Better rain gear.

I have a nice eVent jacket that I love. It is very comfortable and regulates moisture very well. But I think it is a misconception that some people think that because you are wearing Goretex or eVent you will never sweat inside the jacket and if you do something is wrong, and your expensive jacket should be performing better. My experience is that in many moderate situations the jacket works great and I stay dry but I can always get really strenuous and out-sweat the jackets ability to dissipate the moisture.

What are the different options that you've tried? In what conditions are you needing the rain shell? Those are important pieces of information to have.

In warm wet weather any breathable waterproof gear will not function like it's supposed to. They require the heat of your body to drive the moisture out to the colder outside environment. If it's just as warm outside then it just stops functioning. Also, if you're not in prolonged cold downpours you might be able to get away with a DWR treated windshirt like the Patagonia Houdini.

If you've never worn a rubberized PVC rain jacket/pant combo then you don't know how much sweat you actually produce. I wear a North Face Diad jacket and almost always have the pits open all the way. I'm looking next at getting an umbrella so I don't need to have the hood all buttoned up trapping even more moisture.

Try an umbrella. Use elastic cord and cordlocks to attach it to your shoulder strap and waist belt for hands-free hiking. It's really the only truly waterproof-breathable option in my opinion.

if yr very active and its humid, youll sweat no matter what

that said try event, and get something with pit zips

the key in prolongued rain is to stay warm as you will get wet regardless … and dry quickly when you can

If you're active, who cares if you're wet? Obv- temp makes a difference, but I'll go hiking with just a SW midweight down into the 40's (?). If I'm still a little chilly, I'll throw on a syn layer on top to help wicking/ evap. Wet wool on skin ain't that bad.

If its raining just get wet and change to dry gear at camp.

YMMV- I sweat out everything so I figure: If you can't beat em…

My experience is that while I am hiking, I sweat as much in Goretex or Marmot Precip as I do in a non-breathable rain jacket (in my case, silnylon). I haven't tried eVent which is way out of my budget.

If it's warm, I just hike without the rain gear, putting it back on when I stop. My body heat will dry out a thin baselayer top and nylon hiking pants within 20 minutes after it stops raining, maybe 30-40 minutes under a wind shirt. If the rain doesn't stop, the shirt and pants go into a plastic bag inside my sleeping bag during the night, while I wear the dry top and bottom base layer from my pack. My hiking clothing doesn't dry that way, but at least it's warm when I put it back on in the morning!

If it's cold, I don't sweat inside the rain jacket (I deliberately bought it large so it is loose and not completely unventilated), so no problems there.

In addition, if it's below freezing, I can use the rain jacket and pants as a vapor barrier inside my sleeping bag.

This system works fine for me, but of course not necessarily for you!

I haven't tried an umbrella since I got my dog (managing umbrella plus trekking poles plus dog leash is a bit too much, lol), but it can be great if the wind is not blowing and if the trail has recently been maintained so you're not getting against brush or tree branches.

See if you can score an eVent Packa…Between the huge pit zips and the eVent fabric you're probably getting the best option short of an umbrella.

I don't know… I'm skeptical of umbrellas. Too many 'what ifs'. Hell, just a windy day can do you in, let alone if one of the tiny umbrella arms breaks…

Ponchos and Packas: For me ponchos are out strictly because of the flappy nature. I have not tried a Packa but sort of want too. Its the right idea IMO, but how well does it work in the wind? Not too well. Yeah it could be longer, but then it'd be a poncho. I've seen a couple of pics of cats on this website that had their ponchos all folded and tied up very neatly and I bet flapping was nominal, but essentially they were wearing a hardshell, which, for me, is a no-no due to sweaty bastarditis.

I keep crying about wind, but in my mind rain means high potential for wind.

Right now I'm really in to wool baselayers and thin softshell jackets/ pullovers. I think that wool is the way go for baselayers. Specificially, I use a SW short sleeve Jersey and some of their arm warmers. I'm bout to order a 3/4 zip jersey from em. Ill be able to go from short sleeve, and 3/4 unzipped (very vented) to all zipped up and arm warmers on easily. If I am still getting cold, I'll put on a very thin softshell (OR Contour) or a synthetic long sleeve. (Prana Snakebite?)

I'll wear this system year round. Well, if its definitley cold (i.e. winter;)) I'll just go long sleeve instead of the jersey/ arm warmers.

Sorry for the novel

I sweat even in the cold when hiking and really swelter and wet out my clothes when wearing any kind of supposedly breathable event Tex hi-tech type jackets even with the pit-zips and main zips and side zips wide open and the only thing that really works for me is one of those cheap Dick's -type pvc poncho's trimmed off to just above the knee. Provides plenty of rain protection with some wind block but most importantly allows loads of ventilation everywhere…. more than any $200. 16 oz. rain jacket I ever tried.
Some of them are made of a much lighter and softer material that weighs very little after trimming the bottom off to knee level and packs down to nothing.
To supplement max rain protection when not hiking or around camp or when really cold I carry an Antigravity gear UL rain jacket (about 4 ozs?) which is also doubles as a wind layer or insulating layer over fleece or whatever and I find this system to be really versatile for me. Another forum mentioned the poncho set-up long ago and after trying it the first time was converted. And for about 10 bucks you won't break the bank.

I know I will never be 100% sweat free while engaged in high levels of activity, I just want a hard shell jacket that really breaths well.

Yep on the pit zips. I started installing them on jacket and raingear back in the 70's.

Helps a lot.

As others have suggested, Event is the only thing that breathes better than Propore (DriDucks, O2, etc.). At least, that is my understanding.

Poncho is out? Have you tried a rain cape?

The most breathable, comfortable rain gear is that made by Paramo. Nothing else even comes close. It’s just not the lightest gear around, though it is getting lighter recently.

I got the Vista Jacket back in June and though it is a little heavier than the lightweight eVent jackets, it is the most comfortable rain jacket I’ve ever acquired. I even wear it as a mid-layer shirt when it’s not raining.

Anybody carry Paramo stuff in the US?

Miguel:

Reading the "technical aspects" on Paramo's website — looks like this too is a fabric that achieves rainproofness without the need for a PU layer — like Goretex and similar — which seriously compromises breathability! So we now have four options:

1. Paramo
2. eVent
3. MontBell Breeze Dry Tec
4. Driducks

One question I sometimes ask: Arcteryx makes great jackets — but when will they finally move away from the 30 year old Goretex technology and use any one of the above (or come up with something of their own)??

Ben,

I can answer that question!

A: When "mainstreamers" stop paying $400+ for jackets made from 30 year old Goretex tech.

When Gore-tex stops forcing companies to use ONLY gore tex in their gear. If they switch to a different technology, Gore tex pulls the license. Arcteryx would be foolish to switch away from Goretex. It by far as the best brand recognition and is trusted by more people then any other option.

I would guess 97% of the people who shop at REI have never heard of anything but Gore tex. They aren't going to switch over to something that only 3% of their customer base is demanding. Unfortunately we live in the time when mainstream companies value dollars over quality and innovation. We are capitalists afterall?

Jeff Sullivan Wrote:

"I don't know… I'm skeptical of umbrellas. Too many 'what ifs'. Hell, just a windy day can do you in, let alone if one of the tiny umbrella arms breaks… "

If you have bought an umbrella with little tiny parts, you bought the wrong kind. For example, those pretty collapsible ones that fit in your pocket are unsuited for much wind at all.

The Golite type of umbrella has virtually no "tiny umbrella parts".

Additionally, even old Ray Jardine, "Mr. Umbrella", states the need to carry conventional raingear for extra tough rain/wind conditions, as well as the warmth that raingear can give.

The thing about Paramo is that it is completely different from other systems. It even takes some real mind-bending to get the concept right, and that is why perhaps it is very misunderstood and not as popular outside the UK as other systems. Even the creator of the system, Nick Brown, has a hard time explaining the system.

Basically, it doesn't work with a membrane, at all. It works with two layers, one a "pump liner" which literally, mechanically, through the physical shape of the fibers, draws water away from the inside. It isn't a chemical process like hydrophilic and hydrophobic fibers, nor a process that relies on heat from your body the way Pertex/Pile systems do. The second layer is an outer microfiber shell that provides wind protection and, when washed in Nikwax Direct, keeps the shell's DWR rain-shedding ability. If you were to sit in a puddle wearing your Paramo pants you'd feel the water seep through, but stand up and within a few seconds that water will have been drawn away from the skin and you'd feel dry. You can put Paramo gear over wet clothing or skin or hair and it will draw moisture away, drying you off. It's amazing stuff.

I will always prefer Paramo over other systems, though until recently it was so heavy that it just wasn't worth it for lightweight trips, was bulky, and many people claimed it is too hot except in colder conditions. I think people tend to think in conventional terms when using it, though, and miss the variety of ways you can use it. You can wear it was a traditional outer rain layer, but the material is so soft and pliable that it feels very good against bare skin and can be worn just like that, alone. Sometimes I use the rain gear without my other layers, as a kind of waterproof shirt. In winter my Velez Adventure Pants are waterproof and warm, without the need for any other layer except insulation when sleeping.

Even when sweating really hard I have never felt wet with the Paramo on… just hot when the temperature was too high. If it is that warm I usually don't use any rain gear at all and just get wet… I can always use the Paramo later at a rest stop to dry myself off.

Think of it as a more of a kind of ever-drying "towel" than a rain shell.

Troy:

After listing what I believe are the "four best" options above — in terms of breathability — I reread your post and have a real concern.

I have no experience with Paramo — but of the remaining three — if you are that dissatisfied with Driducks, I doubt you will be impressed with the other two (eVent or MontBell).

But you didn't indicate the circumstances (temperature / humidity) where your wp/b shell "just don't breath enough to keep from sweating".

There is no "miracle fabric" here — just which ones breath better and over a wider temp/humidity range. Hike fast enough when it's warm enough or humid enough and you WILL sweat (regardless of what marketing hype out there might lead us to believe). Thinking about it, you can sweat buckets when actively hiking in a tee shirt — or naked…

Not to sound flippant — but the minute you feel like you are starting to heat up — slow down — before you soak yourself in sweat. Methinks prevention is key. Take off a layer when you stop feeling cold (i.e. before you actually feel warm). Hike slower if you're feeling warm. And when stopping, put on a layer before you really feel cold. Drink before you really feel thirsty… etc.

the taking of layers thing doesnt work too well in continuous freezing rain … the problem being that unless you set up a tarp, when you take off you shell to take off a layer … u get soaked with more freezing rain

short of extreme condition, non-stop PNW freezing continous rain is probably the worst climate to be in … give me -20C rockies weather anyday

like i said the only way ive found to deal with it is to wear stuff that dries super quick with body heat and keeps you warm when wet … for me this means polartec fleeces/softshell as mid layers, syn base layers, etc … i find even merino and primaloft dont dry quick enough in said conditions

funny enough i find breathability a bit less of a concern in this case as you WILL get soaked … warm when wet is more important

Actually, I have pretty good luck putting layers on and off during heavy rain. (I have so far had the good luck not to be caught out in one of our PNW freezing rains, and hope it stays that way–but I know where you're coming from, Eric!) One requirement is that the insulating layer(s) have to have a fully opening front.

I leave the hood of my rain jacket on my head and skin out of the sleeves, leaving the jacket draped over my shoulders. I then get out the insulating layer, quickly slip it under the rain jacket and put it on. I then get my arms back into the sleeves. I do this in reverse when ready to remove the insulation layer. It helps to be under a tree. As Eric suggests, a small tarp or even a yard square piece of painter's drop cloth to put over your head and the pack wouldn't hurt, either.

We females may be more adept at this procedure due to plenty of practice getting into and out of upper body undergarments while trying to preserve a modicum of modesty.

I still think eVent is about the state-of-the-art in breathable membranse because of HOW it works as opposed to Gore-Tex's physics of vapor transmission.

In fact eVent is so breathable that in high, cold winds it's not as warm as Gore-Tex B/C it's SO breathable.

Eric Wrote: 'funny enough i find breathability a bit less of a concern in this case as you WILL get soaked … warm when wet is more important'

That is my thinking, just get wet while you're out exerting yourself, and use wool/ movement to keep warm. Then when you stop for camp change into dry layers and light hardshell.

I live in the PNW, but only a few years, so I'm no expert. I just think, for me (sweaty) instead of fighting getting wet, I'll just go with it till I get to camp.

The OP didn't state freezing temps, so I am not considering it in my first post. But in the freezing rain case… good luck. freezing to thaw to freezing, all while wet, is the most dangerous.

"short of extreme condition, non-stop PNW freezing continous rain is probably the worst climate to be in … give me -20C rockies weather anyday"

+1 to that-

so I'm going to be messing around with layering thin softshells this winter to see if I can find a sweet spot between breathablity and waterproofness. The only saving grace about PNW rain is that its usually a drizzle- rain all day for a grand total of .5 inches?!? That ain't rain- go to Mississippi on a summer day around 2:30 in the afternoon- you'll see rain!