Soto OD-1R Micro Regulator Stove

I have on but I have only used it in the summer. Worked great lit on the first try. Light and good range of flame but I really only used it to boil water. So far so good.

The marketing from the shops which says the regulator lets the stove work in colder conditions relative to other upright canister stoves is total cr@p. I am not saying they are lying in their teeth, but I am saying that they haven't a clue what they are talking about.

Please note: the trouble stems from the shops' misunderstanding or misinterpreting what SOTO has claimed. SOTO has a carefully-worded claim which (just) avoids that issue.

That said, the SOTO is a nicely made (in Japan!) stove, but the regulator in the stove does NOTHING for the fact that the contents of a canister can freeze up at sub-zero temperatures. There is virtually no magic in the use of a regulator against the use of a needle valve. Both just regulate the gas flow through the jet.

Yes, there is a review in the pipeline, which explains all this carefully.

Cheers

I guess the regulator means that you do not have to frequently adjust the control valve to compensate for the reduction in gas pressure as the canister cools down when used.

Soto's own marketing shows the stove boiling 1 litre in 4 min at 23F (-5C). I can believe that, but then so will any canister mounted stove – provided there is sufficient propane left in the canister. To operate at 23F you need at least 10% propane in the canister which means the canister needs to be at least 50% full (assuming 30% propane in a full canister). When the canister is less than 50% full there will be so little propane left that there will be insufficient pressure at 23F and then the regulator will make no difference at all: the stove (any stove) will simply stop working.

Hi Stuart

> I guess the regulator means that you do not have to frequently adjust the
> control valve to compensate for the reduction in gas pressure as the
> canister cools down when used.

Correct – but who uses a canister stove for that length of time in an application where that they need to adjust the valve?

If I am boiling water than I have the stove on medium (not high – that's wasteful), but who cares if the power rating varies slightly? I don't.

If I am doing a very gentle simmer (like actually cooking dinner), the the rate of gas consumption is so low that the canister is unlikely to change in temperature or pressure very much.

The regulator idea is a good one for some other application, but I don't think it is all that relevant to a walker's needs.

Cheers

Roger: I read about this stove in the latest issue of Backpacker mag and thought the same thing. I'm waiting for someone to throw the BS flag.

Roger,
Thanks for the comments and the upcoming review. The Utube video was very persuasive – seemed like the Rosetta stone had been found.

I added the Soto stove to my collection when it first came out not because of the regulator, but because it is very light, compact, and has a piezo, which I always like in a stove. After a few uses in 20F weather, I think that it will replace my lovely Primus 3273 titanium as my go-to trail stove. The only advantage the Primus has is that those big titanium pot stands serve as a very effective windscreen–and of course the wooden control knob.

I am interested in seeing what Roger has to say about boil times for the Soto, but my rough guess is that my Soto does better than my Pocket Rocket but not as well as my EtaPower with the dedicated pot.

Why buy a regulator stove when you can be The Regulator? When winter camping I just chuck the canister in the sleeping bag so it'll be nice and warm in the morninig, which regulates the temperature of the LP and thus pressurizes the canister. Then I pair it with my Snowpeak litemax and place the whole thing on an 8X8 piece of plastic corrugated stock that you see all over as yard signs to provide insulation and stability on the snow. Works with sterling results. I like being The Regulator!

Here's the bs flag, but it seems most of you were waving it pretty well already. So, regulated or not, how can I burn that which doesn't vaporize? N-butane boils at 31F, iso-butane boils at 11F, propane boils at -43F. Is Soto telling me that through regulation they're somehow magically going to blend it all together, regardless of temperature, and vaporize my entire fuel mixture at a lower temperature than physics will allow? It's a miracle. It's good to know that when I want to cook at -10F, simply by using an OD-1R, I'm going to at least have the luxury of hauling out canisters that I've used to the last drop. I might even leave the Onmi-fuel at home next time and save myself some weight. Or maybe I could just get used to not eating hot food. And what's up with the Piezo? Hello? I'm in the mountains, and it's cold. It's a cool looking and light little stove that I'm sure many people will buy for that very reason, but my Litemax is still lighter, and I have this little thing on the side that already does a great job of making the fire go up and down when it can do what it's supposed to, assuming the fuel in the canister can help it out by doing something besides just sloshing enticingly around. Sorry folks, I'm not at all convinced.

For all of that, the SOTO OD-1R is a nicely made stove. The box says 'Made in Japan', and it looks like that sort of good quality. As a SUMMER upright stove it would be a reasonable choice (behind the Snow peak GST-100, to be sure). Just ignore ALL the marketing spin about the regulator.

Oh – and alter how you adjust the needle valve – there is NO firm off position! Takes a little getting used to.

Cheers

"N-butane boils at 31F, iso-butane boils at 11F, propane boils at -43F. Is Soto telling me that through regulation they're somehow magically going to blend it all together…"

If you have a blend of say n-Butane and propane, then the mixture will boil at a temperature intermediate between the two boiling points of the pure liquids. The actual boiling point depends on the ratio (molar fraction) of each. That is just basic chemistry. Do not fall for the myth that 'only the propane boils at less than 11F' or whatever.

This applies to all gas mixtures, affecting all gas stoves, and the regulator makes not a hoot of difference in this regard

> This applies to all gas mixtures, affecting all gas stoves, and the regulator
> makes not a hoot of difference in this regard.

Exactly!

Cheers

Nothing like starting out with a bang. Allow me to backtrack. Hi! I actually came across this forum in my search for info on this stove, which still remains somewhat of an enigma. Stuart, I want to thank you for the clarification. Can you shed any light on how phase equilibrium/separation factors into the consideration of temperature and pressure within the canister? Regardless, I am getting the feeling that, despite some of the technicalities, we share some reservations on the claims being made. Soto is very vague, and I can't seem to find much actual data to support their claims of enhanced cold weather efficiency. Regulation has never been my concern, carrying the lightest stove and the ability to use as close to 100% of my fuel, has. Can it do that? Wouldn't it be more a function of choosing the right proprietary fuel ratios? If I can leave my expedition stove at home, sign me up. It's just that I like to eat, and dying because I made a poorly informed gear selection is an outcome my kids take serious issue with. Most of what I've been able to find have been the reviews at REI in which the regulator seemed questionable (at least on start up), the Piezo, a non-starter, and the biggest rave was how the stove used all the fuel at only marginally freezing temperatures. Hit me with the science, then explain it to me like a layman. Roger, for what it's worth, I agree. It's a well made, quality little stove. Thanks guys.

> carrying the lightest stove and the ability to use as close to 100% of my fuel, has. Can it do that?

Nope

> Wouldn't it be more a function of choosing the right proprietary fuel ratios?

Yup.
As is well known, the gas canister pressure reduces as its contents is used up, because the propane component is used faster than the butane component. The effect of the changing ratio of the fuel mixture is clearly described by the changing boiling point of the mixture. The graph below shows this effect for three different mixtures. Note: a non-regulator stove needs the canister contents to be at least 5C above the fuel mixture boiling point for there to be sufficient pressure to operate.

A regulator can only reduce the gas pressure from a canister, it can do nothing to affect the point at which the stove stops working with fuel left in the canister.
To use 100% of the fuel at low temps, you need a remote canister stove with the canister used inverted.

I'm really enjoying the information you're providing. I didn't want to go off into the use of remotes and liquid feeding by inversion initially because I wanted to run with this piggybacked, as most people would be using it. Any ideas on how effective the regulator would be with such a set up, at the normally lower flow rates? Your point is extremely well taken, and your expertise much appreciated. Would it be possible to provide me a link to where you found that graph? My point is in trying to figure out if I can find a substitute for any of my liquid fuel stoves, and whether I'm just as well off with my Litemax and remote stand in lower temps. I'm intrigued by the 5C discrepancy between regulated and non-regulated stoves, but in your opinion, is it enough to warrant abandoning one in favor of another? I must say, technical considerations compel me to learn, and this conversation is no exception.

Scotland, huh? Ever test anything from Rab?

Aha! Never mind the link, I clicked on your name and your page came up. Not only am I learning something about fuels and stoves, I'm learning to navigate the site. I guess it's all about the journey.

Hi Phil

What you haven't told us are the temperatures at which you want to use the stove. If you are talking summer-time, no worries. Winter – go remote.

If you subscribe to BPL you will find a whole range of technical articles on canister stoves (and alcohol stoves too). These will answer most questions.

Cheers

> I'm intrigued by the 5C discrepancy between regulated and non-regulated stoves

I didn't make myself clear: a normal non-regulated stove needs the canister contents to be at least 5C above the fuel mixture boiling point.
I don't have an equivalent figure for the Soto, it could be similar and it won't be any less.

You found my micro-site, but take a look at Rogers FAQ site – it is really comprehensive

And yes, I have a Rab down jacket :-)

Hi Roger,

Summer would be too easy, and the Snow Peak/ MSR IsoPro combo is the standard for most of my travel during that time. Never a problem. What I'm trying to find is something that can serve as an intermediate stove for late Fall, early Spring, when it's usually too cold for the canister, and not quite cold enough to haul the Omni-fuel and white gas. I'm primarily a backpacker, but I do a fair amount of mountaineering and some mixed ice in the Sierras/Cascades when well below freezing and altitudes above 10k are the norm. I've never had any stove problems to speak of, primarily because I've learned the "tricks" by trial and error and experimentation, but when someone comes along and tells me they have a better way, I try to be receptive…if I can substantiate it. This forum has done more in that regard during the course of a couple days than Soto ever has since the stove hit the shelves.

So where's you FAQ page? Magazines are usually not my thing, but I'm impressed by what I'm finding here. Any idea when that review you promised earlier is going to be available?

And Stuart- I thought you might have a piece or two from Rab, being that they did much of their testing in the Highlands. I have both a Latok and a Latok Alpine, and I'll take them over any of my Arcteryx stuff any day.

Hi Phil

For cold conditions you can use an upright if you put the canister in a bowl of cool water. That will serve as a heat source above the BP of Butane (-0.5 C). The Snow Peak GST-100 is my Gold Standard for uprights.

But for reliability in very cold conditions a remote canister stove is recommended. There are plenty on the market now. (eg Coleman Fyrestorm, Primus Express Spider) My suggestion is to forget all the liquid fuel (white gas and kero) stoves henceforth – they are all obsolete imho.

Subscribe and read our stoves articles – there is a whole pile of them there, from Product Reviews to very technical. Yeah, I'm biased – I wrote a lot of them!

My FAQ is at http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/ It is not linked to BPL, but you might find it of some use.

SOTO Review: soon. I have done the final on-screen proof-reading. Maybe next week or the week after? Up to the Production Editor.

Cheers

Hi Roger,

The Primus looks to be a hybrid between a reconfigured expedition stove stand and the burner from an ETA Power EF. I have the MF model, and when I'm cooking for a group (or in general) it's my favorite stove functionally. I'll be both subscribing and poring over your articles over the next few days. Looking forward to that review, and I'll be sure to come back with any questions. Again, I want to thank you and Stuart for taking the time to shed some light on so many aspects of what I was seeking, and for setting the little ball that is my mind, rolling. You guys are stellar.

phil

For those that were interested in the stove, looks like the review is up on BPL's front page.

Just thought I'd post this for those interested. I removed and weighed the piezo ignitor components on my OD-1R. There are three parts I removed – the sheet metal cover, the small screw holding the sheet metal cover on, and the piezo assembly with wire. All total, they weighed .2oz.

Scott

This has probably been said better elsewhere by people who know more, but…

I was a bit wary of the negative comments about the Soto Micro Regulator as they seemed theoretical only, not based on side-by-side trials comparing the Regulator against needle-valve type stoves. Product reviews on the REI website include testimonials from users who did perform such trials, using a freezer and/or ice baths to simulate cold weather conditions, and reporting superior performance by the Micro Regulator. Testimonials cannot of course overturn the laws of physics, but since scientific theories are themselves highly susceptible to misunderstanding and misapplication, experimentation is needed to prove one has got the theory right.

The debate centers on the distinguishing feature of the stove, the gas pressure regulator. Here is a link to a pretty decent article explaining the basics of pressure regulators in plain language:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure_regulator

A pressure regulator restricts supply pressure to a level that is safe or usable for the appliance. Pressure regulators cannot increase pressure, only reduce it. I assume the reason propane appliances have built-in pressure regulators is that propane is more highly pressurized than mixed fuels. Propane evidently requires greater pressurization to remain liquid than does the mixed fuel, hence a stouter canister and a pressure regulated stove for propane.

What then would a pressure regulator do for a mixed fuel stove? About all I can think of is to provide a more uniform throttle response through the life of the canister. This is of some value, perhaps yielding more efficient use of fuel by not allowing the stove to be oversupplied, perhaps giving better simmer control, especially when the canister is fresh. Maybe having a regulated fuel supply would allow burner design to be optimized, instead of a compromise design that works, at least in some fashion, regardless of wide-ranging input pressures.

But I can’t see how a pressure regulator would help where help is most needed, when tank pressure is low due to cold weather. Also, wouldn’t the regulator result in fuel being trapped in the tank once the pressure drops to a certain point, unless some sort of low-pressure bypass mechanism is in place?

I wish Soto’s regulated stove fit on a propane bottle. Last time I checked, a pound of Primus Power Fuel was $10.00, vs. $2.37 for a Coleman propane canister. For this kind of price difference, I’d gladly tote the extra canister weight, especially since propane is a better fuel and far more available than mixed fuel canisters.