Finalizing other winter gear – feedback appreciated

Nick, I have an MSR Windpro and it's really a aummer stove. I use an MSR Dragonfly for winter B/C canister stoves don't do well much below freezing.

If you don't like the weight of a Dragonfly get an MSR Whisperlite International which, like the Dragonfly, is a multi (liquid) fuel stove and utterly reliable in any season.

If you use the Windpro with a butane/propane mix canister *always* inverted, starting from when it is full, it will be good down to 10F or so (0F is the ultimate limit for 30% propane).
If the canister is used upright at all, the minimum useable temperature goes up (because the propane will be used up faster than the butane), then you will eventually need to dunk the canister in luke warm water to keep it going.
Colder than 10F and either you have to keep the canister above this temp or use a liquid fuel stove.

Eric and Stuart,

Thank you for the feedback. Yes, I am aware of the limitations of canisters, and don't intend to use the Windpro when the temperature will down to near 20F. I do want to experiment with it though. I do have a clear understanding of how to maximize the canister system in colder weather, and everything Stuart presented is exactly what I have in mind.

I do have both a Dragonfly and a Whisperlite. Typically I will be seeing lows averaging 25F. However, out here it can get below 10F without wind chill, so I do monitor things closely. Any chance of colder weather and I will definitely be bringing a liquid stove.

To Eric's point, aside from the weight, I really like the Dragonfly, it is like a blow torch and sounds like a jet engine.

If you only bring along a shovel for avys, ditch it unless you're traveling with other people that carry all of the typical avy gear (transceiver/probe mainly). In fact, you may want to ditch it altogether because of the wooden handle. However, if you bring it for snow caves, etc., then fine.

Ice axes can certainly get lighter (7-10oz). Unless you're doing ice climbing, or doing serious hard snow alpine climbs all the time, you don't need a burly axe. Heck, Camp even has a steel pick on one of their 8oz axes, but for what you say you do – likely not needed unless you run into ice. Keep in mind, though, that a lighter an axe takes more effort swing it, since it will likely require more swings to get good penetration/steps cut.

I've seen several folks who advocate using this particular stove in the winter (inverted of course)- are there other, more appropriate cartridge stoves to consider?

The Windpro with an inverted conister has served me well in the winter.

Michael, what did you use to hold you Windpro canister inverted?

And what temps are we dealing w/regarding winter?
I'm thinking something down to 0ºF or below to replace my whisperlite. Or is that pushing the limits of inverted remote canisters?

Roger Caffin wrote a two part technical article on choosing and using canister stoves in winter.

Thanks James – I thought it was somewhere here on BPL. I'll look that one over carefully

The only stove I have seen that is set-up to me inverted is the Helios… too heavy.

Also (as Roger stated), the WindPro needs to be lit in the normal configuration first, then invert the canister and adjust the flame. I can vouch for this! BIG flame.

The tension on the feeder line to the stove makes it a little difficult to keep the canister inverted. The canister needs to be propped up with something. I imagine a couple rocks, etc. I also think one could cut a slot in something like a margarine container and place the canister inverted in it. I have not used mine inverted, just played around with a little recently.

pretty interesting video on the Windpro in winter configuration

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3717016644346348598#

how much does just the blade of your shovel weigh? I was looking for something light like that to strap to the end of my axe for when I'm climbing – Right now I have a BD Traverse but think a Volle XLM might be in my future

> The tension on the feeder line to the stove makes it a little difficult to keep the canister inverted.

I prop it up against my boots, in the vestibule.

Cheers