Ultralight from scratch, not practical.

"If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe." -Carl Sagan

Each person is free to buy the gear that best suits them for the conditions that they will be facing in the field. I've often said that I think of my "gear" as a simple, light, uncluttered collection of tools that help me to get safely through the area where I'm hiking and camping, while minimizing my impact on the land.

So, I guess I disagree with you when you say that attempting to get the lightest weight gear for the conditions you will be facing from scratch isn't "practical." You may not have the knowledge of certain gear options or how to obtain lighter options at first, but that can sometimes take time, practice, and a bit of research.

When a person is buying backpacking gear for the first time, they (a) may be persuaded to buy the heaviest, "bomb-proof," expensive gear available, but as they begin to realize that they're carrying more than they really need they can lighten their load or (b) they can consider weight BEFORE they begin buying things and make more informed decisions. I'd guess that there's always a learning curve, but that doesn't mean it isn't practical to try to make the most informed choices from the start.

best,
vip!

"One tool does it all " is generally not part of the UL way. It is more about the "correct tool for the job".
So I would agree with you that if you can or want to get only one set of gear and want to cover a large range of weather conditions, UL only may not be the best way.
On the other hand I am not about to carry a 6 pound tent where my sub two pounds does more than an adequate job
Keep in mind that knowledge is the most important tool of all.
After all members of our indigenous population (Australian Aboriginals) still go on walkabout for days and weeks with very little at all.
I would die out there (the desert) but they find food and water without maps or gizmos.
And no tents…
Franco

You have to look at what kind of camping you're going to be doing 90% of the time and the conditions you'll be dealing with.

For example in the PNW most are fine with a 32 degree bag and a down vest if they need to take it down to lower temps in the winter time.

As for pack size in liters you'll notice that once you go UL you don't have as much volume you're lugging along. I can easily do 4 nights with my Osprey Talon 33. Having said that I'm sure I can cram in a few more meals for longer trip if I relocate my tent to the outside of the pack for the first few days and as I go through my supplies I'll start trimming up.

I'm glad I bought a lot of my gear at REI as there were a lot of returns/exchanges made as I started tuning my gear to the kind of trips I'm typically doing.

I love my ArcTeryx Acrux 65 pack it's cool as hell but I honestly just stopped using it. I save about 2lbs right there which doesn't sound like much when you're carying 30lbs …big deal you're at 28 …but when you're at 12lbs its much more of an impact.
To me UL is about capabilities not just shedding weight.

*** Added ***

Seriously ask yourself what kind of outings you're going to be doing. I'd love to think I'm going to be gone for weeks at a time in the back country. But the truth of the matter is, with work and other peoples schedules the best I can hope for 9 times out of 10 I'm doing weekend trips.

With that said you're much better off getting the gear that will suit you best for that type of camping as opposed to being ready for that once a year trip but lugging around bomber gear that isn't even coming close to maximizing it's potential.

If you take a look at my list you'll see that I cary a lot of "luxury" items in terms of water filter and overkill shelter. But this is what makes it enjoyable for me. I like knowing that *if* the fit hits the shan I'm more than prepared for it with my shelter etc.

I think we are talking two different things here:

1. gear weight
2. gear versatility

One does not determine the other. Heavier gear is not necessarily more versatile than lighter gear (and vice versa).

From what I've gathered from your post, you are basically implying that for more extreme conditions or high bulk loads, you cannot be UL. This is far from the truth. You can get a UL version for every piece of gear, no matter what the conditions. Obviously, the colder conditions get, the more your base weight will go up. That is inevitable whether your base weight is UL or traditional. You can get a 20 degree sleeping bag or quilt for 7 or 8 oz less than your 31 oz bag. This would still be considered UL even though it weighs more than a pound. You can get a higher volume pack that is still UL. Most people don't start out with the lightest gear not because it's not practical, it's mostly due to lack of knowledge. People don't realize how little they need.

-Sid

If I'm following your reasoning, then I should probably buy something like a 15-foot panel van as my first vehicle, since I may potentially need the extra space at some point (say if I'm moving my stuff into my first house), and in looking for a place to live, I want the smallest place possible since it's only me so I could get an apartment, but since this is my only abode it seems like I'm jipping (sic) myself by not getting a larger house since I may some day have a wife and children, etc. etc. So what I am saying is that, up front, IMELAHO, your argument is a bit silly.

>>So what I am saying is that up front, its far more economical to plan for potential conditions, rather than the optimal ones.

I have to disagree with this. Ultralighters don't plan based on optimal conditions — we put together a system of equipment based on a realistic evaluation of where, when, and how long.

When I got into ultralight, I was pretty shocked at the prices for everything. I was reluctant to pay the price of titanium. Now I feel that it is blasphemy to use any material other than titanium for cookware. It goes to say that what appears to be the best may not always be so. Yes, it is a better deal to get the bigger pack or a heavier but warmer bag but in the end, the only one that is being jipped is yourself. You'll have the frustration of too large of a pack and too warm of a sleeping bag when you could have considered the alternative of simply carrying extra clothing. You'll have the frustration of carrying the extra weight that resulted from it. In the end, it is your overall trail experienced that will be jipped.

As a side note, just yesterday I got horribly fed up with the super long extension sleeve on my Granite Gear Vapor Trail so I cut it. Sometimes it feels so much better to have proper sized gear.

I'll argue in support of the original post. Going ultralight is all about focussing in on a precise set of gear for specific conditions and not taking all kinds of what-if backups. Generally beginners don't know the exact conditions they will end up facing so they naturally choose the lowest common denominator that will allow them to roll with the punches.

Franco said that knowledge is the most important tool in going light and I agree. But knowledge is exactly what beginners don't have. In fact I think the achilles heel of the whole ultralight philosophy is that while your gear may be multi use for today's trip heavier weight gear tends to be multi use across trips. And that's why many people never go ultralight. (Even when they know what it is.)

Going UL doesn't necessarily mean having gear that only works for a very fine range of conditions. You can buy UL gear that is quite versatile if you wish. For example, the ULA Ohm backpack is rated at 65 liters and it weighs ~23oz. With it's light frame, you can do almost any trip with this pack.

Similarly, choose a sleeping quilt that uses high fill power down and you'll save a ton of weight even if it is rated down to 20F or lower.

>Generally beginners don't know the exact conditions they will end up facing so they naturally choose the lowest common denominator that will allow them to roll with the punches.

It does not take any more skill to bring a 28oz REI Halo +25 than it does to take a campmor bag at 36 oz. It takes the wisdom to do so (and about 70 bucks).

When I transitioned from car camping, I dug through all my cookware and weighed it. My 5 oz scout pot weighed the least. That's the one I took; it didn't cost anything. I bought very few things for my first backpacking trip- on which I was solo- and my base weight was just over 11 lbs.

Familiarity with gear and greater outdoorsmanship will help winnow away your pack weight, but getting under 20 or even 15 pounds is just about making smart decisions.

Insofar as the OPs contention was that for a rank beginner with no gear (and presumably no or little experience), buying the absolute lightest stuff straight away is not desireable. That doesn't seem like a very controversial statement.

However, a rank beginner could still do very well with ultralight gear that is far lighter than what is sadly still typical for the REI crowd. In some cases it might be best, as a beginner might not have the proconceptions that arise form reading too many back issues of Backpacker.

Bottom line, carrying a heavy pack sucks bald dog. More people would like and stick with backpacking if they didn't fall victim to the pathological fear of the unknown that gives rise to full leather boots, huge packs, 2 extra days of food, and a 10 degree bag year round.

When I decided to take the plunge into backpacking (from car camping) and get a quality sleeping bag/quilt the choice was easy and I still only have the one. I just don't need anything else. I mean at first I tried to use what I had but, seriously, a cheap 0 degree bag? You don't even have room in a large Alice pack after cramming that thing in.

I find that a 30 degree quilt can cover a range of conditions without a weight penalty. With insulated camp clothing and a bivy it will go down into the 20's. Or I can drape it loose and vent in warmer temperatures. This basically covers everything south Texas can throw at a person other than the summer heat. I'd eventually like more options but for now the one does it all and it does it well.

So, as someone else said, analyze the conditions you expect to face and buy for that. And with some thought you'll be lightweight and still be able to cover a relatively broad range of conditions.

>So what I am saying is that up front, its far more economical to plan for potential conditions, rather than the optimal ones.

Exactly. And when you shop, pick the lightest thing you find that meets your needs (including price).

I think it is difficult buy light gear as a beginner — period.

Has everything to do with not knowing what to expect and not being able to judge what is needed to keep you safe.

If you look at a long thru-hike list for the AT or PCT, you will have a pretty good selection of three season gear. Note that most thru-hikers vary their gear as they go through various climates and seasons. There is no single clothing and sleeping gear set that will cover four seasons in most parts of North America. Likewise, I would want a different pack for an overnight vs. a week-long unsupported trek. There is no free lunch!

Getting down to it, an UL kit doesn't have that many components to it, which is exactly the concept. The gear isn't any more expensive and in many cases is less. IMHO, lightweight insulation is the breath-taking expense. The rest is far more brains and experience— simple, cheap things like decanting big bottles of soap and insect repellent to small vials, recycled water bottles vs. Nalgenes, going easy on extra clothing, etc.

Jumping into any hobby or sport from scratch is a big bite in the wallet. Think about photography, biking, climbing, kayaking, or fly fishing. UL hiking is cheap and easy in comparison.

More traditional gear for the most part isn't any more versatile than ultrlight gear. You're always going to be making a choice between weight, durability, range of use, etc.

Even when I was using more tradional gear, I still had several packs, several sleeping bags, and several shelters.

I wouldn't say a beginner starting from scratch and without an unlimited budget cannot practically go ultralight. I would just say that if you want the ability to go out in a wide range of conditions you will be stuck making compromises the same as you would with traditional gear.

The nice thing about starting ultralight from scratch is you can get started a lot cheaper (unless you want to start SUL – which wouldn't be recommended anyway until you gain some experience and an advanced skillset) than with traditional gear. This should give you the flexibility to make some additional purchases to cover other conditions/trip length/etc.

I disagree with the title of this thread. If I had started with lighter gear, I would have saved a lot of money I spent replacing the old "bomber" gear that everyone advised me to get back in the 1980's and that I could no longer physically carry! I am not including in this calculation that since my initial switch to lightweight, I've fallen prey to the temptation to spend more money just to shave off a few more ounces! What with one thing and another, I've spent too many $ after the initial investment to reduce my base weight another 2 lbs. so I can go out for longer periods (2 more days). For instance, I bought a GG/Tarptent Squall Classic so I could save half a pound over my Tarptent Squall 2–but now there's Joe Valesko's Hexamid that's almost a pound lighter! (So far I'm resisting!)

I think Dale has hit it pretty well:
"Getting down to it, an UL kit doesn't have that many components to it, which is exactly the concept. The gear isn't any more expensive and in many cases is less. IMHO, lightweight insulation is the breath-taking expense. The rest is far more brains and experience— simple, cheap things like decanting big bottles of soap and insect repellent to small vials, recycled water bottles vs. Nalgenes, going easy on extra clothing, etc. "

Those are the things that most people don't tell us about!
The other thing I disagree with is that you need multiples of gear to adjust to conditions. My pack (SMD Comet) will go for an overnighter or for 10 days, and I have scrunched up the compression straps to make it work as a day pack. My 20*F WM sleeping bag (I backpack in the high mountains where it often gets well below freezing even in mid-summer) has a full-length zipper, so if it's a warm night I can open it all the way or use it as a quilt. For clothing, I use the same basic gear, summer or winter, just taking extra layers for colder conditions.

I must admit that I don't go overnight in the winter (the nights are just too long for me!), so I don't need a 4-season tent or a 0* F sleeping bag. If I were going to backpack in winter, I'd need those.

BPL members can make a major difference.
Yes, it can be difficult for a newbie to make the right choices in kit with no experience to fall back on. If an UL hiker shares their experience, then you may prolong the hiking career of a newbie by saving them the leg damaging effects that most of us have gone through.
I've shown a few friends how comfortable you can be with very little. 'Hand on' advice is worth 10 times the written word. The outdoors is a big, frightening place to a lot of city dwellers. The natural instinct is to think more is safer.

I would also disagree that winter vs. summer is a big deal when it comes to gear selection. I add some additional gear, sleeping bag liner, gloves, thermorest) but it fits in my trusty old Jam2. I could probably get by with a smaller lighter pack for most of my summer trips but my Jam2 weighs 16 oz. and can be used regardless of season, bear canister etc.

Ultralight is not a destination it is a set of principles. By not buying gear that it a nessesity and by thinking multiuse you can save the money needed for all those cool cuben and titanium toys.

Heh heh, OP has managed to elicit a rare instance of unanimity amongst BPL posters in their uniform disagreement. :)

"Heh heh, OP has managed to elicit a rare instance of unanimity amongst BPL posters in their uniform disagreement. :)"

OK, I'll bite. I think the OP has a point…to a certain extent. Lack of experience with gear and the outdoors is a big factor. It takes practice to treat your gear delicately, and let's face it, most UL gear IS more delicate than trad stuff. You have to baby a lot of it, it rarely lasts as long, and not knowing a million little things can exacerbate this. I would advise borrowing or buying cheap second hand gear until you have enough *experience* to make good UL choices.

And I will also disagree that going light means you take less and therefore can get by with a smaller pack. That may be your UL experience, but for me UL just means taking lighter versions of stuff I've always taken. In fact, I take a few more things than I used to, like trekking poles and windshirt. Oh, and there's not any titanium in my kit except for my Ti-Tri Caldera. Anodised aluminum is my choice in cooking pots. Light, cheap enough for beginners.

Lets say you have to purchase a sleeping bag, one is a 20deg bag and weighs 2lbs and the other is a 45deg bag and weighs 1. They cost $180 and $160 respectively. As a person who has no sleeping bag right now, it is more economical to go with the heavier, but warmer bag. If I went with a lighter bag then down the line I will have to purchase another sleeping bag that is warmer, when i've already invested the money in the first bag. I'm saying that the price of the sleeping bags are not linear, and one is only slightly more expensive than the other leads me to purchase it. So I can pay $180 up front or pay $240 down the line.

Matt,

We get what you're saying but you're missing a bit of the point.

side note: a 2lb 20 degree bag is still a light bag. FYI Mountain Hardwear for 32oz has a 15degree bag.

You live in SoCal do you really need a 20 degree bag? Or would you be better off with a sleep system such as a 32 degree bag and a down jacket for your winter camping needs? You can easily use a 32 degree bag all summer long be it unzipped or as a blanket and for your sub 32 degree winter camping bring a down jacket to wear when you are out and about and to sleep in. This will cost you less than buying 2 bags and save you weight AND you don't have to be redundant.