3day, 40mi trip. Critique the newb.

I can't seem to sign into your spreadsheet account.

Can you just post it here in the forum?

Thanks,
M!

I can't see your gear list, but I'd consider bringing the Atom regardless. A silk sleeping bag liner would add a lot of warmth without much weight. I imagine the 15F bag weighs a fair bit.

Everyone does things differently, but lots of backpackers – myself included – get up at that time just before dawn when the temperatures get coldest. You warm up a bit while packing up camp, and then get really warm when you hit the trail. It's much better than freezing in your bag for another hour or two, and most likely you'll be going to bed between 8 and 9 PM anyway. So if you'd been on your trip, you could have just gotten up to pack up camp at 4:45 rather than going inside.

You can also throw your pack under your feet for some extra insulation.

How thick are your wool socks? The ones I bring for colder temperatures weigh a few ounces, but they're worth their weight in gold as far as I'm concerned. Merino hiking socks won't do it for me if it's below 40.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AtSJq6zGSEzhdFZPYTVVdEdkaU1KLVBNRG53anF1Y3c&hl=en

Hrmm, maybe I screwed up permissioning. I am viewing it anonymously now on a remote computer. Please try again or I'll post the list when I get back home. Thx.

Grams Oz.
Shelter
316 11.15 GoLite Poncho/Tarp
30 1.06 Window Insulation Ground Sheet
0.00 (using sticks, not stakes)
1 0.04 Two rubber bands (wrap windshirt around hiking pole)
0.00 Trekking poles
468 16.51 GG Mariposa (492 w/ stays)
10 0.35 4 mini binder clips (mate windshirt to tarp)

Sleeping
902 31.82 Marmot Helium 16.3F bag
256 9.03 Cascase Designs NeoAir, Short
120 4.23 Silk Liner

Rain Gear
39.69 1.40 MLD Rain Chaps, Spectralite .60
GoLite Poncho
118 4.16 Montane Featherlite Smock

"10 Essentials"
0.00 Map
12 0.42 Compass
18 0.63 Photon Freedom Micro (x2) w/ one aligator clip
12 0.42 2 books of matches
8 0.28 Stanley Mitey Knife (w xtra blade inside)
3 0.11 Micropur tablets (x9)
12 0.42 Dry Lint in mini sandwich bag
6 0.21 Pencil & Paper
52 1.83 Emergency Blanket
0.00 Duct Tape (smushed hiking role)
New Laces!!!

Water
36 1.27 Stop & Shop "Clear Splash"1l bottle
32 1.13 Platypus 1l Hoser (bottle only)

Cookware
8 0.28 Light my Fire Plastic Spork
86 3.03 Klasslite (Heineken) stove
176 6.21 6fl oz bottle for alcohol nested in stove
12 0.42 bear bag (Black, Patagonia)
66 2.33 bear bag rope
10 0.35 big freezer bag

Toiletries + First aid
0.00 Saline (not bringing, filling contact case)
4 0.14 Extra set of contacts
8 0.28 Shaved down contact case w/ saline
1 0.04 Colgate Wisp (toothbruth)
36 1.27 ScreenKleen LCD wipes for face/body (x9)
8 0.28 Moleskin (2 sheets)
1 0.04 Bandaids + 6 Naproxen, Vitamins
16 0.56 Toilet Paper
4 0.14 Freezer Bag
18 0.63 1/4 of a synthentic shammy

Clothes in Pack
311.84 11.00 EMS Ascent 800 Fill Down Sweater
86 3.03 Bridgedale Trekker Socks (Black)
96 3.39 Gloves w/ Mitten cover
36 1.27 Black Fleece Hat
68 2.40 Poly Underwear Briefs
214 7.55 Long Sleeve Lightweight Techwich shirt
256 9.03 T.S. Mills Long Underwear Pants (Black)
0.00 Seal skins

Luxuries
256 9.03 Panasonic DMC-LX3 camera (W/SD card & battery)
4 0.14 freezer bag
0.00 Extra Camera Batteries
46 1.62 Mini Gorrila tripod

Misc.
20 0.71 White Garbage Bag w/ Draw String
18 0.63 Car Key (no remote)

Grams
4317.53
Pounds
9.518524301
Ounces
152.2963887

Nix:

– One Photon. Save 0.31oz
– 1 book of matches. Save 0.21
– Just take the extra blade and leave the knife at home.
– Pencil and paper– I would nix, but people like to document.
– What kind of bear rope and how much are you brining? 2.33oz seems excessive. 50ft of paracord weighs 1.5oz on my scales and there are lighter options than that.
– Emergency blanket– there really is no need.
– Leave the laces. Use them before you go and you will be fine.
– Nix the extra underwear. It is only a three-day trip. Save 2.4oz
– Nix the extra socks or get some lighter sleep socks.If they are not for sleeping, then see above– you can go three days.
– Nix the extra camera batteries and fully charge a pair before you leave. Surely a full battery will last your three days?

THis list is nice!

QUESTIONS?
Where?
Solo?Expected weather?

– Silk Liner – NIX, no need.

– Emergency Blanket – easily nixed with the ground cloth and poncho.

– 6.21 oz for a 6 fl oz bottle for alcohol? THat's a little too heavy.

– 2.33 oz bear bag rope – that's a little heavy

– You can easily NIX the ScreenKleen LCD wipes for face/body (x9)

– You can easily NIX the Toilet Paper

– Question, what is this for? 1/4 of a synthetic shammy

– What? Underwear in your pack? Easily nixed.

– Car Key – You can hide your car key with the car. (easy enough)

– One Photon. Save 0.31oz
What if it malfunctions? I figured it was light insurance to carry a second, no?

– 1 book of matches. Save 0.21
Agreed…duh.

– Just take the extra blade and leave the knife at home.
I only have the full use of one hand, I can't risk slipping with a small razor blade. The blades in the Mitey Knife are tiny as well!

– Pencil and paper– I would nix, but people like to document.
I've never used P &P on the trail, but was told it was vital for leaving notes in a survival situation. No? (I don't journal)

– What kind of bear rope and how much are you bringing? 2.33oz seems excessive. 50ft of paracord weighs 1.5oz on my scales and there are lighter options than that.
It's Walmart "stuff." No clue what it is. I used venetian blind cord for my guy/ridge lines so I have no education on various rope. What is the lightest stuff for bear bagging? Who sells it? Anything decent at a local Home Depot? (read: cheap)

– Emergency blanket– there really is no need.
I have down jacket and down bag in the Northeast. I was worried I would not have a safety margin if I didn't bring it and my down got wet. The worry grows w/ the possible addition of the down pants.

– Leave the laces. Use them before you go and you will be fine.
Sorry, that was just a reminder to replace the ones I have b4 the trip, they are frayed. Thx.

– Nix the extra underwear. It is only a three-day trip. Save 2.4oz
I thought have second base layer stuff was smart in that you alternate it every day and let the 2nd set dry out, no?

– Nix the extra socks or get some lighter sleep socks.If they are not for sleeping, then see above– you can go three days.
So you can basically get away with only one set of base layer on 3 day trip as perspiration won't accumulate enough in 3 days?

– Nix the extra camera batteries and fully charge a pair before you leave. Surely a full battery will last your three days?
Possibly…I am big on taking photos, I might take one extra battery just in case. I hate it when I can take pics and I mess with a lot of photos at night w/ long exposures (read: battery drain)

The trip will be 40mi over 3 days in Cranberry Lake, NY. For the dates we're (there will be 5 of us) going, expected temps are:

Hi 53°F
Lo 31°F

It could be raining or snowing depending on a dip in the temps if there is precip.

I will be camping around Cranberry Lake with relatively easy access to water.

-I am a little confused about your shelter? A GoLite Poncho/Tarp, Window Insulation, Ground Sheet, two bandaids and 4 mini binder clips (mate wind-shirt to tarp)

Sorry, typo. Bandaids = rubber bands to secure the neck of the windshirt around my hiking pole. The mini binder clips will be used to secure the rest of the wind shirt to either side of the tarp in an effort to seal off the one side of my shelter than is left open to the elements. (figured it was worth a shot for better coverage.)

Pics of the pitch I like to use here:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2080502&id=17506531&l=6b18dcad1f

– Silk Liner – NIX, no need.
Keeps bag clean over time, no? W/ my 15F bag, no I won't need the xtra warmth of the liner, but I don't want oils/funk getting into down bag, right?

– Emergency Blanket – easily nixed with the ground cloth and poncho.
Ok.

– 6.21 oz for a 6 fl oz bottle for alcohol? That's a little too heavy.
It was a bottle of Glycerine from Walmart that fit perfectly in my Klasslite stove. Was cheap. Are there Ultralight bottle that will fit?

– 2.33 oz bear bag rope – that's a little heavy
Yeah, using cord from walmart. Not well versed on rope. Suggestions?

– You can easily NIX the ScreenKleen LCD wipes for face/body (x9)
I guess just wash my face off w/ water? No soap of cleaning agent needed?

– You can easily NIX the Toilet Paper
Need some education on this one.

– Question, what is this for? 1/4 of a synthetic shammy
Figured I needed a towel of sorts for around camp? (don't have a bandana, though it would be more useful as a prefilter for dirty water I suppose.)

– What? Underwear in your pack? Easily nixed.
Like my comment above, I guess in three days u won't perspire too much in these such that u'll be cold at night in my bag?

– Car Key – You can hide your car key with the car. (easy enough)
Good idea…I hope I don't forget. :p

For my shelter, if it rains, I am worried about not having a line/rope underneath my tarp to dry stuff out on. Have others used my pitching method I linked to above, and found a way to hang up wet/perspired base layers to dry out? Thx.

–

Why? That is the last place I would ever add weight since it needs to be lifted with every step??????

Greg,

That's for his shelter system, not while hiking as far as I understand it.

Bryce – Here is some insights / feedback to your questions:
_______________________________________

– Pencil and paper– The weight is minimal, and I have used it before. Just add a few pieces of paper to your map bag, and a tiny pencil stub. I end up using my pencil for map notes.

= = = = = = = = =

– – What kind of bear rope and how much are you bringing? BPL mail order is THE place for the ultimate bear cord! You are already on the site! Do not go with less than 40 feet. Nylon Masons line is light, cheap, easy to find and pretty strong, but it doesn't last long.

– I have down jacket and down bag in the Northeast. – I've used a down bag for 30 days in the North Cascades, it rained every day but one! 29 days of rain, and I was CAREFUL, and it was fine. Don't worry about down and rain, just make sure to BE CAREFUL.

= = = = = = = = =

– – Nix the extra underwear. It is only a three-day trip. – My record is 35 days in alaska without changing my underwear – NOT ONCE. And – I never took off my pile pants for 35 days! It wasn't that bad. Everything stinks at a certain point. It's okay to smell bad. In summer I just wear synthetic running shorts with a thin mesh liner as underwear. They NEVER come off.

= = = = = = = = =

– – So you can basically get away with only one set of base layer on 3 day trip as perspiration won't accumulate enough in 3 days? – – Put your base layers on before you hike, and leave 'em on the entire time. You'll be fine. The modern synthetics (like capaline) or wool will wick away moisture just fine.

= = = = = = = = =

– – Silk Liner – NIX, no need. – Don't worry about you bag smelling. Just hang it out in the sun when you get home. If you are wearing all your clothes to sleep, there won't be any issue of smell or oils. Sleeping socks are clean. I think the sleeping bag liners are a sort of gimmick (and I've tried them over the years, and I have come to the conclusion that they are more hassle with no benefit)

= = = = = = = = =

– bottle for alcohol? Use a flimsily thin water bottle from the grocery store. Get one with the "spout" cap for easy filling. The LIGHTEST!

= = = = = = = = =

– You can easily NIX the ScreenKleen LCD wipes for face/body (x9)
I guess just wash my face off w/ water? No soap of cleaning agent needed? – I would strongly suggest a small amount of liquid soap. This is a very effective tool for hand washing (and occasional but washing). Hygiene is essential when dealing with food. (see article below)

= = = = = = = = =

– You can easily NIX the Toilet Paper
Need some education on this one.

Here y'go:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/toilet_paper_free.html

For bear bag cord I used 1/16" spectra which you can find on this site. I got mine on eBay…..300 ft for $19. I carry 45 feet which weighs 0.64oz. Sometimes I carry a 0.1oz mini biner as well to make connecting my food bag easier.

Watch that 1/16" spectra cord with soft wood trees. It'll cut right into them if your bag is heavy enough. Tried it and had a heck of a time getting my food back. Most of the cord is still probably hanging there. Get some arborist cord

@ Greg & James – yes the clips are to secure my windshirt to the one open side of my pitched tarp. I haven't seen anyone else do this… perhaps it's a dumb idea and will fray my fragile wind shirt with the metal binder clips in decent wind?

@Mike – I am using cheapo Walmart, braided rope. Will have to read up on BPL and other places some more about this subject.

W/ re: to base layers… I guess as long a I don't go to bed sopping full of sweat, I should be ok in terms of my insulation,staying warm, and not stinking up my bag you are saying?

I'm not totally following why you think my alcohol container is heavy. A fl. oz. of water (ok, not alcohol) weighs 1.043 dry ounces. Assuming alcohol is in that neighborhood, is my container really that heavy w/ 6fl. oz. of alcohol in there?

The screenkleen are indiv. packaged, and only weight 1.27oz. Can I get a usable amount of camp soap in a container for less weight?

I'll read up on the bear bagging cord after work. Thanks very much for everyone's help!

I think custom dictates your fuel is counted under consumables and not under baseweight. so 1 oz for fuel bottle + 6 in the consumables category.

Ah, there in lies the miscommunication. I thought base weight was everything minus water and food.

That weight listed for the fuel bottle is the weight of the bottle plus 6 fl. oz. of fuel. I think I understand now.. the weight of the actual bottle is reasonable. Thx for the clarification.

I think I am going to try going w/out the stove…we’ll c how it works out:

trail mixes, various granola, cashews, yogurt covered raisins, dried corn.

…after packing tonight and looking at the weather here is what I can up with based off my comfort level. I appreciate everyone's help!

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AtSJq6zGSEzhdDBRSmg4SmhsVUFncGowOTlUZTViV1E&hl=en

Weight (g) Weight (oz) Notes
Shelter
296 10.44 GoLite Poncho/Tarp
32 1.13 Tarp guy line & clothesline
30 1.06 Window Insulation Ground Sheet
0.00 (using sticks, not stakes)
468 16.51 GG Mariposa (492 w/ CF stays)
4 0.14 Clear plastic garbage bag from work

Sleeping
902 31.82 Marmot Helium 16.3F bag re-weigh
256 9.03 Cascase Designs NeoAir, Short

Rain Gear
39.69 1.40 MLD Rain Chaps, Spectralite .60 re-weigh
GoLite Poncho already accounted for
118 4.16 Montane Featherlite Smock

"10 Essentials"
0.00 Map Need
12 0.42 Compass
18 0.63 Photon Freedom Micro (x2) w/ one aligator clip
6 0.21 book of matches
8 0.28 Stanley Mitey Knife (w xtra blade inside)
3 0.11 Micropur tablets (x9)
6 0.21 Pencil & Paper
6 0.211643771 Duct Tape (wound around trimmed toilet paper roll)

Water
36 1.27 Stop & Shop "Clear Splash"1l bottle
32 1.13 Platypus 1l Hoser (bottle only)

Cookware
8 0.28 Light my Fire Plastic Spork
12 0.42 bear bag (Black, Patagonia)
66 2.33 bear bag rope
10 0.35 big freezer bag

Toiletries + First aid
0.00 Saline (not bringing, filling contact case)
4 0.14 Extra set of contacts
8 0.28 Shaved down contact case w/ saline re-fill
1 0.04 Colgate Wisp (toothbruth)
36 1.27 ScreenKleen LCD wipes for face/body (x7)
12 0.42 Walgreen Advanced Healing (29mm x 59mm) hydrocolloid blister bandages
1 0.04 Bandaids + 6 Naproxen, Vitamins, allergy pills
16 0.56 Toilet Paper
2 0.07 Freezer Bag
18 0.63 1/4 of a synthentic shammy
0.00 Bandana (to possibly replace shammy) Need
40 1.41 dry lint, vitamins, naproxin, fish oil, glucosamine chondriton

Clothes in Pack
311.84 11.00 EMS Ascent 800 Fill Down Sweater
36 1.27 Manzella thin fleece gloves
36 1.27 Black Fleece Hat
68 2.40 Poly Underwear Briefs
214 7.55 Long Sleeve Lightweight Techwich shirt
256 9.03 T.S. Mills Long Underwear Pants (Black)
134 4.73 Seal skin socks
50 1.76 Extra set of Under Armor ankle socks

Luxuries
256 9.03 Panasonic DMC-LX3 camera (W/SD card & battery)
4 0.14 freezer bag
16 0.56 Extra Camera Batteries
46 1.62 Mini Gorrila tripod
6 0.21 microfiber cloth

Misc.
0 0.00 Car Key (no remote) hidden on car

Grams
3940.53
Pounds
8.687381573
Ounces
138.9981051

On Body
EMS zip-off pants
Long Sleeve Lightweight Techwich shirt
Under Armor ankle socks
Asics sneakers
Poly Underwear Briefs
trimmed wrist brace
Trekking poles