No More pup tents please

[Lynn Tramper]

Edited because some folks were upset by my critical skills as well as my lack of photographic skills.

Forget it. I bought a tent that I didn't want or need to provide BPL members with an advanced review., and in the process i was reminded why I don't like pup tents. Even the word pup-tent turned out to be contentious.

[Troy Ammons]

I wonder if a certain tarptent designer could be convinced to make a double-walled two person tent with a single arch pole support.

Isnt that a scarp ??

[EndoftheTrail]

Lynn,

You're venting about a tent without telling us the make/model and instead of showing some photos of the tent, you show your sleeping bag instead. ???

Sorry, but you really lost me there.

[Lynn Tramper]

—

[Bradley Danyluk]

Yeah, I don't have a clue what this thread is about. At least mention the model you're talking about. I can't even generalize your arguments to models we know about because we have no idea what it looks like.

[Steven Evans]

I could be totally off on my guess, but I thought it was about the SMD Haven…

[Lynn Tramper]

Don't sweat the details. This is the third UL pup-tent I have tried, and all three of them sucked. It's not a rant about a particular tent so much as a rant against pup-tents. I've outgrown pup tents in a big way. The only reason I gave this newest one a try was because it was double walled, and the inner could be set up separately as well as the outer. I otherwise wouldn't have bothered.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Sounds like an SMD Haven

[Steven Evans]

Kinda sad for me if it is about the Haven – it looked like great usable space. I just ordered some of the .74 cuben to make my own SMD Haven (I don't think Ron is going to make a cuben version anytime soon), only difference is that i am going to make a carbon fiber rod to run across the roof so that my poles can connect to it on an angle. Maybe that will help out a bit :(

[jim jessop]

What is a pup tent?

It would be useful to at least define the broad parameters. I thought it was a small 'A frame' tent, but I don't see many of those from light-weight manufacturers.

[Lynn Tramper]

"Maybe that will help out a bit"

I can't picture it in my head, but I strongly recommend at least one guy out on each of the flat paneled sides of the tent, such as on the Refuge-X. This should keep the fly from touching the inner in all but the worst weather. At least a cuben version won't sag as badly.

[EndoftheTrail]

Maybe start another thread when you've got pics?

[Lynn Tramper]

"Maybe start another thread when you've got pics?"

You really need pics of sinylon sagging onto a mesh inner??? Yeah, I know, I've gotta find that camera one way or another. The question is, will I find it before I sell the tent???

[Lynn Tramper]

Never mind

[Rog Tallbloke]

>I could tell instantly that this pitch was going to let me down. The angle the stake has to hold was too steep, and the tension too high.

Yeah, I made the same comment about the steepness of the sidewalls on the original thread, and said it would need guys to sort it. I didn't need to buy one to confirm what I could see from the pics. Not that adding a couple of guys is a big problem, though sewing the loops into the seams while the tent is being made would save everyone the bother of messing about with guys through vents etc.

If the vestibules had more material and came out further, this could be a great tent. If there were cuben panels in those bigger vestibule flaps, they would keep the weight down and let more light in where you need it too.

[chris kersten]

I would try to research the tent before you buy, maybe. Why does the website have to review an item faster? Backpacking kwipment does not really go out of date like the new Iphones do, so you have lots of time to look around for what you need.

[Ultralite Hiker]

I just bought the Haven last week and just got it seam sealed. I have not had it out yet, but this is very disappointing. Especially since this is my first tarp tent :(

[Lynn Tramper]

" Why does the website have to review an item faster? Backpacking kwipment does not really go out of date like the new Iphones do, so you have lots of time to look around for what you need."

No fault of this website per se, but every time something new and lighter comes out, folks around here want to jump on it an buy it. I was in no hurry for this tent, and in fact don't NEED this tent at all. I already have tents I'm quite happy with, and it's mid-winter here so I wouldn't even think about using it in the field for another 4 or 5 months, but I bought the tent (second hand from Greg) mostly so I could give the forum members here a quicker and more timely review before they rush out and buy it. I kinda knew, since Greg was pimping the virtues of the tent on his thread one day, and selling it just a few days later, that it would have some flaws (all tents do). I just hate for folks to blindly buy expensive stuff without knowing the full story. For instance, you couldn't tell, just from looking at the website, that this tent had no side guy-outs…Bash me if you want, but I'm writing this as a courtesy to the long standing members of this site and not for my own benefit.

And I agree with Roger. In fact, if I had decided to keep this tent, the first thing I would have done is to add cuben rain awnings (for more space, more light, more ventilation etc..), which would have required additional guy lines anyway. It just irks that a pup tent this expensive didn't come from the factory with such basic stuff already added, including guy-out points along the side.

[Troy Ammons]

Sounds like you just need a bigger tent.

A typical A frame tent, that is typically called a "pup tent" would probably serve you better, but heavier.

Why not build what you want.
Sil floor, .9 oz nylon walls and a cuben fly.

[Travis Leanna]

While exceptional tent innovation is still possible, I do think that most of the designs we're going to see in the next few years are going to fall short of our expectations. The UL movement has been chugging at a steady pace for a while, but how many practical tent designs are there? We've seen some truly wonderful designs come out in the last 10 years–in all gear, not just tents–, but it's going to slow down, and things will probably go into a "tweak" mode–refinement of the things we already have.

Unless new fabric is developed, many shelters have simply reached their weight limit. You can only suspend a waterproof canopy so many ways, and I just think we're nearing the end of truly groundbreaking designs.

Now, I DO hope there are some manufacturers and designers out there that WILL make me eat my words!!!!

[Rog Tallbloke]

Lynn, how much for the tent? I have some 0.7oz Cuben in stock…

[EndoftheTrail]

"Maybe start another thread when you've got pics?"

You really need pics of sinylon sagging onto a mesh inner??? Yeah, I know, I've gotta find that camera one way or another. The question is, will I find it before I sell the tent???"

Hey, you saw Franco's sagging tent video! A pic or two for illustration is not too much to ask, is it? :)

[Ultralite Hiker]

Steven McAllister seems to like the Haven if I recall correctly. Maybe he will see this thread and offer up some advice on how you and I can get a better pitch without adding guyouts.

[Rog Tallbloke]

Stephen added some thoughts to the original thread here.
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=31245&startat=20

And from this comment by another user:

"I have had my Haven out in some unexpected gusts. The tent shook but the stakes held fine. That said, It is true that the Haven (and any tent) will fair better in strong winds if guyed out using the extra loops provided."

It looks like Ron did sew some extra loops on anyway. Lynn?

[Lynn Tramper]

"Pup tent: A small triangular tent, especially one with a pole at either end and room for one or two people."

This is my working definition. An A-frame tent is called an A-frame tent where I come from.

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