Recommended snake proof gaiters?

Hi Tom

Yeah, know the feeling. :-)

Sue was in the lead along the river bank, stepping up onto big fallen logs and then down off them, travelling at speed. Up onto one log, gave a loud squawk and, I swear, went sideways several feet in total defiance of the laws of gravity before descending, and then continued on at some speed. The large red-bellied black snake on the ground on the other side wondered what all that was about. Me, I went around a bit.

Cheers

"Me, I went around a bit."

I gather this was not one of the few harmless varieties in OZ?

Hi Tom

> I gather this was not one of the few harmless varieties in OZ?

From previous posting:
'For those who don't know the red-belly, it is one of the more venomous snakes in the world, but they are not aggressive (unlike the browns).'
A bite can be fatal.

Cheers

"For those who don't know the red-belly, it is one of the more venomous snakes in the world, but they are not aggressive (unlike the browns)."

Hmmm…

Do you have many encounters like that? How would you deal with the more aggressive brown? I realize that each situation has its unique tactical exigencies, but are there any general tactics? An aggressive snake is a whole different kettle of fish, methinks.

Mostly if you make enough noise most snakes including the browns disappear long before you arrive, but occasionally I do come across a sleepy brown, mostly when they realise you are there they move out of the way fast, but once I did not see a brown until I was about to step on it and it reared up ready to strike me, I jumped back so quickly that I am sure I walked through air, the snake watched me ready to strike until I was out of sight, I was not wearing my gaiters at the time and I nearly needed a change of underwear.

Tony

Hi Tom

> Do you have many encounters like that?
Mid-summer on a sandy river bank you can meet red-bellies every 150 metres or so. They like the sun…

> How would you deal with the more aggressive brown?
We keep our eyes open and we go around them.

Thing is, Australian walkers are used to seeing them, and we are happy to share the bush with them. But do remember that a snake weighs maybe 1 – 2 kg, while I weigh 64 kg. NO snake wants a confrontation with a huge human: give them a chance and a bit of a warning and they will slip quietly out of our way.

Pretty things, too.

Cheers

"NO snake wants a confrontation with a huge human: give them a chance and a bit of a warning and they will slip quietly out of our way."

That's pretty much in line with my more limited experience with the considerably less venomous Western Diamond Back. I was more interested when you mentioned the aggressive Brown. We have a snake here, the Water Moccasin, which has a distinctly bad attitude and presents an entirely different problem, or so I am told by a relative who has good reason to know about such things. Avoiding a snake that is coming at you with ill intent is an entirely different matter. Are there any such critters in Oz?

"I was not wearing my gaiters at the time and I nearly needed a change of underwear."

You denizens of OZ are a doughty lot. I'd be wearing Depends if I went hiking in that kind of snake country. ;}

Tom

> Avoiding a snake that is coming at you with ill intent is an entirely different matter.
> Are there any such critters in Oz?

Oh yeah, plenty in the big cities and especially in the parliaments.

In the bush? No. Man is the top predator here.

Starting around about 50,000 years ago when the Aborigines reached Australia all our large predators (there were many) were wiped out. Huge parts of the continent which had been forested were burnt clear of all scrub and are now desert. What's left of the fauna is very wary of Man, and what's left of the flora is generally what can survive repeated burning. But it is still politically incorrect to suggest that the Aborigines had anything to do with this.

Cheers

"Oh yeah, plenty in the big cities and especially in the parliaments."

Ah. The underlying principle for a new hypothesis that North America and Australia were once part of the same continent.

"But it is still politically incorrect to suggest that the Aborigines had anything to do with this."

See above.

Cheers

I think you are best off to go with a pair of gaiters that are actual “snake gaiters“. While most anything that will cover your leg might work some of the time to block snake fangs, snake gaiters are the only thing that is guaranteed to stop fangs. There are several different brands out there. http://SnakeProofGear.com is a site where they have compiled a list of snake gaiters, snake boots, and snake chaps, as well as other things, so you can see which they prefer.

Any gaiter or material will defend against most (but not all) snakes.

The reason being that for most snakes, the fangs and venom delivery are separate. The fangs are intended the break the skin, while the venom is sprayed on from a gland elsewhere in the mouth. So while the fangs may still go through and puncture the skin, any lightweight material will serve to intercept the venom spray.

Unfortunately, there are a few species where the venom is delivered through Roger's 'hole in the fang' system. But you'd need someone with more knowledge than me to tell you which species.

If rattlers are so fast, then how does a California Mountain King Snake kill 'em?

The King Snake is part Chuck Norris ;)

lol

Anyway, just wanted to bounce this thread to see if anybody has found anything lighter than the TurtleSkin ones.

I think the essential oxymoron about "light snake gaiters" is, well, "essential". Some may be lighter than others, but calling them UL is going to be an exercise in either relativity, or futility.

R Alsborg posted a photo of a particularly cute and friendly snakey-snake. Get bit by that one and you won't need much care, but it would be good to have a cell phone for a few quick calls.

I encounter rattlers pretty often in my local backcountry; I've run into four separate buzzworms in the last 3 months. It's just a part of the experience hiking around here in the spring and early summer.

This was my latest run in.

I've looked into snake gaiters in the past for heavy bush whacking trips but arrived at the conclusion that wearing cordura knee-length gaiters, and just being careful, was a better solution than suffering in a heavy and hot pair of snake gaiters. A couple of friends have snake gaiters and are loathe to ever wear them because of their discomfort. Seems the times when the snakes are out are also the times when wearing snake gaiters is the least comfortable.

"The reason being that for most snakes, the fangs and venom delivery are separate. The fangs are intended the break the skin, while the venom is sprayed on from a gland elsewhere in the mouth. So while the fangs may still go through and puncture the skin, any lightweight material will serve to intercept the venom spray."

Rattle snakes are different. They have true hypodermic fangs. Fang penetration is about 7mm and the venom comes out of a hole at the tip of the fang. I have never touched a rattle snake but I have seen the bones and fangs in display cases. The fangs are very sharp. Rattle snake fangs will grow back if they breakoff. Some rattle snakes are aggressive, others are not. Some rattle, some don't

In Arizona there is a venomus lizzard. It has no fangs and venomus sulliva. When it bites it doesn't let go. Some snakes are the same way. Others have grooved fangs. The venom travels through the groove in the fang to the snike. And then others just spit the venom to blind the victum.

> The reason being that for most snakes, the fangs and venom delivery are separate.
> The fangs are intended the break the skin, while the venom is sprayed on from a
> gland elsewhere in the mouth. So while the fangs may still go through and puncture
> the skin, any lightweight material will serve to intercept the venom spray."

Nice theory, but totally false. Dangerously false.

It ignores two categories of potentially fatal snakes: those with hypodermic fangs for direct injection, and those with channel fangs. Gaiters will normally block most of the venom from channel fangs, but you need to remove the wet fabric carefully. It sticks in my mind that the ones with hypo fangs are usually smaller, and may be physically blocked by a cotton or Cordura canvas gaiter, but I would need to check that one a bit more.

What are called 'spitting cobras' actually eject the venom from their fangs. The exit holes point forwards. The idea that they blow or spit the venom is an old one, but it's wrong. Think waterpistol for the mechanism. A few vipers also can do this.

I was going to say that lizards can be considered 'venomous' because of toxic bacteria on their teeth (go Colgate!), but I find that is wrong. Some lizards are genuinely venomous. The little bearded dragon lizards found around Australia, even in towns, carry a sort of rattlesnake venom. Monitor lizards and iguanas have toxic venoms. The gila monster and beaded lizard of America carry venom. And I have my suspicions about certain politicians too.

Cheers

Roger,

According to herpetologists the rather large South American Fer de Lance pit viper is VERY aggessive. It will attack humans, period.

We have the Mojave Green rattlesnake here around Las Vegas. This nasty, often aggressive critter has the normal rattlesnake hemotoxin venom as well as cobra-like neurotoxin.
What a combo!

Ship a couple of those Mojave Greens down to Roger and let him do some testing.

–B.G.–

Going to resurrect this thread. Yesterday, I stepped within a foot of a Timber Rattler. It recoiled and rattled but didn’t strike. I decided it’s time to get some protection so this discussion is a good one.

I have a pair of OR Crocodiles but not sure if they would work for sure. I might try the Turtleskin Gaiters.

It dawned on me that the best protection would be if you put the gaiters underneath the pants. That way, you have a chance the snake bite might get hung up on the pant itself (which is loose fitting from knee to ankle). This protection is not possible if the pant is pasted directly onto you leg which is what happens when the pant is underneath a gaiter. Wearing the gaiter underneath the pants would protect two layers of protection rather than one.

Does this make sense?

I saw a bunch of people hiking around Carrizo plain with “snake protection” gaiters like this:

http://www.snakeprotection.com/

Took me a little bit to figure out what they were. Not exactly UL.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_snake_bites_in_the_United_States

There are a few deaths (like 0 to 4) per year of people in the wilderness camping or hiking.  Maybe the risk is so low you shouldn’t worry about it.

I can think of three times I’ve walked next to a rattlesnake, it rattled, but that was it

Don’t put your hands and feet where you can’t see them. Take care climbing over logs. Leave them alone.  This has worked for decades and many snake sightings/encounters.

“Maybe the risk is so low you shouldn’t worry about it.”

+1

I’ll go with the feller that said lightweight and snake proof is an oxy-moron, but any decent heavey duty canavas or cordura gaiter gives me peace of mind in summer either on tracks or when bushbashing, Southern Afrika and those huge agressive Mamba I think I’d want femoral height stiff leather

In the Red corner we have Mr Snake, weight 0.5 kg.
And in the Blue corner we have Mr Human, weight 70+ kg, armed.
Equal battle, yes?

We think they are cute:

Australian Alpine Copperhead, venomous, possibly fatal.

Not sure, maybe Brown Snake, venomous, fatal

The people who get bitten are young males who try to kill them. Darwin.

Cheers