate & deflate daily; they get punctures that you have to fix or send to be fixed; you have to *baby* them on the trail/in camp so as not to puncture them. (Will the 10-year-old be ultra-careful with his mattress??) They are also more expensive than closed-cell foam (non-inflating) mattresses, and generally not as warm per weight.

    Boy do I miss the days when I only needed the Z-lite. I could just throw it around in camp, xylephone it up to sit on it, no fuss no worries don't ever have to think about it.

    However, my POE inflatable mattress adds enough critical comfort for me that I put up with the added hassle/weight.

    In summary,

    If you *must have* superb comfort, you have creaky bones, etc., then put up with the daily hassle (and high up-front cost) of an inflating mattress.

    If you're not the princess-and-the-pea, and sleep more easily, forget those &!:* inflatable mattresses and just get the dang Z-lite.

    – Elizabeth

    #1657233
    Konrad .
    BPL Member

    @konrad1013

    Dan,
    I've got my eye's peeled for these upcoming pads

    Exped Synmat UL7 (this one won an industry award)
    syn
    "There were a lot of great sleeping pads on the floor of Outdoor Retailer this show—meaning you have much better nights' sleep in your future. Exped had the most technically advanced (or at least interesting) pad I saw for ultralight hikers. At 15 ounces, and about the size of a Quiznos rolled up, it's both very light and VERY warm. Exped has rated it at R4, which basically means it can sleep on snow in truly sub-freezing conditions. It's about 2.5-inches thick, incredibly light — made of 15-denier nylon—and also incredibly delicate. Watch those crampon points." -Outside Magazine

    &

    The POE Elite AC
    poe
    14.9 ounces, R value of 4.4 for the torso region, R value of 2.5 for everywhere else.

    I don't know how I feel about the klymit X…looks a lil too bareboned for comfort IMO….that said, these 2 pads are going to give my Neoair a run for its money. Also, notice that the Exped has toggle holes for pillows (e.g. The montbell one)…I wish more pads had this

    #1657282
    Amy Lauterbach
    BPL Member

    @drongobird

    Locale: San Francisco Bay Area

    "Will the 10-year-old be ultra-careful with his mattress??"

    Good point. Kids usually sleep well in any conditions, and they don't weigh enough to compress a foam pad much. The 10 year old won't need an inflatable pad. A foam pad will be fine.

    #1657378
    Lawrence Destefano
    Member

    @resigned

    Locale: Subtropical Wetlands in SE Sunbelt

    Sorry folks – got slammed with work the last two days.

    Wow! What a wonderful group here. I’m totally blown away by all who continue to contribute with great advice and recommendations. Thank you.

    Quote by Tad:
    “Lawrence, not to side track this thread but if/when this "relationship" takes a wrong turn, I want to buy all the used stuff you just got!”

    Quote by Konrad:
    "Also, i agree with Tad, if any of this doesn't work out for you, feel free to contact me. I'd be happy to grab this stuff off you used :D haha."

    To you two shining role models who’ve gone above and beyond with your freehearted advice…all I can say is you continue to inspire me by stepping forward yet again with your unwavering generosity to disburden me of all my gear. How thoughtful.:)

    All kidding aside.

    Tad – I’m a very cold sleeper as well – with that said I think I’d fair pretty well using a pad that’s recommended for winter in the summer. That way I’m not worrying about different pads for different climates. If I’m way off base on this thinking please tell. Thanks for the lead on the Exped and Kookabay. I’ll look these up and do a side-by-side comparison with other recommended brands/options. Have you tried these out?

    If I decide on the NeoAir I’d definitely be interested in buying yours – if it’s still available.

    Amy – as much as I want to follow ultra-lite doctrine, i.e., shunning unnecessary luxuries, I’ve got to admit that when it comes to a good nights rest (the only area I waver in) I will make concessions. I like your idea of supplementing the inflatable with a foam pad underneath. Another option to consider, thanks. As for the 10 year old – yes, he’s very responsible but I think you’re right in that a foam pad is better suited for a boy his age.

    konrad – No urgency on the trip. I know I’m sounding greedy, but when it comes to my sleep I want almost all of it : ultralight, comfort , and warmth. The one area I don’t care about is convenience. If I can get a pad that meets the listed criteria then I’m willing to put up with whatever hassles I might encounter when setting up an inflatable. On top of endorsing Amy’s recommendation (except for the short NeoAir) I like the other options you’ve tossed out, and that I need to consider as well.

    The one drawback to living in Central Florida – there’s no REI store. The Exped Synmat UL7 and POE Elite AC look like real winners. Well the Exped is for sure since it won a gold at the OutDoor Show in Friedrichshafen. Do you have any idea when these will be available to the public?

    Question. I’m confused here. When you talk about Bender making a custom down/synthetic inflatable pad, what exactly is this? Are there like three chambers in this pad: an outer nylon shell, a middle chamber filled w/synthetic or down, and a inner chamber filled w/air?

    Regarding trekking poles…I read somewhere these poles can be used as some type of center support for the MLD tents that I purchased earlier. I have no experience with them and quite frankly don’t even know their particular purpose. For right now though, I want to stay focused on one item until I make a final decision and purchase, and then move onto the next item until I make a final decision and purchase, and so on. They are on my checkoff list and I’ll be inquiring about them latter on in this thread.

    Anyway, thanks for the pad advice and recommendations, I’m gonna check everything out and see how it all stacks up.

    Dan – Thanks again. The more folks who endorse the NeoAir, the more I get that warm tingly feeling about buying one.

    Elizabeth – Like I told Amy, I’m embarrassed to say that I would break ultralight doctrine for the luxury of a good nights sleep, so comfort is definitely important. What’s more embarrassing is…I guess that make me the “princess-and-the-pea”.

    I hear what you’re saying about inconvenience and delicate handling connected to inflatables; however, with our disciplined mindset we consider those to be non-issues. Have you ever experienced a tear or puncture with the POE? Does anyone here use one and how do you stack it against the NeoAir?

    Thanks for sharing your experiences and all the options available. A lot to consider.

    #1657735
    Lawrence Destefano
    Member

    @resigned

    Locale: Subtropical Wetlands in SE Sunbelt

    So far here’s a breakdown of all the recommendations.

    RECOMMENDED INFLATABLES
    Thermarest NeoAir (Large)
    Thermarest NeoAir (Short)
    Exped AirMat 7 Pump DLX
    Big Agnes Air Core
    POE Ether Thermo 9
    Kooka Bay Ultra Light

    RECOMMENDED FOAM PADS
    Thermarest Z Lite
    Thermarest RidgeRest
    Gossamer Gear 1/8" ThinLight

    RECOMMENDED COLD WEATHER INFLATABLE/FOAM COMBO
    Thermarest NeoAir (Short) > Gossamer Gear 1/8" ThinLight
    Thermarest NeoAir (Large) > Gossamer Gear 1/8" ThinLight

    RECOMMENDED INFLATABLES (NOT AVAILABLE)
    Exped Synmat UL7
    POE Elite AC

    After researching all the recommendations here, it looks like the NeoAir comes out as being the most coveted inflatable pad amongst the ultralight backpacking crowd. There have been some mixed reviews that do concern me. The primary complaints were; a) slick & slippery, b) loud crinkly noise like a bag of chips being opened, and c) material was delicate. I didn’t quite understand what was meant by slick and slippery. Are they saying that the sleeping bag slides off the pad, the pad slides across the tent floor, both, or neither since the term slippery is referring to something completely different?

    I also came across another inflatable that no one mentioned, and it's being sold on this site. What struck me about the BPL TorsoLite was the fabric and R-Value. As stated on the BPL Gear Shop website, “The outer shell is made from 50 denier Diamond Ripstop Nylon…tough, durable, rugged, and lightweight” with an “R-Value: 3.0 – 4.0”.

    I know this is a “torso” pad measuring only 32” and weighing 10 oz., but I’m calling today to see if they can make one to the NeoAir’s length and width specs for a Large. If it can be done, then calculated off the TorsoLite’s width and length measurements, the pad should weigh the same (or even less) than NeoAir’s Large. What you would have then is a NeoAir in 50 denier Diamond Ripstop Nylon with a higher R-Value: 3.0 – 4.0.

    Does this translate into a rougher, tougher, more durable, quieter, ruggedized pad? I won't know until I find answers.

    Does 50 Denier Ripstop Nylon have a rougher texture than NeoAir's Polyurethane Coated Nylon? If so, wouldn't that solve the slippage issues? Is 50 Denier Ripstop Nylon fabric quieter than Polyurethane Coated Nylon? Is 50 Denier Ripstop Nylon substantially stronger than Polyurethane Coated Nylon?

    Once I find the answers I'll have a better understanding, but for some reason I've got it in my head that Denier is superior to Polyurethane Coated Nylon

    Does anyone know if other manufacturers use Denier Ripstop Nylon for their inflatable pads?

    During my research I also came across this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXSZekGt7Ek

    I'm always skeptical when I watch YouTube. With consumer digital camcorders it's infinitely easier to create trick homemade special/visual effects using cheap props. Has anyone seen or used one of these? If that's for real and works as seen, then I think it's a brilliant idea to use the NeoAir's stuff sack as the pump.

    Well like I said, this morning I'm calling Bozeman Mountain Works (I think they're the manufacturers for the BPL TorsoLite) about making a custom pad in their 50 Denier. I also gotta write KookaBay to find out what their specs are. The site is pretty bare bones – doesn't even list the material used. Then I'm going to the Travel Country Store where they have most of the pads mentioned here.

    Oh, one last question. Aside from the weight savings, it seems the NeoAir's horizontal I-beam baffle construction is another feature that lends itself to massive popularity. When I Google searched "KookaBay" the only images that popped up were KookaBay pads with vertical baffles only. I found this odd because everything I've read (from professional and consumer reviewers alike) speaks of how the horizontal I-beam baffles eliminate that bouncy feel and supports the body better by laying flatter, which in turn prevents the pad from curling around the body like vertical baffles tend to do. Don't know if this is a bunch of hogwash or not but in light of this, if i were to get a KookaBay, should I specify horizontal I-beam construction?

    #1657910
    Konrad .
    BPL Member

    @konrad1013

    I doubt Bozeman will make a custom length pad for ya. That being said, you could always do the following, which I plan on doing myself this winter:

    Take 1 Torsolite at 32 inches, 3.5 r-value, at 10 oz (or sometimes even lighter)

    Take a new RidgeRest SOLAR (this part is speculation since I don't have 1 in hand yet) at 72 inches, 3.5 r-value, and 19 ounces. Cut the guy in half, to get a 36" pad at 9.5 ounces. Combine this section with your Torsolite, to give you a 68" pad at ~19.5 ounces. Now keep trimming the ridgerest solar to fit the profile of your legs. If the 68" works for you (it does for me if I sleep with my pillow on the ground, and not on my pad) you should be able to trim the whole package down to 16-17 ounces or so. For a 3.5 r-value pad, thats pretty good in my books.

    Bonus: if you're torsolite pops a leak, you won't die because you still have a 3.5 r-value 36" solar ridgerest section as backup. Of course, this section will be pretty narrow since you've trimmed it to fit your legs. Better than nothing still.

    Added Bonus: You now have the other 36" ridgerest Solar section to trim down as another torso size pad for a buddy who wants to tag along.

    Also about your duomid…I'm pretty sure you need trekking poles to set it up. It doesn't come with any poles of its own, and I'm pretty sure Ron doesn't sell alternative poles for it. Did he mention anything that would refute this? As far as I know, everyone here uses trekking poles for their mids. Either way, you should get poles…they will come in handy. Helps save your knees on the downhill, gives stability during stream crossings, propulsion on the uphills…love em. While i'm at it, I'll recommend some.

    If you want the lightest poles, get Ti Goat poles, or Gossamer Gear LT4s (i own and love the latter). They are made of carbon fiber, and are more prone to breakage…if you are out for months at a time, it's possible that you'll break one at one pt or another, so keep it in mind.

    If you want pretty lightweight poles, made of aluminum (these will bend before they break) that have a very secure locking system, get Black Diamond Trekking poles. I specifically like the trail ergo cork ones. Skip any pole with a twist lock…yes they are lighter, but they are frustrating when they untwist on you

    Skip all that antishock marketing bs. You don't need it. That's coming from someone whose spent 3 years with anti shock poles, converted, and has spent the past year with normal poles

    #1658170
    Andy F
    Spectator

    @andyf

    Locale: Midwest/Midatlantic

    Other options for supporting the mids:

    – sturdy overhead branch (not during windy weather)

    – wooden pole cut to length from dead but sturdy wood

    – wooden poles lashed together at top to form a bipod, connected to top tieout on mid (carefully remove sharp protrusions on poles before they get anywhere near the tent)

    #1658173
    carl becker
    Spectator

    @carlbecker

    Locale: Northern Virginia

    I just finished a over night hike using a short Kooka Bay. It was as comfortable as my NeoAir. Warmer and heavier but very nice.

    #1659910
    Mark Hudson
    BPL Member

    @vesteroid

    Locale: Eastern Sierras

    Its odd reading your post, they sound almost like mine.

    I am just getting into the overnight scene and am purchasing all the same gear.

    We are lucky enough to live at the foot of the sierras so hiking is in our back yard.

    I bought wm bags for all three of us, but went with the ultralight for the wife and son and the alpinlite for me.

    I bought neoairs for the pads.

    I have not bought a tent for the wife and I. I purchased a used moment for the son (he is 13).

    We went with exos 46 liter packs instead of the cottage guys, i am very happy with the purchase so far.

    My tent I THINK I am getting is the lunar duo. The supermid just seems to heavy and large, and the duo is too small for me at 6' 5". I really want to go with the echo II but hesitate for fit purposes.

    A cuben duo would be a perfect compromise :) for me at least.

    Good luck with your gear, I know how difficult it can be to get it all right (still not sure I have anything right lol)

    #1660960
    Lawrence Destefano
    Member

    @resigned

    Locale: Subtropical Wetlands in SE Sunbelt

    Mark, you might feel odd about how similar our circumstances are, but knowing I'm not alone in my trials and tribulations of choosing the right equipment sure feels good. I know that's not a nice thing to write but you know that old saying…misery loves company. :)

    What do you think of the WM bags? When I got mine I was really surprised by its quality, how light it was, and how compact it compressed.

    As far as going with a mainstream bag company, I think Osprey builds one of, if not the best, mass produced packs around.

    I'm a little confused when you say you're considering the Lunar Duo because "the Duo is too small".

    If you're talking about the Six Moons Lunar Duo vs. the MLD DuoMid…isn't the DuoMid the larger of the two? The Lunar Duo is 34 sq/ft and the DuoMid is 40+ sq/ft – no?

    #1660961
    Lawrence Destefano
    Member

    @resigned

    Locale: Subtropical Wetlands in SE Sunbelt

    Okay, based on the BPL member recommendations I decided on getting 3 custom Kooka Bay pads, but I have a little dilemma though.

    I submitted one message to Kooka Bay asking that they call me, or at least provide a contact number. I never heard back. I just sent the following second message:

    "Hello-

    This is my second message I am sending you. In my first one I included my cell number and asked that you either call me, or provide a contact number for me to call so that we could discuss my custom order for 3 pads and pillows.

    I have a longstanding policy of not doing business with companies that don’t provide a means for live communication. Regarding this, could you please let me know as well what your policy is. Thank you.

    Regards,

    Lawrence"

    Does anyone know if this company communicates live with its customers?

    #1661027
    Lawrence Destefano
    Member

    @resigned

    Locale: Subtropical Wetlands in SE Sunbelt

    The WM sleeping bags I just received are beautiful. Is there any way to preserve their new condition while camping? Do they sell some type of lightweight inner and outer lining to preserve the inner shell from your body oils, and outer shell from the ground or other soiling elements that might contact the bag?

    #1661038
    Eric Lundquist
    BPL Member

    @cobberman

    Locale: Northern Colorado

    You can purchase silk liners to keep the bags clean from body oils. They weight about 5oz, and suggest an increase in the temp. rating of the bag but it could be subjective or marketing hype. You could also change into clean base layers for evening and/or cleanup before bed with some soap and water too.

    Be careful not to over compress the bags too.

    #1661076
    Lawrence Destefano
    Member

    @resigned

    Locale: Subtropical Wetlands in SE Sunbelt

    Eric, can you provide a source for the liners? How do you know if you're over compressing?

    ETA: Scratch that…didn't realize a google search would show tons of options available. Thanks.

    Any particular brand of silk liners favored here? Please explain the compression thing.

    #1661092
    Eric Lundquist
    BPL Member

    @cobberman

    Locale: Northern Colorado

    As for the liners, I got one as a gift last Christmas and it is the Grand Trunk model available at REI's outlet website. Brian has a Cocoon brand one for sale in the gear swap for $25. Mine's not mummy shaped, but you might want one that is so it fits your bags better.

    I was just expressing caution about overstuffing your down sleeping bag. I used to stuff mine with a compression sack until it was absolutely as small as possible. I'm sure that I likely damaged the down by doing such a thing. I now understuff my down gear by purchasing a different stuff sack that is larger than was provided by the manufacturer. It's not as compact but it's also easier to stuff/unstuff when it isn't compressed as much. Just my opinion as I don't have any hard facts on such a thing.

    #1661169
    Lawrence Destefano
    Member

    @resigned

    Locale: Subtropical Wetlands in SE Sunbelt

    Thanks for sharing Eric. I too was really concerned about the stuff sack WM provided. It compressed the bag so tight that I had serious concerns. Common sense was telling me this has got to be causing some damage to the down. It's been tightly compressed at the bottom of my Catalyst for 2 weeks now, and I just got done unpacking it. What a relief. The bag is happy and I won't be doing that again…unless someone steps fourth with scientific evidence that no harm results from tightly compressed sleeping bags. :).

    I'll check out Brian's liner. Thanks.

    #1661378
    David Chenault
    BPL Member

    @davec

    Locale: Queen City, MT

    I believe it was Chris Townsend that, a few months ago, spoke of unpacking a vacuum-compressed down bag that had been stored very compressed for years. It suffered no ill-effects. IMO down overcompression is a myth.

    Down does take a while to loft up, so if space allows storing it less compressed will let it get to full loft (heat) faster once in camp. Down bags ought to be stored fully fluffed so they can breath and dry, and not get mildew-funky.

    Those Wyoming tipis are pretty cool. Given their weight and especially the size of their footprint, they seem targeted more towards horsepackers and hunters that will be basecamping. In your shoes, I'd get a Supermid. MLD is a top notch company.

    #1661728
    Lawrence Destefano
    Member

    @resigned

    Locale: Subtropical Wetlands in SE Sunbelt

    My WM bags came with a tiny black stuff sack (made of silnylon I think) and a very large beige sack(a muslin fabric of some kind). I'll use the stuff sack for backpacking and the muslin sack for storage.

    I did go with the Supermid. Thanks for the affirmation.

    Does anyone know if Kooka Bay communicates live with its customers?

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