Topic

3-season Footwear in Snow

Viewing 8 posts - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
John Papini BPL Member
PostedMar 2, 2016 at 9:52 am

Hello everybody,

This last summer I finally made the plunge from hiking boots to trail runners (I’m usually an early adopter, so I’m not sure what happened here…) and they worked GREAT even in the rugged terrain of the Adirondack Mountains.

I’m now finalizing my preparations for my thru-hike of the PCT this year (departing in about a month!), and I’ve got a few questions about wearing my trail runners through the snowy portions of the trail (the Sierras specifically, but the other mountains in SoCal as well, and in WA of course).

I usually wear my trail runners with 1/4 cushion Darn Tough Socks, as they cover my ankle but don’t go any higher than that – saving me 14 grams over their regular-cut Micro Crew socks. I don’t wear and wasn’t planning on wearing gaiters because I find that enough dirt gets in my shoe through the mesh uppers. I also wear pants while hiking, so that offers some protection from debris coming into my shoe from the top. I might be singing a different tune if I wore shorts.

In the Northern Winters, I wear boots with a heavier Darn Tough sock (I don’t know the model, exactly, but I know that they are warmer, with more cushion, and weigh 104 grams as opposed to the 64 grams of my 1/4 and 78 grams of the Micro Crew).

I’ve always worn boots in the snow, having grown up in the North. At the same time, snow=winter where I’m from, and obviously I’ll be hiking through snow in the summer time, so I recognize this is a different animal.

My questions are as follows:

  1. What do I need to add to my “footwear system” when I get to the snowy portions of the trail (other than microspikes or crampons, a separate question, below)? Do I need to be wearing some kind of vapor barrier between my trail runner and my sock to keep my feet warm while trudging through the snow, even if it is a plastic grocery bag? Do I need to layer my socks?
  2. Should I switch out my 1/4 Darn Toughs for my heavier cushioned, “winter” Darn Toughs when I reach the snow? Or, on the contrary, should I keep my 1/4 so that they will dry faster after they inevitably get wet?
  3. This could be a separate thread in and of itself, but I’m still wavering between microspikes and crampons (Kahtoola brand for both). I’ve heard that microspikes sometimes “roll,” but I’ve also heard that they can work better with trail runners, and that crampons can be a pain because you can’t wear them on a diverse range of surfaces (in other words, people with crampons complain that they have to put them on and take them off with more frequency than people wearing microspikes who just trudge across snow and dirt and other trail surfaces – not road, obviously).
  4. Finally, two pairs of socks, or three? I’ve heard differing opinions on this point. Keep in mind that I have a separate pair of Possumdown socks devoted to sleeping and I’m not counting those (so really, it’s 3 pairs (2 + Possumdown) or 4 (3 + Possumdown).

Thanks for help with my last minute planning!

John

Lester Moore BPL Member
PostedMar 2, 2016 at 10:20 am

A lot depends on the snow conditions in June in the Sierras. Kahtoola microspikes are excellent and stay on pretty well if sized properly. You can also rig a strap over the top of the shoes to help keep the microspikes in place, but I’ve never needed to do this yet. Microspikes have limitations, but a few practice hikes in winter will let you work out their properties. They are best for moderate and gentle slopes with flat footed technique, because you cannot front point or side step on hard snow with them like you can with crampons.

Depending on snow conditions, you may want an ice ax, or if you have snow climbing experience, a BD Whippet ski pole for self arrest. If you’re unaccustomed to snow travel with a pack, then I would error on the side of being conservative (ice ax) if it’s a snowy June. Folks who have been through the Sierras in June should have more input for you on this topic.

Trail runners will get soaked in snow, but you can change socks after descending from a pass. In really wet consistent snow pack I’ve used neoprene socks – I like how warm the neoprene socks are, though they take up more room in the shoe, they stink if not dried out, and they weight more too. If you have some snow in the Adirondacks, you can test out some options you get from this thread before you leave for your big hike. Definitely practice self arrest skills before your trip if you plan to take an ax or other self arrest device.

John Papini BPL Member
PostedMar 2, 2016 at 10:53 am

Thanks, Lester. I don’t have much experience backpacking in the snow – we snowshoe up here, but day trips only, and then I wear boots – so all of this information is helpful.

One follow-up question for you: I was planning on swapping out one of my trekking poles for a whippet during the snowy sections of the trail because I was advised that many snow novices are too inexperienced/lazy to recognize when they should remove their ice axes from their packs and hold onto them, and an ice axe on your pack is useless! A whippet, by contrast, is always in-hand available for use.

I interpret your advice to be the opposite – that only experienced snow-backpackers should opt for using the whippet. What’s your reasoning here? Fortunately the only gear I have left to purchase is my snow gear (microspikes/crampons, whippet), bear canister, battery/phone case, and possibly a SPOT or InReach, so I can still opt for an ice axe instead of the whippet if I’ve been miscalculating.

Also, as far as neoprene socks are concerned – can anybody else speak to these (or other VBL’s) specifically for use on the PCT?

Thanks!

Alex Wallace BPL Member
PostedMar 2, 2016 at 10:57 am

For early season Sierra snow travel I’ve had good luck by just adding a pair of Rocky Gore-tex “waterproof” socks over my normally worn 1/4 merino/synthetic socks inside a pair of trail runners.

I’ve been using Kahtoola Microspikes for a couple of years now and have experienced the “roll” when contouring. Nothing too bad, but when they wear out I’ll most likely replace them with the Hillsound Trail Crampon.

Have fun!

Ralph Burgess BPL Member
PostedMar 2, 2016 at 12:23 pm

After some research, I have just picked up some Inov-8 Roclite 286 boots for just this purpose – walking on packed snow or slushy mixed terrain with or without crampons in moderate spring temperatures.   I haven’t used them on snow yet myself, but I love the design – so light and comfortable that I could run in them.  You can find numerous reviews and recommendations for them.   The last has a generous forefoot, plenty of room for your toes, but a narrower heel.   On my feet, that feels great – in a largish size to allow for 2 pairs of socks there is no hint of heel slippage.

Just one reflection on some of the comments above:   you will never see me the combo microspikes and ice axe!   I would always add full crampons before adding ice axe — first priority is don’t fall in the first place;  self-arrest is a last resort.    And if you’re on such steep slopes that you need an ice axe for self belay, then again you really need crampons.

James holden BPL Member
PostedMar 2, 2016 at 12:39 pm

in prolonged snow and slushy conditions some type of waterproof barrier is highly recommended

its not so much as keeping your feet dry, as theyll likely get a bit damp even with goretex socks

its about not having your socks and shoes behave like a sieve an pump cold water/slush in and out with every step leading to very cold feet

put a goretex sock over a thin synthetic liner sock, youll want to put these on your chest when sleeping to keep em dry … any extra insulation should go on top, but realistically you wont fit more than a liner +WPB sock in a regular sized trail runner

you can also use cheap properly sized plastic bags for this as well …

at night make sure to allow your feet to breath in fresh warm fuzzy socks and keep em dry … or you may get trench foot

;)

 

 

Lester Moore BPL Member
PostedMar 2, 2016 at 12:49 pm

John – you’re right when you say “many snow novices are too inexperienced/lazy to recognize when they should remove their ice axes from their packs”. I’ve seen this repeatedly when hiking with folks who are less experienced.

An ax provides more aggressive and positive-feeling self arrest, plus it’s ideal for self belay – both reasons a novice might experience more consistent results with an ax versus a Whippet IMHO. I consider the Whippet a lighter weight option for users who are comfortable with the snow conditions. But if I was pushing my comfort level with conditions, I’d want a nice sturdy ax in my hand. The big caveat is practice. You’re better off using a Whippet if you’ve practiced self arrest with one than you are using an ax without any practice at all.

Brad Rogers BPL Member
PostedMar 2, 2016 at 12:56 pm

I live in the southeast so I may not be the best person to respond but when I hike in snow I just use my normal non GTX trail runners.  Yes my shoes and socks are wet and possibly frozen the next morning (If I know its going to be bad I will put then in a plastic bag and in my quilt/bag, but putting on frozen socks/shoes only sucks for a few minutes and I found as long as I am moving I can get my feet warm and keep them warm.  I have hiked all day postholing in a foot and a half of snow (one of my hardest days backpacking ever) and postholed in 10-12 inches of snow a dozen times all with breathable trail runners.  Just make sure you have dry socks (and plastic bags) when you get to camp.  This is my opinion only.  My only snow experience out west were some few very minor snowfields on the JMT in Sept 2011 and when it dumped 10″ of snow on me in WRR in 2014.  It snowed a couple of times on me in Alaska last year but never more than an inch or two.  My feet however were soaked for 11 days straight (except at night in camp) and were fine.

I am planning a trip to Alaska next year with 5 glacier crossings and am trying to decide between Microspikes or Kahtoola K-10 “walking crampons”.  I think Microspikes would be OK but I tend to be a heel striker and I tend to think the K-10s might be safer for that.

Viewing 8 posts - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
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