Mountain Hardwear Phantom 45

I had the previous version. It was very light and compressed down exceptionally small. It was true to rating for me but it was very narrow at only 59" wide and I found I could compress the down sufficiently without laying on my side to chill my shoulder(s) at times. I sold it because of this reason. Quality was very good.

I stumbled into a stunning deal on a Phantom 45. This weekend will be its inaugural trip (I'll also be using my Big Agnes Fly Creek 1 for the first time). Mild conditions are forecast, but I'll report back.

My bag is last year's style, with the 3/4 length zipper, and hits the scale just shy of 19 oz. I was initially shocked at the paucity of down, although once unstuffed it did loft to about 3". The EN rating for the bag is 32 (men) to 41(women) F; that's a fairly standardized, objective rating, and thus I have great hopes for the bag.

I also have a MH Phantom 32, which is for me warmer than the rated temp if I'm appropriately clad. Last summer it was more bag than I wanted early in the evenings, although it was fine once the temperatures dropped a bit and my metabolism shut down in the wee hours. I like it well enough that I'm considering a sale-priced Phantom 15 to round out the colder weather kit (5-10 deg in the mountains this past winter was a bit much for the augmented P32).

MH bags are well made and no one has damning comments about them, although they seem to be held in slightly less esteem than the higher fill-power Marmot line. However, apart from girth, I don't recall ever reading anything but hearty praise for any WM bag.

I'd love a Summerlite, and had I not found the 45 at such a dynamite price I'd have eventually grabbed one of those and sold the MH32. If you think the Summerlite's too much bag, perhaps the lighter, cheaper and less warm Highlight is an option.

I got to sleep in mine for an hour last night. Then I woke up to snoring and drove home. Seemed plenty warm in 45 degree weather, could move around a bit. I usually just sleep with my arms out of bags and should probably switch to a quilt. Amazingly small, will never put it back in the factory provided stuff sack. I put it in my Ultralamina 15 sack which is probably as heavy as this thing. I have the 3/4 zip model. I don't care so much about full zip, if I am that hot I would probably not need a bag at these temps.

After owning (& returning) a Phantom 32 from REI I feel the entire Mt'n. Hardware line of down bags is overrated on temperature and undfilled with down.

I got a Western Mountaineering Megalite 30 F bag (yes, for $100. more) and have had it 3 summers. I couldn't be happier.

Eric,

How much higher did you feel the temperature rating should be. Theoretically if it had more fill it would be a warmer bag, no? Did you find the quality to be lacking?

I understand that the general consensus is that WM bags are conservatively rated. That brings to light my initial concerns that a Summerlite might just be too much bag in summer conditions at low altitude.

Ths quality of the Phantom 32 down was "supposably" (as Joey on Friends says) 850 fill and it may have been. But the loft was just not there. It was literally 1/2 that of my WM 30 F. bag. The quality of the MH bag's material and construction was otherwise good. BUT MH should have likely rated the bag to 45 F.

When I saw the Megalite in Boulder Colorado at Neptune Mountaineering I realized what a 30 F. bag SHOULD look like. Since I never actually used the Phantom 32 I had no problem getting a full refund from my local REI.

That WM Megalite 30 F. bag has comfortably taken me to 25 F. W/ lightweight poly long johns and a thin knit cap on the PCT. When I consider the price of a night's stay at a motel it puts the cost of the WM bags in perspective. You pays yer money and have a quality bag that lasts at least for a decade.

Eric, I think the comment that you returned the MH bag without actually using it validates that you really don't have experiential data to provide any input. Re-read Richard Nisely's posts to understand that loft is not the only factor in providing warmth. In addition, WM bags do not have sewn through baffles so down can be moved from top to bottom, giving the appearance of high loft around the torso and less around the feet and provide a visual differential that is substantial.

The Phantom 32 has an EN rating of:

EN Rating: T-Limit

28 °F / -2 °C
EN Rating: T-Comfort

37 °F / 3 °C

Spot on to claimed warmth.

David, I have the Phantom 32, and I've used it a bit for at least couple of years now. As far as I can tell, the 32F rating is close. I'm kind of a cold sleeper, and I start feeling a little chilly in it at 32F unless I get everything optimized. However, the original poster asked about the Phantom 45, and I don't think we want to confuse the two products.
–B.G.–

Bob – I did respond in the second post regarding the 45, which I had and used.

The Phantom 45 actually has an EN rating that is better than the 45 degree rating:

EN Rating: T-Limit

32 °F / 0 °C
EN Rating: T-Comfort

41 °F / 5 °C

David, no, it was not your numbers that were confused.

A person can have two sleeping bags, side by side, with the same temperature rating, yet they might look totally different from the visual standpoints of apparent loft and transparency. I think this has been suggested by others, but it may not be universally accepted.
–B.G.–

This is an interesting point that I haven't really thought much about. That being that the loft of a bag is not in a sole direct relationship with that bag's rating. I have no doubt that a WM bag with twice the loft of a MH bag with the same rating would "look" warmer, but having no experience with the MH to justify this leaves me wondering about Eric's original post.

Personally, If I went with the Phantom 45 and found it to be more of a 50 degree bag, it would not be all that disappointing given the conditions I will be using it in. I am really more concerned with build quality and if any other members had issues with say the shell fabric, zipper, or retainment of loft (however little that may be) over time.

Mike, there are some things that you have figured out. When you are using fairly high loft down, the manufacturers use some precise amounts to fill up the baffles. Still, there is a lot of variability in the result. Some bags will vary just on the humidity of the weather. Some manufacturers use more down "on top" and less on the bottom, whereas others use a consistent down packing. Some will cut the inside dimensions to be very snug to get higher weight efficiency, and others will leave it a bit roomy. When you get to bags as light as these are, the outer shell fabric is simply not going to be rugged. Some sew in a full-length zipper, and others use only a 3/4 length zipper. Each has its own methods for manufacturing. Retainment of loft is going to be more a result of your storage methods.
My own personal rule of thumb is that I intend to use a sleeping bag that has a rating at least 5 or 10 degrees better than the weather that I think I will see. That's my safety margin. Sometimes my weather prediction is that far off. Better safe than sorry.
–B.G.–

But doesn't using all caps make it true!?

I still feel WM down bags are (in the same general temp rating) warmer than MH down bags mainly because the MH bags are not using the same amount of 850 fill down as WN does.

Check with other down bag users and you'll find this is likely their take on it too. WM has a far better rep among backpackers than MH when it comes to temp rating accuracy.

I too spent the money on a WM bag. The shell materials and overall workmanship are great. Plus they are made here in the US.

"Plus they [WM] are made here in the US."

I can still remember the first time that I walked in on the cutting room floor and saw all of the loose down floating around. Many moons ago. Prior to then, my idea of down was 500 fill power duck down.

–B.G.–

"Plus they are made here in the US."

Depending on product, that can actually be a minus!!

Yes Ben, But I am talking just about the WM bags, not Fords

Benjamin, we are supposed to be supporting the local economy, not condemning it!

Oh, that's right. The recession is finished now, so we can go back to buying from offshore factories.

–B.G.–

I have a feeling that given WM's commitment to quality, their bags will still be first rate regardless of where they are made. Unless, heaven forbid, they get bought out by Vanity Fair or somesuch…

Ooooh! Designer sleeping bags….that's all we need.